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Suzuki unhappy with Vinalez helping Rossi

Rossi accused Marquez of not racing as fast as he actually could in order to favour Lorenzo over himself by remaining more than he really needed in close contact with him and making him waste time (in PI and especially in Sepang); he didn't accuse Marquez of "racing him too hard". That's the actual nature of the accusation, no matter what you think of it.

I know it's just one point over a giant post you wrote and we probably should't even keep talking about end of '15, but it's important to specify; cause what you're using by saying that is a pure rhetorical artifice.
 
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Who do you think was getting more support from the team, Rossi or Hayden?

Rossi of course, Hayden had more experience on it though. Both of them had negligible impact on it to be honest , joining the list of people not called Casey who couldn't ride the thing.
 
Rossi accused Marquez of not racing as fast as he actually could in order to favour Lorenzo over himself by remaining more than he really needed in close contact with him and making him waste time (in PI and especially in Sepang); he didn't accuse Marquez of "racing him too hard". That's the actual nature of the accusation, no matter what you think of it.

I know it's just one point over a giant post you wrote and we probably should't even keep talking about end of '15, but it's important to specify; cause what you're using by saying that is a pure rhetorical artifice.

Rossi accused Marquez of racing him too hard. You can try and split hairs to sever your narrative and wedge Rossi's accusation to fit some kind of justification, but they were in fact RACING on the track. Rossi saying he was toying with him is something apparently you believe. Rossi could have raced him back and gone clear in front but Rossi CHOSE to engage Marquez in RACING. Rossi has no way of knowing what Marquez pace 'should have been'. But all his fans believe him to be god and therefore must know what all other riders are capable of on their respective machines.

Again, Rossi accused Marquez of racing him too hard. Whether you want to call it going too slow or passing cleanly too many times or whatever, the point of Rossi accusation was that because Marquez did not get out of his way therefore Marc was cheating.
 
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Rossi accused Marquez of not racing as fast as he actually could in order to favour Lorenzo over himself by remaining more than he really needed in close contact with him and making him waste time (in PI and especially in Sepang); he didn't accuse Marquez of "racing him too hard". That's the actual nature of the accusation, no matter what you think of it.

I know it's just one point over a giant post you wrote and we probably should't even keep talking about end of '15, but it's important to specify; cause what you're using by saying that is a pure rhetorical artifice.

Whatever motivation or capability MM may have had at Sepang he raced Rossi legally, which is pretty much his job description; all else is speculative.

The accusations about PI which set the scene for Sepang are just straight out ludicrous however. Again, the claim is that MM while his team-mate who won the previous and next races finished 5th determined the finishing order from 2nd to 4th and didn't give his best effort in a race he won. It also wasn't 2014 when he won 10 races on the bounce, although he crashed out of the lead of the PI 2014 race even in that dominant year, but rather 2015 when he had crashed out of 6 previous races pushing too hard early in races.
 
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I was annoyed to see Stoner's reaction at Mugello. My thought was, if you're gonna show up, shake your head in disapproval, then get back in the game or get out of the limelight. I can appreciate him wanting to help test and develop the Ducati, but for .... sake don't tell us it can win when clearly it cannot UNLESS he's on it. That's like Kevin Schwantz saying the Suzuki could win if he were in his prime racing it. Well thank you for that useless information.

I honestly think the "development" acclaim for any rider is both overstated and misunderstood. Rossi and Stoner are supposed to be polar opposites: Rossi the greatest developer Stoner the worst developer ever; but reality supports one narrative over the other in such contrast that I don't know how it can be tacitly debated. Similar to the "moaner/whiner" attribute, I think Rossi’s 2015 whine/moan reached such cosmic proportions that it skewed the very definition of the words to describe it. Scientists invent words to describe such vast distances in space to lightyears because our common unit of mere miles/kilometers are just too inadequate. What word can we invent to describe the McCarthyist Salem witch hunt turned Tonya Harding attack Rossi engaged in BECAUSE he was losing grasp of a 'competition' for which he has been the beneficiary of a skewed playing field?!

What mystical spell are we under where we can debate the legitimacy of a sport where the League's 'commissioner'/CEO acted as Rossi's SPORT AGENT, negotiating a return to Yamaha?

We have become desensitized to it because of the brazen act, but for .... sake Rossi sat there during multiple press conferences over several weeks accusing his fellow competitors and rivals of conspiring to...race him too hard. It parallels the concept of "development" in the sense that we witnessed thee most epic of development failures at Ducati under Rossi, this 2 year long failure should forevermore seal the discussion of supposed "development" prowess, relegated to a laughable time like the once notion the earth was flat. Sure we believed it at one time, then humans discovered something called 'truth'.

After Rossi’s stint at Ducati, having EVERY POSSIBLE SAY in the matter of 'development' with the bankroll and overwhelming patronage by those who listened to Rossi as if it were the WORD of GOD exposed Rossi. Can you think of any other situation with the same magnitude in the whole history of motosport, let alone MotoGP?

Contrast this to the input of other riders, particularly Stoner's feedback, received by the team with skepticism. It's true, he rides the bike with unique ability, how does this mean his feedback is ....? Stoner is uniquely fast therefore his feedback is worthless? I'd like to know what evidence and logic is there to support the claim Stoner can't develop a machine because he is faster than others. So far the claim seems to surround two themes: 1. Stoner is so much faster than others, therefore his feedback can't possibly be useful. (Yet apparently Rossi's feedback was gold when he for an era apparently seemed so much better than everyone, except nobody noticed he had better tires). 2. The bikes Stoner rode were not developed positively for others, therefore he is not a good developer. (Except for the fact he was the 4th choice for Ducati and had little development say in the matter, which was practically entirely Loris Capirossi's task.)

Let's test this logic, shall we:

But but but, Rossi is the greatest "developer", because....he developed the RC211V for everybody, a bike nobody other than Rossi won a title. But but but Rossi developed the M1 into a winner, except he didn't develop it, you can thank Alex Barros for that. And when Rossi did finally have developed input not even his teammate Colin Edwards could manage a win on it. So how does this logic hold for Stoner but not Rossi? Not to mention the continuity of the real WINNING INGREDIENT--SNS.

But Stoner development the GP07 into a dog. First of all the GP07 machine was already a dog, easily the worst of the manufacturers in 2007 (except maybe Kawasaki). Ducati's LEAD DEVELOPER was 7th in the championship, Capiross! Both factory Suzuki riders finished higher than the lead Ducati developer, including the M1 and two RC212V riders...yup, even the Pedrocycle was better than Ducati. Stoner was already on a piece of .... machine, he just rode it like an 'alien' (and nobody since has been able to, not even the "GOAT"). So this idea that Stoner developed a bike into .... is ......... How can you develop .... into ....? That's not a feat or a trick or a development process, that just means .... is ..... Even if we use the same standard as Rossi, then we must conclude Stoner's development input then produced an RC213V that won 3 of 4 championships, as a rider and test rider. And the very thing that has kept the machine from wining in 2015 was the very issue Casey Stoner pointed to as a major problem, which wasn't listened to by HRC.

Again, tires fool people into making erroneous assumptions about Rossi’s ability to ride and to "develop". So let me get this straight, the 08 and onwards Ducati loses its tire relationship with Bridgestone on the 'WHINING and MOANING' of Rossi's threats to QUIT, shifting the balance of power to Yamaha (actually ONLY ONE YAMAHA, the one with BRIDGESTONES) and this is somehow proof Rossi can ride and develop a bike? So why wasn't this great "developer" working with Michelin to "develop" a tire that could complete with Bridgestone? Ah, what lessons have we learned after Michelin no longer could provide exclusively suited tires to Rossi?

The only thing Rossi has DEVELOPED is a cozy motorhome relationship with the most powerful man in MotoGP, the CEO of the sport! His very own Jerry Maguire. We have a situation where Carmelo Ezpeleta-- "league" CEO acted as Jerry Maguire to Valentino Rossi and we're going to debate whether or not Rossi is a great developer? Perhaps we should also debate how Hulk Hogan would have won a bunch of gold medals in the Olympics because he was the undisputed king of Wrestling Mania?

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

I think one could ascertain that a tire ran over your head at a young age. It is unfortunate that this tire didn't manage to crush your typing fingers in the process.
How is it that the entire paddock, fanbase and journalists have missed this implausible and asinine conspiracy that you and your 5 ....... syncopants spout as truth. Well 6 now. Ive just added Veronica Corningstone aka markny. Stay classy New York
The proof is in the trophies. All 9 of them. There is no way someone could dupe the GP world with fradulent wins for 9 years.
I bet if you joined the special olympics you couldn't win 9 trophies. Well, unless they added mustache growing and typing to the events. Even if they did add typing,l some ...... pounding his head on the keyboard would make more sense then you.
 
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what nonsense rossi drone. do you put on your rossi feet pajamas on, with your rossi sheets and make believe the edge of the bed is a rear set and kneel down like rossi does. stoner retired. only man to ever win a title on the ducati. rossi couldnt even out do nicky on that bike. probably set it back 3 years in development because he couldnt ride the bike nor can he ride any bike that isnt perfect for him. he doesnt develop a bike, he steals JLO settings now. what your boy should do retire. as he has no shot with everything being equal to ever win again. no bike advantages no tire advantages cant cheat as much as he did. when this guy goes it will be great for real racing fans and motogp.

Cheat?
Thats a new one Veronica. When did Vale cheat?
 
Oh jeez you serious right now do you not know his history you're truly a drone. No matter what is said it doesn't matter look it up.


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Oh jeez you serious right now do you not know his history you're truly a drone. No matter what is said it doesn't matter look it up.


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A drone that just dropped a smart bomb on you. Boo.....m!
Stay focused Veronica. You stated Valentino Rossi cheated. When did this happen and where was it reported?
 
It's in this thread ....... read about it. His team in the middle of the night took a scooter to a fresh track that he felt he needed more grip. Got caught got docked 6 seconds. By the rules his manuover at Laguna Seca was illegal. His first 5 titles he had better tires than everybody else and he threatened to quit if he didn't get Bridgestone because stoner was smoking him, while everyone else was on Michelin you really don't know your boys true history do you. I know it's like finding out there is no Santa clause


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A drone that just dropped a smart bomb on you. Boo.....m!
Stay focused Veronica. You stated Valentino Rossi cheated. When did this happen and where was it reported?

It was reported right here (and only here) by our keyboard king the venerable Jumblie.
 
It's in this thread ....... read about it. His team in the middle of the night took a scooter to a fresh track that he felt he needed more grip. Got caught got docked 6 seconds. By the rules his manuover at Laguna Seca was illegal. His first 5 titles he had better tires than everybody else and he threatened to quit if he didn't get Bridgestone because stoner was smoking him, while everyone else was on Michelin you really don't know your boys true history do you. I know it's like finding out there is no Santa clause


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The most ridiculous and overzealous punishment for doing what every other team should have done for their rider. Oh but hang on, Dorna favour Vale don't they ?
 
The most ridiculous and overzealous punishment for doing what every other team should have done for their rider. Oh but hang on, Dorna favour Vale don't they ?

Dorna does favor him.

Who do you think got him onto the Bridgestones for 2008 when he threatened to quit.

Christ your slow on the uptake.
 
Dorna does favor him.

Who do you think got him onto the Bridgestones for 2008 when he threatened to quit.

Christ your slow on the uptake.

The bike still needed riding:rolleyes: you can only piss with the .... you've got !
 
You can't fix stupid don't bother he is a drone. You can't reason with them. They take the fact vaccine. Immune to facts


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It's in this thread ....... read about it. His team in the middle of the night took a scooter to a fresh track that he felt he needed more grip. Got caught got docked 6 seconds. By the rules his manuover at Laguna Seca was illegal. His first 5 titles he had better tires than everybody else and he threatened to quit if he didn't get Bridgestone because stoner was smoking him, while everyone else was on Michelin you really don't know your boys true history do you. I know it's like finding out there is no Santa clause


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Ohhh. Wanting Bridgestones were illegal?

He was caught cheating on a scooter?

His Michelin tires were illegal all those years?

I still don't understand when and where he was cheating
 
Dorna does favor him.

Who do you think got him onto the Bridgestones for 2008 when he threatened to quit.

Christ your slow on the uptake.

Someone should let you know that we're talking about GP and not F1. Your so confused you think your 85 civic, with an airplane tail duct taped to the trunk, is a real F1 car.
 

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