Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
How were/are the Honda riders OTHER than Stoner and MM doing? That's how you notice if the bike is POS or not... could anyone else ride the damn thing?
How were/are the Honda riders OTHER than Stoner and MM doing? That's how you notice if the bike is POS or not... could anyone else ride the damn thing?
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Bad post dude.
Kropo has said Stoner's feedback was as accurate as it can come, and said there were issues with an engine before anything even showed up in the data.
Ducati was deadset on going down a developmental dead end with the carbon fiber bike. Stoner left Honda because they weren't listening to him regarding the current issues with the RCV.
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Joined May 2014
159 Posts | 43+
S. Florida
they were riding a cbr i could have bought at my dealer lol thats how bad the open class bikes were. stoner was there one year, the bikes were tremendously under powered. so the 4 years of dominance by stoner mm and danny placing didnt count but where an old washed up hayden on a fireblade vs motogp machines matter. come on dude you have to try harder than this.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
2011: Honda riders in P1, P3, and P4
2012: Honda riders in P2 and P3
2013: Honda riders in P1 and P3
2014: Honda riders in P1 and P4
Riders finished in the top 4 all of those years. The RCV was a great bike for 4 years straight before they ...... up with the 2015 RCV.
Joined May 2014
159 Posts | 43+
S. Florida
must really suck to be a horrible test rider yet be faster than every single ducati rider without riding a moto gp bike for 2 year
MotoGP Feature - Sepang MotoGP Test: Casey Stoner: Ducati?s fastest engineer
summary when was the last time you were on a bike 2014 and your still faster than all of us lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh06cTcthdg
MotoGP Feature - Sepang MotoGP Test: Casey Stoner: Ducati?s fastest engineer
summary when was the last time you were on a bike 2014 and your still faster than all of us lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh06cTcthdg
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Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Joined May 2014
159 Posts | 43+
S. Florida
point that you missed because youre a rossi drone is that stoner is developing the desmo and is faster than both factory riders on it. So its not the bike its the riders. And stoners track record is pretty good.
the man retired big deal now he test rides that was his choice do i agree with it no but its his life no ours.
the man retired big deal now he test rides that was his choice do i agree with it no but its his life no ours.
Joined May 2014
159 Posts | 43+
S. Florida
point that you missed because youre a rossi drone is that stoner is developing the desmo and is faster than both factory riders on it. So its not the bike its the riders. And stoners track record is pretty good.
the man retired big deal now he test rides that was his choice do i agree with it no but its his life no ours.
the man retired big deal now he test rides that was his choice do i agree with it no but its his life no ours.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
The problem with your line of thinking is that it makes the egregious assumption that the rider is the one who designs the bike, or even has the final say on design.
There's a large history in motor racing of teams simply getting it colossally wrong with design in spite of having riders or drivers who give great feedback, and having good vehicles the year before. McLaren in F1 totally ...... up in 2013 by redesigning the MP4/27 into the MP4/28 instead of doing what amounted to a MP4/27 B spec car. The MP4/27 was a good enough car to win the world title, but was done in by a few mechanical failures and DNFs. McLaren also never actually understood why the car was so fast, and went in a slightly different direction in 2013, only to find themselves well down the path to mediocrity. They still haven't recovered from this.
Designers tend to win out over pilots in what direction the machine goes. Stoner was no exception to this. To simply say the bikes got worse is to assume a correlation that doesn't exist, in particular because no such thing happened at Honda. So all you are left with is the Ducati example that doesn't hold up under closer inspection.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
No arguments from me over this JP. I was just pointing out something I noticed a long way back about his input/feedback.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Got it. So he as usual is faster than everyone else on the bike. So what did I miss? I would prefer my test rider to make a bike the actual racers can ride fast but thats just my silly way of thinking. I wish we could have gotten to see Marc and Casey on the same bike but Casey robbed us of that because he's a big puss.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
I agree with you, but how much the manufacturer listens to the rider probably varies between the teams. It seems Yamaha listened to rider input to decide which direction to go while Ducati gave priority to what the designers wanted.
I find it interesting how the first time Valentino rode the Ducati he said he knew he was in trouble. You know how bad the bike had to be for him to lose all hope for the bike after the first ride!? I've read that Rossi can ride a bike and notice multiple problems, but he will prioritize which problem needs to be addressed first and only mention that problem to the team when he returns to the pits. It's not until the team fixes the first problem that he will reveal the next one. So I'm just imagining him on the Ducati the first time counting up all the problems in his head and basically just giving up... like ".... the fix for this bike is a scrapyard."
What you 2 time fanatics can never understand is that Stoner was not very good as a racer. If he was, we wouldn't be discussing his career in the past tense. Racers never quit. Whenever 2 time was pressured he folded like your mothers legs at the sound of a zipper going down. Vale pressured him so much he quit at an unheard of age.
The video I posted of Laguna is a great example. Vale raced him like a man and the pressure forced him into an amateur mistake. 2 time never like to race anyone, and the few times he had to, he always complained about it afterwords. He complained in pre race, practice, qualifying, race and post race. I bet even the fish are tired of hearing him complain now.
He only won championships on the best bikes that were developed by others. When he won races it was rarely not a runaway. He knew if he got tied up he didnt have the balls or skill to race head to head. Look on youtube for videos of him exchanging. You won't find many.
There's no shame in this Marky2time. He cant help what he is. We have a name for men who aren't men. We call them women. Sure they get ......, bitchslapped and ...... in the face like you are getting now, but overall some people seem to like them
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Joined May 2014
159 Posts | 43+
S. Florida
what nonsense rossi drone. do you put on your rossi feet pajamas on, with your rossi sheets and make believe the edge of the bed is a rear set and kneel down like rossi does. stoner retired. only man to ever win a title on the ducati. rossi couldnt even out do nicky on that bike. probably set it back 3 years in development because he couldnt ride the bike nor can he ride any bike that isnt perfect for him. he doesnt develop a bike, he steals JLO settings now. what your boy should do retire. as he has no shot with everything being equal to ever win again. no bike advantages no tire advantages cant cheat as much as he did. when this guy goes it will be great for real racing fans and motogp.
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
He did finish each year above Nicky in the standings so that statement is not true, about as accurate as the rest of the post really.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Who do you think was getting more support from the team, Rossi or Hayden?
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I was annoyed to see Stoner's reaction at Mugello. My thought was, if you're gonna show up, shake your head in disapproval, then get back in the game or get out of the limelight. I can appreciate him wanting to help test and develop the Ducati, but for .... sake don't tell us it can win when clearly it cannot UNLESS he's on it. That's like Kevin Schwantz saying the Suzuki could win if he were in his prime racing it. Well thank you for that useless information.
I honestly think the "development" acclaim for any rider is both overstated and misunderstood. Rossi and Stoner are supposed to be polar opposites: Rossi the greatest developer Stoner the worst developer ever; but reality supports one narrative over the other in such contrast that I don't know how it can be tacitly debated. Similar to the "moaner/whiner" attribute, I think Rossi’s 2015 whine/moan reached such cosmic proportions that it skewed the very definition of the words to describe it. Scientists invent words to describe such vast distances in space to lightyears because our common unit of mere miles/kilometers are just too inadequate. What word can we invent to describe the McCarthyist Salem witch hunt turned Tonya Harding attack Rossi engaged in BECAUSE he was losing grasp of a 'competition' for which he has been the beneficiary of a skewed playing field?!
What mystical spell are we under where we can debate the legitimacy of a sport where the League's 'commissioner'/CEO acted as Rossi's SPORT AGENT, negotiating a return to Yamaha?
We have become desensitized to it because of the brazen act, but for .... sake Rossi sat there during multiple press conferences over several weeks accusing his fellow competitors and rivals of conspiring to...race him too hard. It parallels the concept of "development" in the sense that we witnessed thee most epic of development failures at Ducati under Rossi, this 2 year long failure should forevermore seal the discussion of supposed "development" prowess, relegated to a laughable time like the once notion the earth was flat. Sure we believed it at one time, then humans discovered something called 'truth'.
After Rossi’s stint at Ducati, having EVERY POSSIBLE SAY in the matter of 'development' with the bankroll and overwhelming patronage by those who listened to Rossi as if it were the WORD of GOD exposed Rossi. Can you think of any other situation with the same magnitude in the whole history of motosport, let alone MotoGP?
Contrast this to the input of other riders, particularly Stoner's feedback, received by the team with skepticism. It's true, he rides the bike with unique ability, how does this mean his feedback is ....? Stoner is uniquely fast therefore his feedback is worthless? I'd like to know what evidence and logic is there to support the claim Stoner can't develop a machine because he is faster than others. So far the claim seems to surround two themes: 1. Stoner is so much faster than others, therefore his feedback can't possibly be useful. (Yet apparently Rossi's feedback was gold when he for an era apparently seemed so much better than everyone, except nobody noticed he had better tires). 2. The bikes Stoner rode were not developed positively for others, therefore he is not a good developer. (Except for the fact he was the 4th choice for Ducati and had little development say in the matter, which was practically entirely Loris Capirossi's task.)
Let's test this logic, shall we:
But but but, Rossi is the greatest "developer", because....he developed the RC211V for everybody, a bike nobody other than Rossi won a title. But but but Rossi developed the M1 into a winner, except he didn't develop it, you can thank Alex Barros for that. And when Rossi did finally have developed input not even his teammate Colin Edwards could manage a win on it. So how does this logic hold for Stoner but not Rossi? Not to mention the continuity of the real WINNING INGREDIENT--SNS.
But Stoner development the GP07 into a dog. First of all the GP07 machine was already a dog, easily the worst of the manufacturers in 2007 (except maybe Kawasaki). Ducati's LEAD DEVELOPER was 7th in the championship, Capiross! Both factory Suzuki riders finished higher than the lead Ducati developer, including the M1 and two RC212V riders...yup, even the Pedrocycle was better than Ducati. Stoner was already on a piece of .... machine, he just rode it like an 'alien' (and nobody since has been able to, not even the "GOAT"). So this idea that Stoner developed a bike into .... is ......... How can you develop .... into ....? That's not a feat or a trick or a development process, that just means .... is ..... Even if we use the same standard as Rossi, then we must conclude Stoner's development input then produced an RC213V that won 3 of 4 championships, as a rider and test rider. And the very thing that has kept the machine from wining in 2015 was the very issue Casey Stoner pointed to as a major problem, which wasn't listened to by HRC.
Again, tires fool people into making erroneous assumptions about Rossi’s ability to ride and to "develop". So let me get this straight, the 08 and onwards Ducati loses its tire relationship with Bridgestone on the 'WHINING and MOANING' of Rossi's threats to QUIT, shifting the balance of power to Yamaha (actually ONLY ONE YAMAHA, the one with BRIDGESTONES) and this is somehow proof Rossi can ride and develop a bike? So why wasn't this great "developer" working with Michelin to "develop" a tire that could complete with Bridgestone? Ah, what lessons have we learned after Michelin no longer could provide exclusively suited tires to Rossi?
The only thing Rossi has DEVELOPED is a cozy motorhome relationship with the most powerful man in MotoGP, the CEO of the sport! His very own Jerry Maguire. We have a situation where Carmelo Ezpeleta-- "league" CEO acted as Jerry Maguire to Valentino Rossi and we're going to debate whether or not Rossi is a great developer? Perhaps we should also debate how Hulk Hogan would have won a bunch of gold medals in the Olympics because he was the undisputed king of Wrestling Mania?
Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)
I honestly think the "development" acclaim for any rider is both overstated and misunderstood. Rossi and Stoner are supposed to be polar opposites: Rossi the greatest developer Stoner the worst developer ever; but reality supports one narrative over the other in such contrast that I don't know how it can be tacitly debated. Similar to the "moaner/whiner" attribute, I think Rossi’s 2015 whine/moan reached such cosmic proportions that it skewed the very definition of the words to describe it. Scientists invent words to describe such vast distances in space to lightyears because our common unit of mere miles/kilometers are just too inadequate. What word can we invent to describe the McCarthyist Salem witch hunt turned Tonya Harding attack Rossi engaged in BECAUSE he was losing grasp of a 'competition' for which he has been the beneficiary of a skewed playing field?!
What mystical spell are we under where we can debate the legitimacy of a sport where the League's 'commissioner'/CEO acted as Rossi's SPORT AGENT, negotiating a return to Yamaha?
We have become desensitized to it because of the brazen act, but for .... sake Rossi sat there during multiple press conferences over several weeks accusing his fellow competitors and rivals of conspiring to...race him too hard. It parallels the concept of "development" in the sense that we witnessed thee most epic of development failures at Ducati under Rossi, this 2 year long failure should forevermore seal the discussion of supposed "development" prowess, relegated to a laughable time like the once notion the earth was flat. Sure we believed it at one time, then humans discovered something called 'truth'.
After Rossi’s stint at Ducati, having EVERY POSSIBLE SAY in the matter of 'development' with the bankroll and overwhelming patronage by those who listened to Rossi as if it were the WORD of GOD exposed Rossi. Can you think of any other situation with the same magnitude in the whole history of motosport, let alone MotoGP?
Contrast this to the input of other riders, particularly Stoner's feedback, received by the team with skepticism. It's true, he rides the bike with unique ability, how does this mean his feedback is ....? Stoner is uniquely fast therefore his feedback is worthless? I'd like to know what evidence and logic is there to support the claim Stoner can't develop a machine because he is faster than others. So far the claim seems to surround two themes: 1. Stoner is so much faster than others, therefore his feedback can't possibly be useful. (Yet apparently Rossi's feedback was gold when he for an era apparently seemed so much better than everyone, except nobody noticed he had better tires). 2. The bikes Stoner rode were not developed positively for others, therefore he is not a good developer. (Except for the fact he was the 4th choice for Ducati and had little development say in the matter, which was practically entirely Loris Capirossi's task.)
Let's test this logic, shall we:
But but but, Rossi is the greatest "developer", because....he developed the RC211V for everybody, a bike nobody other than Rossi won a title. But but but Rossi developed the M1 into a winner, except he didn't develop it, you can thank Alex Barros for that. And when Rossi did finally have developed input not even his teammate Colin Edwards could manage a win on it. So how does this logic hold for Stoner but not Rossi? Not to mention the continuity of the real WINNING INGREDIENT--SNS.
But Stoner development the GP07 into a dog. First of all the GP07 machine was already a dog, easily the worst of the manufacturers in 2007 (except maybe Kawasaki). Ducati's LEAD DEVELOPER was 7th in the championship, Capiross! Both factory Suzuki riders finished higher than the lead Ducati developer, including the M1 and two RC212V riders...yup, even the Pedrocycle was better than Ducati. Stoner was already on a piece of .... machine, he just rode it like an 'alien' (and nobody since has been able to, not even the "GOAT"). So this idea that Stoner developed a bike into .... is ......... How can you develop .... into ....? That's not a feat or a trick or a development process, that just means .... is ..... Even if we use the same standard as Rossi, then we must conclude Stoner's development input then produced an RC213V that won 3 of 4 championships, as a rider and test rider. And the very thing that has kept the machine from wining in 2015 was the very issue Casey Stoner pointed to as a major problem, which wasn't listened to by HRC.
Again, tires fool people into making erroneous assumptions about Rossi’s ability to ride and to "develop". So let me get this straight, the 08 and onwards Ducati loses its tire relationship with Bridgestone on the 'WHINING and MOANING' of Rossi's threats to QUIT, shifting the balance of power to Yamaha (actually ONLY ONE YAMAHA, the one with BRIDGESTONES) and this is somehow proof Rossi can ride and develop a bike? So why wasn't this great "developer" working with Michelin to "develop" a tire that could complete with Bridgestone? Ah, what lessons have we learned after Michelin no longer could provide exclusively suited tires to Rossi?
The only thing Rossi has DEVELOPED is a cozy motorhome relationship with the most powerful man in MotoGP, the CEO of the sport! His very own Jerry Maguire. We have a situation where Carmelo Ezpeleta-- "league" CEO acted as Jerry Maguire to Valentino Rossi and we're going to debate whether or not Rossi is a great developer? Perhaps we should also debate how Hulk Hogan would have won a bunch of gold medals in the Olympics because he was the undisputed king of Wrestling Mania?
Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)
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