Estoril MotoGP: Rossi and Stoner clash again

hawkdriver · May 4, 2011

michaelm said:
As I have said previously this is not an unreasonable point of view and an opinion to which you are very obviously entitled.

I was reminded by a post on another forum though that pedrosa has chosen the more flexible honda chassis option and stoner (unsurprisingly) the stiffer one, which perhaps is an added reason why pedrosa might have been able to achieve a better set-up on the tight and bumpy estoril track.

This is a bad track for him and we could all be wrong lol

, I read some comments on here that Casey wanted his electronics turned down and that there was something going on with what he wanted and the electronics guy not wanting to do it for him. Maybe we can find more info on that. I know he likes the engine/electronics to be on the nasty side as during preseason testing he said the engine was fine while danny and Dovi wanted more work done in that area. The next few qualies should give us some answers on Casey. It's a good thing we have a nice stretch of races comming up.

Remember what I said about him being an unknown variable when it comes to devoping, his issue with the electronics guy is what I expect to happen a lot to Casey. They might not trust giving him what he wants because it's so radical compared to what everybody else wants. To Honda I say give Casey whatever the hell he ask for, if there's one thing he;s proven it's that he does magic on a bike that isn't supposed to be rideable, so let his bike be as nasty as he wants it to be.

hawkdriver · May 4, 2011

Gaz said:
Hawk, just go with me here for a minute as I throw something else into the mix (an alternate view and one that I have been wondering about).

If I understand your point it would seem that you suppose/purport that VR acted with the intention to get a reaction from CS and that by reacting in any manner is indeed evidence that CS is somehow fixated on/with VR and as such this is some indication of a mentalf flaw/failing with regards to the racing at hand. Basically, the thinking is that the 'fixation' of CS on VR is a sign that CS is not focusing fully upon his individual race and/or perhaps more relative rivals on the day and as such he runs the real risk of affecting his results (very reasonable as one's focus must be 100% to achieve the maximum in this game) .

So, let me ask, who reacted?

I ask as it would appear as though VR initiated the situation (he admits this from the quotes) by dropping back to 'gain clear track' (my words). But, he then sped up once CS passed and before Elias arrived ...... I think we can agree that the action itself was provocative and likely designed to get a reaction.

Now, without discussing the reaction itself the supposition is that by reacting CS has 'proven' that VR is indeed inside CS' head, but I purport that VR also has CS inside his (VR's) head else there was no need to perform the provocative action in the first place.

Either way, the games and shenanigans played on the track and off it add a spice that creates interest and discussion far beyond the race day itself.

Gaz

You're right Gaz it could very well be that Casey is in Vale's head or that Vale feels threatened or insecure that he couldn't ride Stoner's bike. The difference is that Rossi has proven he can race while having a rival and all the off track shenanigans, plus this year I don't see him threatening for the title so he has nothing to lose. I really expected Casey to come in focused this year and take the title, it's not to late for him but the competition is seriously heating up. If anyone can go on a tear and win 3 or 4 in a row it's him. I know there was no need for the provocative action but it's Rossi we're talking about, he wont leave it alone lol it's his nature to stir things up. That's why Casey needs to be the one to say enough and ignore Rossi, he isn't relevant to the title chase this year or even proven that he can challenge Casey on the track with the Ducati in the shape it's in. I seriously hope we don't get anymore from these two next race and if we do I'm staying out of it hahaha my fing head hurts talking about Casey and Rossi so much.

chopperman · May 4, 2011

Maybe dorna could do separate practice and quali sessions just for casey.

Talpa · May 4, 2011

chopperman said:
Maybe dorna could do separate practice and quali sessions just for casey.

And the race! hey its getting close enough to a time trial anyway

Talpa · May 4, 2011

I didn't read this before.....

from Rossi on FP incident

Rossi said he had seen Stoner’s gesture and he added: “I saw it yes but I expected this. When we are together he always exaggerates everything too much. If I have to make like this in all my career for people that follow me then I break my seat.”

michaelm · May 4, 2011

Talpa said:
I didn't read this before.....

from Rossi on FP incident

Rossi said he had seen Stoner’s gesture and he added: “I saw it yes but I expected this. When we are together he always exaggerates everything too much. If I have to make like this in all my career for people that follow me then I break my seat.”

Sure, I was aware rossi said this. Did stoner say anything about rossi wanting a tow though?

Tom · May 5, 2011

This is quite an entertaining little tiff, and i guess it was always coming and just needed something to set it off. This has anything to do with mind games or any of that crap Rossi used to try and do with well thought out and sly digs, it hasn't been like that at all. I think they just down right don't like each other, it's good really

bigbang · May 5, 2011

Talpa said:
I didn't read this before.....

from Rossi on FP incident

Rossi said he had seen Stoner’s gesture and he added: “I saw it yes but I expected this. When we are together he always exaggerates everything too much. If I have to make like this in all my career for people that follow me then I break my seat.”

Of course people tried to follow Rossi in the past but following a top rider and fellow title contender is a bit different. I don't think Stoner would have been that annoyed if Abraham or Bautista would have followed him.

J4rn0 · May 5, 2011

bigbang said:
Of course people tried to follow Rossi in the past but following a top rider and fellow title contender is a bit different. I don't think Stoner would have been that annoyed if Abraham or Bautista would have followed him.

You seriously think that Rossi wanted to follow Stoner to try to copy his lines?

yamaka46 · May 5, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
Thank you. It is ok that you disagree but I put this to you. I think the current crop of riders are different to the previous generations. Now days they run at 100% from when the lights go out. If you go back to even 2005 this was not the style. As it was the Rossi era all you have to do is look at how Rossi raced. He would sit in 2nd or 3rd and just wait for 2-3 laps to go and then drop the hammer and win by a couple of seconds. The same applied to the 500 days when they would play a bit of cat and mouse until the end when it would be a contest of who had saved a bit and had the pace to make a gap in the last few laps.

I think it is hard to say unequivocally that all those guys would be able to run the pace that these new guys run from lap one till the last lap. It goes back to the post you made that suggested that no one can afford to get caught up in a early lap battle because it means they can not win because the front guys are gone and can not be caught. It is different now and there are guys still in the field that raced well under the previous strategy yet can not even come close to competing against the Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa's. I have huge respect for Schwantz, Doohan and Bayliss and would never question there ability but I think that the pace now is extraordinary.

Another example is Euro MX compared to AMA MX. in the Euro races they ease into the race. In the AMA it is on from the drop of the gate and often the Euro's can not adjust to this type of strategy.

I think that the "100% from the start" way may have more to do with today's tyres than anything else. With the 2-smokes the tyres would not be capable of fastest laps much beyond half distance, despite the falling fuel load. With the 800s, and to a reasonable extent the 990s, often the fastest lap is set towards the end of the race, if not on the last lap. Given this, I think that the riders can go out guns blazing, safe in the knowledge that whilst the tyres may degrade, they will definitely make the end of the race without too much mollycoddling.

I do recall Stoner commenting (slightly complainingly

) that everyone goes bat .... from lap one these days and yet he, as you correctly point out, has upped his game to cope. I don't think that the Schwantz's, Doohan's etc of this world would have had any problem adapting either.

bigbang · May 5, 2011

J4rn0 said:
You seriously think that Rossi wanted to follow Stoner to try to copy his lines?

Nope. But in my opinion following another rider helps you to break a little later in corners so it is an advantage.

Keshav · May 5, 2011

J4rn0 said:
You seriously think that Rossi wanted to follow Stoner to try to copy his lines?

I certainly don't. Truth to tell... I can't really fathom why Rossi would be following Stoner except for a tow, which normally would be out of character for him - but as he's struggling it's not wholly unreasonable to think he'd take any legal advantage to get a better place

on the grid.

I can think of reasons why he wouldn't want a tow from Simoncelli.

J4rn0 · May 5, 2011

bigbang said:
Nope. But in my opinion following another rider helps you to break a little later in corners so it is an advantage.

You really think Rossi needs a tow from another rider to brake "a little later"?

J4rn0 · May 5, 2011

Keshav said:
I certainly don't. Truth to tell... I can't really fathom why Rossi would be following Stoner except for a tow, which normally would be out of character for him - but as he's struggling it's not wholly unreasonable to think he'd take any legal advantage to get a better place

on the grid.

I can think of reasons why he wouldn't want a tow from Simoncelli.

Tell me why.

bigbang · May 5, 2011

J4rn0 said:
You really think Rossi needs a tow from another rider to brake "a little later"?

What do you mean? Every riders benefits from following another rider. Rossi is no exception.

J4rn0 · May 5, 2011

bigbang said:
What do you mean? Every riders benefits from following another rider. Rossi is no exception.

For braking later, you say. Great.

Talpa · May 5, 2011

bigbang said:
What do you mean? Every riders benefits from following another rider. Rossi is no exception.

How so? If the rider is Elias then it's a major hinderance.

Anyway rossi wasn't close enough for any benefit. So what's the point? One minute you ..... about who's been following Rossi then you say it doesn't matter who, anyone can benefit from this.....so tell us how rossi benefitted from being 50 metres behind stoner in FP?

and for the record Stoner has seriously bitched about 'lesser' riders as you say getting a tow from him, catalunya last year comes to mind.

bigbang · May 5, 2011

Talpa said:
Anyway rossi wasn't close enough for any benefit.

How do you know?

digger · May 5, 2011

dont know if anyone mentioned this, but maybe rossi wanted to be behind someone who was AT LEAST as fast as him so he himself wouldnt be held up by slower riders. He would be almost guaranteed a good run around the circuit if he was behind stoner, cause he certainly wouldnt hold him up....?

michaelm · May 5, 2011

yamaka46 said:
I think that the "100% from the start" way may have more to do with today's tyres than anything else. With the 2-smokes the tyres would not be capable of fastest laps much beyond half distance, despite the falling fuel load. With the 800s, and to a reasonable extent the 990s, often the fastest lap is set towards the end of the race, if not on the last lap. Given this, I think that the riders can go out guns blazing, safe in the knowledge that whilst the tyres may degrade, they will definitely make the end of the race without too much mollycoddling.

I do recall Stoner commenting (slightly complainingly

) that everyone goes bat .... from lap one these days and yet he, as you correctly point out, has upped his game to cope. I don't think that the Schwantz's, Doohan's etc of this world would have had any problem adapting either.

As it happens I watched mick doohan's first race win in 1990 (against rainey, lawson, schwantz , gardner et all) on speed tv australia last night. The notable thing was the change in relative speed of the riders during the race as you have frequently discussed. He had pole, went down as low as 5th while rainey established a substantial lead, then came through later in the race to win easily. Not much fairing bashing in that particular race, with most passes at the end of the straight after slipstreaming.

The tobacco companies were certainly ubiquitous then; the rothmans honda livery was quite striking.

Search

Search

Estoril MotoGP: Rossi and Stoner clash again

hawkdriver

hawkdriver

chopperman

Talpa

Talpa

michaelm

Tom

bigbang

J4rn0

yamaka46

bigbang

Keshav

J4rn0

J4rn0

bigbang

J4rn0

Talpa

bigbang

digger

michaelm

Similar threads

Recent Discussions