I personally dont think that Stoner would have said that Rossi follows him around trying to get a tow, i think this his quote may have been manipulated by the press (would like to see/hear the question/answer). If thats not the case then Stoner needs to think first, speak later because saying that is just ridiculous, none of the top 6 riders try to get a tow, well not as long as i have been watching anyway.
Estoril MotoGP: Rossi and Stoner clash again
- Thread starter rossiofsky
- Start date
To be honest, getting a tow is a fair part of a race and practice/ qualifying session so why is there a problem with it? Not that I think Rossi was getting a tow.
Praise be to God Casey..........
He is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy
Because as you and others often tell us, practice is one thing race day is another.
I agree with all who say that being towed in practice creates a 'false' time and has often resulted in riders being further up a grid than they would otherwise be, and at times we have seen the results where the 'false' rider has caused or impacted upon anothers race to that riders detriment.
Within a race, receiving a tow is racecraft is it not?
Yes I fully recognise your point that it is hypocrisy to complain of a rider seeking a tow, only to seek one yourself, but I say practice and race create different scenarios and therefore what may be acceptable/unacceptable in practice may be the exact opposite within the tactical situation that makes a race.
Again I must stress that I have not seen the incident so will not and have not said that CS was right to claim (as has been alleged) that VR was receiving a tow
Gaz
Did he actually say anything specific about a tow? Just as a question, I am not saying he did or didn't, it all sank into a non-specific miasma of back and forth bitching for me which, while in theory not particularly edifying for either, like tom I found entertaining overall .
I'm not actually sure, i think it was more to do with the slightly condescending 'little dog' comments, i just cant imagine him saying that stuff, certainly not in that context. I'm the same though, people on here read something in the press which then gets commented on which inevitably turns into a .... storm!
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
+1
riders complaining about each other and pissing each other off at times isn't a new thing anyways.if anything,i welcome a good rivalry.as long as the riders don't hurt each other its all good fun and good for the sport.
the only annoying part about it is how people make a huge deal out of it
Where the F did this come from. You and your dipshit mate Talpa can't read for ..... When you can show me where I said that either of these riders are or were not good enough for MotoGP i will kiss your arse. You ignorant dicks just like to make .... up to further your fantasy.
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
whoa take it easy.don't waste your energy on that. no sane person here takes that stuff serious so don't bother to get upset because of them
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
This seems pretty straight forward, not that they wouldn't be in motogp, but if they were there they wouldn't be competative. I completely disagree with this post btw
Thank you. It is ok that you disagree but I put this to you. I think the current crop of riders are different to the previous generations. Now days they run at 100% from when the lights go out. If you go back to even 2005 this was not the style. As it was the Rossi era all you have to do is look at how Rossi raced. He would sit in 2nd or 3rd and just wait for 2-3 laps to go and then drop the hammer and win by a couple of seconds. The same applied to the 500 days when they would play a bit of cat and mouse until the end when it would be a contest of who had saved a bit and had the pace to make a gap in the last few laps.
I think it is hard to say unequivocally that all those guys would be able to run the pace that these new guys run from lap one till the last lap. It goes back to the post you made that suggested that no one can afford to get caught up in a early lap battle because it means they can not win because the front guys are gone and can not be caught. It is different now and there are guys still in the field that raced well under the previous strategy yet can not even come close to competing against the Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa's. I have huge respect for Schwantz, Doohan and Bayliss and would never question there ability but I think that the pace now is extraordinary.
Another example is Euro MX compared to AMA MX. in the Euro races they ease into the race. In the AMA it is on from the drop of the gate and often the Euro's can not adjust to this type of strategy.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
J4rn0 - Whilst I completely respect your knowledge and historical perspective on the sport and enjoy your contributions to the forum immensely I think lately you have become quite uncharacteristically emotive and as a result your recent posts are sometimes lacking your traditional insight - maybe Jumkies pushed your buttons one too many times
Simoncelli and Pedrosa rode brilliantly this past weekend and well done to them but I am sure you understand that different riders have their own strengths and weaknesses and similarly these traits will affect their competitive abilities at certain tracks. You seem to be implying that Stoner is somehow dropping behind these other riders..... I personally believe they are all top tier riders and they will at different times outperform each other due to these differences in riding style.
I agree with you that his unique skills did make a big difference on the Duke but Casey hasn't as yet had a rider of this caliber as a team mate so I hardly expected him to be 1 second a lap faster than these guys on the Honda - particularly Pedrosa.....but I fully expect him to once again be exceptionally fast when he returns to tracks that do suit his particular style....and Dani and Simo will most likely again struggle to stay in touch with him.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
J4rn0 - Whilst I completely respect your knowledge and historical perspective on the sport and enjoy your contributions to the forum immensely I think lately you have become quite uncharacteristically emotive and as a result your recent posts are sometimes lacking your traditional insight - maybe Jumkies pushed your buttons one too many times
Simoncelli and Pedrosa rode brilliantly this past weekend and well done to them but I am sure you understand that different riders have their own strengths and weaknesses and similarly these traits will affect their competitive abilities at certain tracks. You seem to be implying that Stoner is somehow dropping behind these other riders..... I personally believe they are all top tier riders and they will at different times outperform each other due to these differences in riding style.
I agree with you that his unique skills did make a big difference on the Duke but Casey hasn't as yet had a rider of this caliber as a team mate so I hardly expected him to be 1 second a lap faster than these guys on the Honda - particularly Pedrosa.....but I fully expect him to once again be exceptionally fast when he returns to tracks that do suit his particular style....and Dani and Simo will most likely again struggle to stay in touch with him.
Top post
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
J4rn0 - Whilst I completely respect your knowledge and historical perspective on the sport and enjoy your contributions to the forum immensely I think lately you have become quite uncharacteristically emotive and as a result your recent posts are sometimes lacking your traditional insight - maybe Jumkies pushed your buttons one too many times
Simoncelli and Pedrosa rode brilliantly this past weekend and well done to them but I am sure you understand that different riders have their own strengths and weaknesses and similarly these traits will affect their competitive abilities at certain tracks. You seem to be implying that Stoner is somehow dropping behind these other riders..... I personally believe they are all top tier riders and they will at different times outperform each other due to these differences in riding style.
I agree with you that his unique skills did make a big difference on the Duke but Casey hasn't as yet had a rider of this caliber as a team mate so I hardly expected him to be 1 second a lap faster than these guys on the Honda - particularly Pedrosa.....but I fully expect him to once again be exceptionally fast when he returns to tracks that do suit his particular style....and Dani and Simo will most likely again struggle to stay in touch with him.
I helped too - but the Italian patriarch will never admit it.
Simoncelli rode brilliantly!?!? Crashed in free practice on friday, crashed in qualifying and crashed on the first lap in the race. Brilliant indeed.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
J4rn0 - Whilst I completely respect your knowledge and historical perspective on the sport and enjoy your contributions to the forum immensely I think lately you have become quite uncharacteristically emotive and as a result your recent posts are sometimes lacking your traditional insight - maybe Jumkies pushed your buttons one too many times
Simoncelli and Pedrosa rode brilliantly this past weekend and well done to them but I am sure you understand that different riders have their own strengths and weaknesses and similarly these traits will affect their competitive abilities at certain tracks. You seem to be implying that Stoner is somehow dropping behind these other riders..... I personally believe they are all top tier riders and they will at different times outperform each other due to these differences in riding style.
I agree with you that his unique skills did make a big difference on the Duke but Casey hasn't as yet had a rider of this caliber as a team mate so I hardly expected him to be 1 second a lap faster than these guys on the Honda - particularly Pedrosa.....but I fully expect him to once again be exceptionally fast when he returns to tracks that do suit his particular style....and Dani and Simo will most likely again struggle to stay in touch with him.
Thank you... No, my judgement here is not emotional. I always supported Stoner and I still do, he's such a unique talent. But even now that Rossi is 'almost' fit we see that he still can't ride THIS Ducati quite at the same speed Casey presumably could (although I'd say he's already, and predictably, the fastest rider of this Ducati 800after Stoner, and can improve some more). But I have the impression he would never be quite as fast -- close, but not quite without changing the bike enough to make the comparison irrelevant. Just my guess after observing the last weekend and tests at Estoril.
If Valentino can't, we can assume neither Lorenzo nor Pedrosa could as their style is more like Rossi's. So it's not a matter of the quality of the teammates, and we can say that there was a marked advantage with Casey's style and skill on the Ducati, that is not visible on the Honda.
It will be interesting to see how it goes on other tracks, but my guess is that on average this should be confirmed. Now Stoner has to worry about his teammates, and a lot.
Simoncelli is being faster than Stoner on single laps quite frequently, and it started at Sepang. I think it's quite an achievement. Underestimate Sic at your own peril... He's going to podium and win before the end of the season. Same and more for the resurrected Pedro who being more experienced is very dangerous for the title, not just for wins..
Thank you... No, my judgement here is not emotional. I always supported Stoner and I still do, he's such a unique talent. But even now that Rossi is 'almost' fit we see that he still can't ride THIS Ducati quite at the same speed Casey presumably could (although I'd say he's already, and predictably, the fastest rider of this Ducati 800after Stoner, and can improve some more). But I have the impression he would never be quite as fast -- close, but not quite without changing the bike enough to make the comparison irrelevant. Just my guess after observing the last weekend and tests at Estoril.
If Valentino can't, we can assume neither Lorenzo nor Pedrosa could as their style is more like Rossi's. So it's not a matter of the quality of the teammates, and we can say that there was a marked advantage with Casey's style and skill on the Ducati, that is not visible on the Honda.
It will be interesting to see how it goes on other tracks, but my guess is that on average this should be confirmed. Now Stoner has to worry about his teammates, and a lot.
Simoncelli is being faster than Stoner on single laps quite frequently, and it started at Sepang. I think it's quite an achievement. Underestimate Sic at your own peril... He's going to podium and win before the end of the season. Same and more for the resurrected Pedro who being more experienced is very dangerous for the title, not just for wins..
Top post! Really hope Pedrosa stays healthy (as i do all the riders), i think this year is his best shot. He's got an incredibly strong team mate who's basically moved the goal posts and he seems to be responding well to it. Simo will no doubt bin it a few times more but when he learns to be consistent he's gonna be something else. I envisage an almighty .... storm when he starts block passing the likes of Jorge/casey and even Vale on his way to winning races...
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