Stoner Sandbagging

Kropotkin said:

That's a decent summary of the situation. The tires are distributed at random, and the randomness of that process is monitored by someone outside Bridgestone. However, the tires that are distributed are the ones that Bridgestone choose to develop, and their decisions are based on 1: Feedback from all of the riders, and 2: the feedback they choose to listen to. That may favor one rider over another.

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Right now all the publicity is around Casey, the links between Honda, a very dominant Japanese company and Bridgestone, likewise a very dominant Japanese company.



All tyre theories really now should be considered the opposite of what they were in 2008 after the great tyre war of words.



Bridgestone will now listen first and foremost to the Honda team, and Valentino will suffer as Casey did with the Japanification (another new word) of the the tyres as happened in 2008. The links between Ducati and Bridgestone were not strong enough in 2008 to stop the single tyre manufacturer, or the change in tyres to Ducati's detriment.



Nothing will change but the person who is on the receiving end of the tyres less suited to the bike. The Bridgestone company would have (IMO) a business plan based around the OEM supply of its tyres to domestically produced (but exported) Japanese vehicle, believe it of not the only two companies that suit it's ongoing profitability in that area are Suzuki and Honda, Ducati is a niche market and Yamaha makes no real vehicles (part from bikes) and Personal Watercraft do not have tyres.



Ducati is a niche market and really of little benefit to Bridgestone. What is important is the historical context. They were the "foot in the door" to motogp.



Once established and good old invisible hands (supply and demand) kicked in and everyone wanted them. Job done, modify the product to meet the larger market (Japanese products) and kick the business plan into gear.



In short Stoner (et al on Honda) aren't sandbagging, but it's only going to get better for them. The Bridgestone will not be modified to the benefit of Rossi as that stage of the business plan is gone. His brand (Ducati) did their job and Bridgestone have moved on.



Rossi would now be better doing what Stoner offered in 2008/2009, and that is campaign for multiple tyre manufacturers and get Michelin to build a Ducati tyre. This failed for Casey and Ducati at that time as they were well and truly used by Bridgestone.



I personally would be all for it, Rossi would challenge (but he will not on the Bridgestone tyres) and the tyres would get better, provide different results on different tracks and so on and so forth. As much as I am a Rossi non fan and a Casey fan the season is shaping up to be a one brand whitewash. We may as well call it the Honda cup and be done.









Edit: I cite Povol from the Gresini thread - note the Honda predictions....

povol said:

Yep, there will still be a pecking order of who gets upgrades first. Right now, the top of the order has yet to be determined, even though Casey has a miniscule advantage. After the fist 3-4 races, the order will take its place.My guess is



Stoner

Pedro

Simoncelli

Dovi

Aoyama

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Jumkie said:

If he is "sandbagging" everybody is .......

First of all, welcome to the forum, hope you're not a one post pony. Second, I don't believe for one minute the man is sandbagging, it just doesn't seem to jive with what we've seen and read of him as spectators. So I agree with you that its unlikely. But yeah, that would be something if come Qatar he pull out a second of a lap on everybody. But then again, I thought he was pretty quick last year, then disaster struck and "gifted" the victory to Rossi. We will see.

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Thanks. Been looking for a good forum to discuss MGP and think I have found it.



As to the tire conspiracy I always thought that it was possible based on Edwards experience being VR's team mate. Edwards always flew in testing and qualified decent but always had that dreaded 'lack of grip' come race day. But anything is possible and in testing you get 4 days to set up a bike and during a race weekend you get 3-4 hours........

ptk50 said:

Groaty, as the target of your misguided zeal, rabid response, the rest of your crap - and considering your subsequent pseudo intellectualI defense - I forgive you and nominate you wholeheartedly for the Moron of the Month award - all of March 2011 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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This is the kind of glassy eyed stupidity that gets Rossi fans a bad name. You were not my target, & you still think that you were despite my "pseudo-intellectual defense", which by use of that phrase you clearly didn't understand. Although you are proving stiefel's point about martyrdom which is more than a little ironic.



Stick your misplaced forgiveness right up your arse.

Jumkie said:

Ah yes, thanks Kropo. Well I counted 3 thanks to the tube. Were there anymore "unfortunate" flats?

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There were a lot more unfortunate flats- mainly Pirellis , but not at the track. Our riding group went to PI on some backroads to avoid the cops, one of these being through Mitta Mitta (for the aussies). On a 25km stretch of gravel road, 6 bikes had 9 punctures, all but one (a Metzler racetec) were Pirellis. Two Multistradas had their rear Pirellis punctured! So the lesson here is Multistradas have the wrong tyres on them, and Pirellis are fragile...............even on bitumen??

BarryMachine said:

BOPPER FIGHT!!!!





( thats like a chic fight only with more hissing and scratching, makeup will be smeared for sure here!! )

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Enough with the bopper thing. It is getting tired apart from anything else.

Sandbagging?





Nodody is sandbagging.

michaelm said:

Enough with the bopper thing. It is getting tired apart from anything else.

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.... that, i literally laughed out loud and scared the dog out of his nap. Funniest thing ive seen on this board in a while



Barry, that was perfect!

povol said:

Considering Michelins ability to make and deliver tires in one day that suited a certain bike and rider, its silly to think that Bridgestone could not develope, and produce a tire in a month that suited a certain bike and rider.

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Saturday night tires were minor modifications of the compound, that required having your factories near and that's why Michlin could do that for the European races and Bridgestone couldn't.



Tire design is a different matter and regards mainly the body or structure of the tire, which cannot change easily, whereas the compound is routinely changed for each track. The body of the tire is where rider preferences can matter The most -- for instance we know Rossi and Stoner prefer a hard body, irrespective of the compound, hard or soft, that is applied on it according to circumstances.

michaelm said:

Enough with the bopper thing. It is getting tired apart from anything else.

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You Bopper!

stiefel said:

You Bopper!

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I am considering buying yellow sunglasses at least, still having no requirement despite my advanced age for goggles, google or other visual aids.



The anti-rossi stuff at present is starting to annoy me nearly as much as the anti-stoner, anti-hayden etc stuff when I joined the forum.

michaelm said:

The anti-rossi stuff at present is starting to annoy me nearly as much as the anti-stoner, anti-hayden etc stuff when I joined the forum.

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Just enjoy the irony that the term 'bopper' was made popular by the member who abandons objectivity as much as anyone when his favorite rider is concerned. Besides that, yes it's an annoyance.

J4rn0 said:

Saturday night tires were minor modifications of the compound, that required having your factories near and that's why Michlin could do that for the European races and Bridgestone couldn't.



Tire design is a different matter and regards mainly the body or structure of the tire, which cannot change easily, whereas the compound is routinely changed for each track. The body of the tire is where rider preferences can matter The most -- for instance we know Rossi and Stoner prefer a hard body, irrespective of the compound, hard or soft, that is applied on it according to circumstances.

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The hard body was in place because of Stoner in 07, all they would have had to do was fine tune it to preference. Tire companies of that size have the formula of every type tire that has been dreamed of, waiting to be dusted off and thrown into production.Besides,it wasnt a bang bang decision that was made right before the 08 season. The decision was official in October of 07. That gave them close to six months, plenty of time to have made a whole new tire if thats what was needed.

J4rn0 said:

Saturday night tires were minor modifications of the compound, that required having your factories near and that's why Michlin could do that for the European races and Bridgestone couldn't.



Tire design is a different matter and regards mainly the body or structure of the tire, which cannot change easily, whereas the compound is routinely changed for each track. The body of the tire is where rider preferences can matter The most -- for instance we know Rossi and Stoner prefer a hard body, irrespective of the compound, hard or soft, that is applied on it according to circumstances.

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Unless you're a tire tech or a GP rider - I don't think you can really say you know how minor or major

the modifications were. Realistically... given what we do know about the high cost of a even a standard

tire used for a GP bike - it's reasonable to speculate that the cost of custom modification requiring the

use of a very sophisticated technology to create just a handful of tires for one rider - has to have been

very high. That coupled with the cost of overnighting them to places on the other side of the planet

makes for a great deal of expense. If the difference between the SNS and those

given to riders at the bottom of the food chain was so piffling - why the hell

would they bother? The drama over the SNS is not something that was given birth amongst the fans.

It was an issue that the riders themselves felt very strongly about. Moreover - at the MGP level - it's

a constant that even the tiniest advantage - gained at great expense - can make the difference between

a podium and 5th place. You habitually downplay the importance of anything

anybody says. You've become quite predictable really. I think you're one of the good guys - but really you do seem to have this patronizing way of dismissing people's thoughts as if you were some great bearded wise man in the sky (Arabiatta's job

actually) and the rest of us were all just bunch of hyper children with overactive imaginations.

Andy & Nuts, great posts. Bunny, haha, good story.



Kesh, voice of reason.



Ptk50, good reply.



Goat, i gotcha sucka.

Goatboy said:

This is the kind of glassy eyed stupidity that gets Rossi fans a bad name. You were not my target, & you still think that you were despite my "pseudo-intellectual defense", which by use of that phrase you clearly didn't understand. Although you are proving stiefel's point about martyrdom which is more than a little ironic.



Stick your misplaced forgiveness right up your arse.

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Ah Groady - you still don't get it - this is a forum about MotoGP - if you want to join in at the big boy's table you will need to mature. Come on show us you can do it and actually contribute something constructive about the thread - about MotoGP - just because you're Moron of the Month doesn't mean you can't stop being a prick - give it a try and maybe someone will actually converse with you - well maybe

Moron of the Month! Groaty

Keshav said:

Unless you're a tire tech or a GP rider - I don't think you can really say you know how minor or major

the modifications were. Realistically... given what we do know about the high cost of a even a standard

tire used for a GP bike - it's reasonable to speculate that the cost of custom modification requiring the

use of a very sophisticated technology to create just a handful of tires for one rider - has to have been

very high. That coupled with the cost of overnighting them to places on the other side of the planet

makes for a great deal of expense. If the difference between the SNS and those

given to riders at the bottom of the food chain was so piffling - why the hell

would they bother? The drama over the SNS is not something that was given birth amongst the fans.

It was an issue that the riders themselves felt very strongly about. Moreover - at the MGP level - it's

a constant that even the tiniest advantage - gained at great expense - can make the difference between

a podium and 5th place. You habitually downplay the importance of anything

anybody says. You've become quite predictable really. I think you're one of the good guys - but really you do seem to have this patronizing way of dismissing people's thoughts as if you were some great bearded wise man in the sky (Arabiatta's job

actually) and the rest of us were all just bunch of hyper children with overactive imaginations.

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Kesh, things must be read in context, there I was answering a conspiracy theory saying that in 2008 Bridgestone hurriedly designed a tire to Rossi's specs, after reluctingly agreeing to supply him a few weeks earlier. It's difficult to answer that kind of nonsense without risking a dismissive tone...

J4rn0 said:

Kesh, things must be read in context, there I was answering a conspiracy theory saying that in 2008 Bridgestone hurriedly designed a tire to Rossi's specs, after reluctingly agreeing to supply him a few weeks earlier. It's difficult to answer that kind of nonsense without risking a dismissive tone...

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But there was no hurry, like i said, the announcement was made in Oct 07, the season didnt start till march 08. They had as much time to fine tune a tire, as the teams had to fine tune next years bike.