Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
The ..... slap occurred 2 years later at the 2010 end of season test, and continued for another 2 years.
Joined Oct 2015
329 Posts | 196+
UK
Just as well I read back through this thread. I was about to post the exact same link.
I have to say, once again Mamola is absolutely spot on.
Every second Vale continues to ride at a competitive level is a continued bitchslap to Stoner and all of Australia
A shame for your narrative that he didn't and will never ride at a competitive level on a Ducati.
Joined Jun 2008
1K Posts | 365+
USA
You forget that Stoner only won once on the Ducati, in Ducatis great advantage year. I notice Stoner fans point to his one win on a Ducati and summarily dismiss Rossi's first Championship win on the Yamaha. He singlehandedly ended Yamahas drought and beat the Hondas, thus showing that it was not about the bike, it was about the rider. He rode the Yamaha to several more championships and developed a bike that others could win on.
In the meantime Stoner took a bike that showed relative potential and proceeded to develop it into an unrideable heap of carbon and steel
A lot of words which do not include the 23 wins by Stoner on a Ducati as opposed to a big fat zero in the win column on that bike for Rossi. You ironically posted an incident from the race which convinced Rossi that he should go to Ducati, in the erroneous belief he had beaten Stoner despite Stoner riding the superior bike. How did that work out?
Rossi winning the 11th of 17 riders' titles won by Yamaha riders was one of his more impressive titles (all titles are impressive, including all of his) but hardly compares with the only title win by what was then a tiny operation on a bike on which no other rider won a dry race.
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I stated the Ducati had relative potential. Ducati were making strides pre Stoner. In the last year of the 990 Capirossi was getting results and in the hunt. Sete ended that with the front brake melee. Bayliss won a one off race on it.
Stoner took development in the wrong direction. If ducati had less fortitude and resilience ( like Kawi or Suzuki ),Stoner could have killed their whole race department. The irony is, the most resilient factory in the paddock has hitched their wagon to the biggest quitter
Absolute nonsense. The carbon fibre bike was well in train before Stoner (who was originally hired for 1 year while they waited for Melandri) ever got to Ducati, and in its first iteration in 2009 was more than competitive in his hands when he was healthy. We all know what happened, the tyres with which it was co-designed became unavailable, and then Ducati quit on him when he became ill on the basis of Marlboro advertising executive's assessment of his health issues and tried in his absence to make the 2009 carbon fibre bike into a Yamaha for whichever of JL and Rossi they managed to sign.
Despite that 2010 bike being such a pig, Stoner won 3 of the last 6 races of 2010 on it, and finished 2nd in the race 2 days prior to the post-season test at the same circuit in which he was immediately quicker than the long term HRC rider while Rossi couldn't get anywhere near Stoner's Ducati times, quite reminiscent of Melandri's first encounter with the purportedly invincible 2007 bike.
Very happy to acknowledge Rossi has been exceptionally good for longer than anyone else has ever managed at the very top level, but comparisons with Stoner when either was on a Ducati are nothing but embarrassing for your side of the divide, and LS08 specifically is never referred to by Rossi now, possibly because he at least has more insight than many of his fans and realises how much Stoner was out-performing the bike, and possibly also because by subsequent rulings including the subsequent MM/VR Corkscrew incident he would have to give up the place he maintained.
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Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Joined Nov 2015
872 Posts | 420+
Stratosphere
And you my friend are lacking when it comes to developing new things with which to troll the forum. If Stoner who whooped Rossi's ... on the bike that ruined the careers of so many talented riders is "bad as a developer", that would make Rossi the equivalent of and industrial sabotager during his tenure at Ducati since he never won diddley and the Rossi era Ducati suffered like a 50 cent whore on a Saturday night. The whole myth of riders "developing" bikes is a tired old bopper trope that was disproven and put to bed ages ago. Riders give feedback, engineers "develop". Riders like Hayden and Spencer have complained about Honda ignoring rider input because the Japanese techs were too enamored of their engineering skills to take seriously suggestions from the riders. Ducati was well known for both their hubris and their even greater capacity to disregard rider input as well as their insistence on rehashing bad design ideas simply because the ideas were, in their minds, essential to the Ducati identity. If not for input from Audi and Gigi, the tunnel-visioned designers at Ducati would still be trying to "refine" a carbon fiber, trellis framed bike.
In all honesty I think Rossi contributes more than most, but particularly at Honda engineers rule, and at Ducati the Ducati "identity" also outweighed many considerations, as you say, and some Marlboro hack's notions of machismo apparently were also influential.
It is a very old argument about a rider now retired for 3 seasons, but Stoner was never ever going to be racing at 37, and it is remarkable that Rossi is still racing so competitively. Stoner was very definitely better at riding Ducati 800 bikes though.
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Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
I wasn't trying to troll. I was just making a basic observation about an ex racer. He was a .... developer for whatever reason. Ducati shittier after year one. Honda shittier after year one. Since you chose to bring Rossi into a conversation that has nothing to do with him, how was Rossi at developing the yamaha? I seem to have forgotten. But I don't care about that or how .... he was on ducati. Stoners track record is what it is. Even if honda and ducati not listening to the feedback of riders was actually more than something stupid people say they still use the data collected. Or do they just ask Steven Hawking or someone? Please tell me, where on earth they get their data from?
Again, a very old argument but 1 bike developed with. Stoner as s lead rider was the original version of the 2012 Honda 1000 bike, on which he totally dominated testing before the late weight change, and the bike was subsequently further affected by a tyre change.
Let's not forget the Stoner developed Honda that the Kentucky hillbilly had to ride around in last place for years. I recall that bike supposedly "crushed" in testing as well
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Without aborting your laps , I don't see how you can possibly stop another rider from getting a tow who is determined to follow you. I don't think Vinales purposely aided his future teammate to his own detriment. I do find it funny that the party involved has a history of bad mouthing lesser riders who uses the tactic, kind of hypocritical huh.Of course we all know that Rossi is the king of hypocrisy and is admitting that he is now one of those lesser talents who needs the help of the faster guys to boost his starting position.
Joined May 2014
159 Posts | 43+
S. Florida
honda shittier after year one. are you kidding me stoner won the world championship in his first year and came in third after a bad crash at indy on the same bike a year later. after that mm won back to back championships on the same bike again how on earth can you claim the honda got shittier after stoner got there are you on crack
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