Yamaha deny Valentino Rossi ultimatum

J4rn0 said:

Try to think more instead of laughing too much then

The importance of being rider #1 is not in imaginary conspiracies to damage rider #2 -- But as a matter of fact rider #1 will lead the development, and it is likely that a development led by Lorenzo and Forcada would objectively be tailored on Lorenzo's style which is different from Rossi's.



Besides, Rossi has his pride and would not like to ride in the team of a World Champion that is not himself.

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They both would have been #1 riders. Why is that not acceptable?

Surely he should backed himself in to come out on top?

cliché guevara said:

so lorenzos bike wasn't as good as vales the last few years?

i think its a bit of a shame that a huge corporation like yamaha who did absolutly everything for rossi now have to lie and deny his ........ because they're afraid to become villified like most rossi opponents.hating on biaggi,sete,stoner and lorenzo is one thing ,but this is another.

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J4rn0 said:

Try to think more instead of laughing too much then

The importance of being rider #1 is not in imaginary conspiracies to damage rider #2 -- But as a matter of fact rider #1 will lead the development, and it is likely that a development led by Lorenzo and Forcada would objectively be tailored on Lorenzo's style which is different from Rossi's.



Besides, Rossi has his pride and would not like to ride in the team of a World Champion that is not himself.

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........





do you believe rossi had a better bike than lorenzo in 09 and and 2010 yes or no?

povol said:

Straight from the horses mouth



"I think Yamaha has to decide between me and Jorge "I have a great option to go to Ducati."



That was in November of last year, why is it even being discussed. Yamaha said all along they would love to have both back, that was not acceptable to Rossi. End of story

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What next? Press release: 'Yamaha deny being from Japan, the manufacture admits its really from Nepal.

Frizzle said:

They both would have been #1 riders. Why is that not acceptable?

Surely he should backed himself in to come out on top?

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I think I have explained my view of that in the previous posts

Tom said:

Yes it's normal that the development will be lead by the better performing rider in any given team. Rossi left because he realized he was no longer that man.

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U say this but then say it was perfectly ok for Honda to favor Pedro on the heels of Nickys title. See why i dont debate u on this point? Its as dumb and wrong as ur held belief that Kevin Schwantz was overrated. U held the idea that if the poor results came from his bike then it was his fault that the manufacture didnt improve. Nicky got ...... 07 & 08, his only fault was not having the clout to challenge what the Spanish team had already scripted. Yet u would b hard pressed for either American to complain about their respective ride. This is by far ur worst opinion on GP.

cliché guevara said:

........





do you believe rossi had a better bike than lorenzo in 09 and and 2010 yes or no?

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No.



You think Yamaha gives preferential treatment to their #1 rider?

J4rn0 said:

No.

You think Yamaha gives preferential treatment to their #1 rider?

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obviously not as both lorenzo and rossi were always able to fight it out,both confirmed they have identical material





its just very illogic to state that rossi would leave because he'd be number two while insisting that there was no number 1 when rossi beat lorenzo.



let me make it easy for you here

"he won the championship 9 times" . just copy and paste

Mental Anarchist said:

I can't post a comment that you would find reasonable Talpa as I have an intellect and rationality.

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Seriously debatable, someone with consistently biased opinions constantly proclaiming to be highly intellectual



More like seriously arrogant and moronic



My original derivative of your member name is proving ever more correct

Mental Anarchist said:

One reason motorcycle manufacturers go racing is to sell motorbikes. The race rider of their motorcycle has a fan base. A percentage of that fan base will buy the brand of motorcycle that their favourite rider rides. If the rider leaves then a percentage of the fan base will probably leave that brand also. If the fans determine that the rider was ill treated by the manufacturer then maybe a higher percentage will leave the brand than previously would if they felt that the brand had disrespected the rider.



Now before you ask about hard evidence - no I don't have it but a reasonable person would probably assume that the above is reasonable. Of course you will not for obvious reasons.



And yes I know Rossi has 9 WC's before you tell us all again. And guess what unlike you I was out of nappies for all of them.

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Yep, intellectual one, bring us the results for the decline in Yamaha's recent sales figures......otherwise, well its just another extremely bias opinion. Please continue to make a fool of yourself though....

Talpa said:

Seriously debatable, someone with consistently biased opinions constantly proclaiming to be highly intellectual

More like seriously arrogant and moronic



My original derivative of your member name is proving ever more correct







Yep, intellectual one, bring us the results for the decline in Yamaha's recent sales figures......otherwise, well its just another extremely bias opinion. Please continue to make a fool of yourself though....

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What happened to u crying foul, and "apalling behavior"? U sound like a cute little pet, barking, but making little sense, only ur breed knows ur language.



Yawn... Ur days r numbered. Maybe today , maybe tomorrow, who knows...

I dont see what the bloody problem is, he gave them a choice thinking they would stay with the guy who had brought them from zero to hero including 4 world titles instead of the new blood of the future.



Answer is the one he didnt want to hear - they chose the future champion, end of thinking of the future & why not.



I cant help thinking they will pay the price over the coming seasons though. Dont get me wrong i may not like Lorenzo but he will always be at the pointy end, he is that damn good, i just cant see him beating a rampant Stoner on a flying Honda & when Rossi gets the big red monster sorted i cant see him beating him either to a title. I think itmay well be he has his hands full full with his team mate coz he aint gonna move over & get out of his way!!

cliché guevara said:

obviously not as both lorenzo and rossi were always able to fight it out,both confirmed they have identical material





its just very illogic to state that rossi would leave because he'd be number two while insisting that there was no number 1 when rossi beat lorenzo.



let me make it easy for you here

"he won the championship 9 times" . just copy and paste

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Here is another one who does not even read what he replies to



1) I never said there was no # 1

2) What I said is the #1 rider leads the development

3) I said Yamaha does not give preferential treatment to #1, but #1 leads the development, so objectively the bike is designed on his inputs.



PS: You want me to mention Rossi's titles? I never need to mention them. Maybe your mind is like your name -- a cliché

Jumkie said:

What happened to u crying foul, and "apalling behavior"? U sound like a cute little pet, barking, but making little sense, only ur breed knows ur language.



Yawn... Ur days r numbered. Maybe today , maybe tomorrow, who knows...

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Still waiting.......





Drunk again? Do you see me asking him to leave the forum?

J4rn0 said:

Here is another one who does not even read what he replies to

1) I never said there was no # 1

2) What I said is the #1 rider leads the development

3) I said Yamaha does not give preferential treatment to #1, but #1 leads the development, so objectively the bike is designed on his inputs.



PS: You want me to mention Rossi's titles? I never need to mention them. Maybe your mind is like your name -- a cliché

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I think Cliches a big Lorenzo fan.......

Talpa said:

Still waiting.......





Drunk again? Do you see me asking him to leave the forum?

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You are venturing on to dangerous ground talpa.



Whilst most would agree that jumkie shouldn't have asked that you leave the forum however obliquely, prohibition would likely finish the forum overnight .

michaelm said:

You are venturing on to dangerous ground talpa.



Whilst most would agree that jumkie shouldn't have asked that you leave the forum however obliquely, prohibition would likely finish the forum overnight

.

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Ah yes, because calling somebody a fool, moron, arrogant, & questioning intellect (see Talps reply to Anarchist) is so more benign then giving an ultimatum (as Talps forgets the nature of our exchange). Well given this thread, where Yamaha are denying the reality despite Rossi clearly saying the exact opposite as a matter of record (as Pov reminded us); then maybe i never issued the ultimatum either...

Jumkie said:

Ah yes, because calling somebody a fool, moron, arrogant, & questioning intellect (see Talps reply to Anarchist) is so more benign then giving an ultimatum (as Talps forgets the nature of our exchange). Well given this thread, where Yamaha are denying the reality despite Rossi clearly saying the exact opposite as a matter of record (as Pov reminded us); then maybe i never issued the ultimatum either...

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I did say "however obliquely", and you yourself have handed him the spade to dig himself out, seemingly to no avail .



I also object to personal abuse which talpa has moderated of late, although where mental anarchist or the post concerning you to which I replied are concerned he has admittedly relapsed; as you have said previously resorting to argumentum ad hominem is usually a sign of desperation by someone who is losing rather than winning a debate .

J4rn0 said:

Here is another one who does not even read what he replies to

1) I never said there was no # 1

2) What I said is the #1 rider leads the development

3) I said Yamaha does not give preferential treatment to #1, but #1 leads the development, so objectively the bike is designed on his inputs.



PS: You want me to mention Rossi's titles? I never need to mention them. Maybe your mind is like your name -- a cliché

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good one ,ill give you that



then please explain exactly how lorenzos style differs from rossis?smooth as ....,both of them. lorenzo carries a little more corner speed and thats it





@ talpa : congrats you've read who my current favorite rider is! and yes,of course i'm a fan of his,who wouldn't be after this season?

acutally i've got 3 posters of my 3 favorite riders on my bedroom wall : stoner,rossi,lorenzo. no order. but why is this even something that needs to be mentioned? you couldn't talk to a lorenzo fan because clearly there is only one god to be worshiped or wtf is wrong with you guys ^^



This isn't about whos a fan of whom.only you guys are concerned....OBSESSED with that!

you guys are not able to take someones opinion seriously if they don't have the same blurred distorted view you guys have which disables you to recognize that there are other truly great riders out there.

i think most of the so called rossi haters here,including myself, admire the guy and every sane person agrees he needs to be ranked among the best if not the best ever. but that doesn't mean he's without sin

Jumkie said:

U say this but then say it was perfectly ok for Honda to favor Pedro on the heels of Nickys title. See why i dont debate u on this point? Its as dumb and wrong as ur held belief that Kevin Schwantz was overrated. U held the idea that if the poor results came from his bike then it was his fault that the manufacture didnt improve. Nicky got ...... 07 & 08, his only fault was not having the clout to challenge what the Spanish team had already scripted. Yet u would b hard pressed for either American to complain about their respective ride. This is by far ur worst opinion on GP.

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I said it is normal for the better performing rider to lead development. It is not always the case, as in the example you mention. Nicky might have had some clout to change things in his team if he'd had the speed to go with it. Bottom line, he didn't adapt quickly enough to the 800's. The 07 Honda was a dog, but how can you expect HRC to take development direction from a rider who's spending half the season altering his riding style when their other rider is on the podium regularly, just because he was champion last season on a very different motorcycle.

cliché guevara said:

good one ,ill give you that



then please explain exactly how lorenzos style differs from rossis?smooth as ....,both of them. lorenzo carries a little more corner speed and thats it





...............

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Why not... here is my 5 cents:



Lorenzo's style is pure 250 style: really smooth and with probably the best corner speed in the series. His "porfuera" reputation comes from that: he was negotiating corners so much faster than most, in 125 and 250, that he could often overtake them on the outside.



When the premier class was made of 500cc 2-strokers, the word was that if you tried to ride a 500 in 250 style you were very fast, but you crashed. Lorenzo was in fact very fast from the beginning, but crashed a lot. The 800cc with electronic aids are more forgiving than the old 500s, but not enough.



Eventually Lorenzo learned. In the Yamaha he found the ideal bike for his style -- he did not have to adapt much, but he had to learn how to keep his corner speed style while avoiding the crashes. In that, I think Forcada has helped him a lot tuning his bike, and related electronics, in the best way to that end.



Rossi's style is different. He became smoother when he switched to Yamaha, to adapt to the qualities of the bike; but Rossi was never a corner speed smooth rider, not even when he was racing 250s. His natural style was more aggressive, more like Simoncelli to give an example. In fact one can see that he did exceedingly well on the 500s and the 990s, less with the 800cc that are the bikes that he likes the least (corner speed with the 800cc has increased a lot compared to old 500 and 990).



Still, so far (with Stoner) he has been the most successful rider of the 800cc era. That could change next year, Lorenzo could overtake both Rossi and Stoner... we'll see.



If Rossi can adapt to the Ducati, or adapt the Ducati to himself, I think that's a bike that will suit his natural style because it has lots of power and traction and calls for aggressive riding. Rossi has to find that additional front-end grip and feel he needs for his trademark corner entries on the brakes. It depends on that.