Stoner Sandbagging

BarryMachine · Feb 25, 2011

Well we all know that Stoner has duped Rossi into going to Ducati. Yes he loves fishing and it was all just a game and hence a simple case of landing a Big Mouth Bassi just where you want him, ie. throw out the attractive bait till you get a bite and bam ...... Rossi is in the boat and floundering like a fish out of water,

He won't admit to it but it must be his doing, Rossi can't be at fault.

So are we to believe this:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...bruary/feb2411-stoner-could-have-been-faster/

is he sandbagging? is there more to come? how much?

gui22a · Feb 25, 2011

Stoner always says that, even when he was at Ducati wasn't that hard to catch him sayin "I could have gone faster" and bla bla.

but reality is a little bit different, as we can see in his own statement:

"I never feel quite so comfortable in the morning and I ran wide a couple of times because I didn't want to crash and we were still able to do those times."

So, if going faster means a very high risk to crash, then, no, I think he is not sandbagging.

Andy Roo · Feb 25, 2011

It's a test, he didn't want to bin it, it is therefore a good race test, because binning it in a race doesn't usually land you a spray of champagne or the points that go with it.

I think every rider out there could have gone faster

Rossi for example could have gone a lot faster (meoooow!)

But for Casey with an eternally suspect scaphoid a good series of fast race simulations without a trip to the kitty litter is perfect. His average times (on motogp site) were a hell of a lot better than anyone else.

This was probably sensible, no sandbagging. But as far as being a perfect "fight fight fight" off track subject, both perfect and redundant

jazkat · Feb 25, 2011

the simple answer to your question barry is wait until qualifying.......

and yes he prob can go faster he didnt almost fall off so there is some headroom, hes still finding the edge.

BarryMachine · Feb 26, 2011

Well something tells me we are in for a real treat this year, I think he is sandbagging to some extent.

I think there is more to come from him on the Honda.

frosty58 · Feb 26, 2011

what gui said...

Kropotkin · Feb 26, 2011

Stoner doesn't do sandbagging. But yes, there is still plenty more speed left in the Honda, and Stoner will extract it.

michaelm · Feb 26, 2011

Kropotkin said:
Stoner doesn't do sandbagging.

Rossi on the other hand does.

This we're really worried stuff is most uncharacteristic, and I note with interest from your site that presiozi wasn't even at sepang but rather back home with battaini et al doing private testing. No mention of what they were testing, but presumably not necessarily the same things being tested at sepang. Perhaps the rossi/jb changes were so extensive as not to be quite ready for sepang 2. Also while it seems rather unlikely they can come up with an entirely new chassis design this year, I think there was also an aluminium version of the current chassis initially. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they turned up with something quite a lot different at the qatar test, late admittedly to change drastically but perhaps not in view of the lack of progress with the current bike.

ptk50 · Feb 28, 2011

michaelm said:
Rossi on the other hand does.

This we're really worried stuff is most uncharacteristic, and I note with interest from your site that presiozi wasn't even at sepang but rather back home with battaini et al doing private testing. No mention of what they were testing, but presumably not necessarily the same things being tested at sepang. Perhaps the rossi/jb changes were so extensive as not to be quite ready for sepang 2. Also while it seems rather unlikely they can come up with an entirely new chassis design this year, I think there was also an aluminium version of the current chassis initially. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they turned up with something quite a lot different at the qatar test, late admittedly to change drastically but perhaps not in view of the lack of progress with the current bike.

No doubt - Stoner is fast - as long as he doesn't crash. Having 2 fast team-mates will push (and help) him. Rossi is really going to have to concentrate and focus this year - no time for kiddy games in motocross - needs to get his shoulder really right. It's going to be a good racing season.

Nuts · Feb 28, 2011

No one is sandbagging......

Too much at stake.

povol · Feb 28, 2011

Every article i read about the test, and how far off Rossi and the Ducati are, it cracks me up to read the some of the comments after the article. There is a segment of Rossi fans who are clinging to thought that Rossi has not run the soft tire, and when he does, it will close the gap down to a managable deficit and his god like skills will do the rest. Its like they dont know that the difference between the hard and soft is a couple of tenths at best.I beleive they think the old 1 lap qualifier is still available. What a shock its going to be when they find out that not only is there is not a magic tire waiting to be bolted on, but that the Ducati may well be slower on the soft than on the hard.

ptk50 · Feb 28, 2011

povol said:
Every article i read about the test, and how far off Rossi and the Ducati are, it cracks me up to read the some of the comments after the article. There is a segment of Rossi fans who are clinging to thought that Rossi has not run the soft tire, and when he does, it will close the gap down to a managable deficit and his god like skills will do the rest. Its like they dont know that the difference between the hard and soft is a couple of tenths at best.I beleive they think the old 1 lap qualifier is still available. What a shock its going to be when they find out that not only is there is not a magic tire waiting to be bolted on, but that the Ducati may well be slower on the soft than on the hard.

ImO the soft tire thing should be dropped - not only in this thread, but in MotoGP - maybe there's one good thing that could be taken from F1 - the tire you qualify with is the tire you start with. I'm not sure if the advantage is only 2 tenths, but then with the Ducati 1.8 off the pace it's a moot point whether it's 2 or 4 tenths. I am a Rossi fan and DO see very very clearly that VR, JB and Ducati have got a LOT of work to do to move from lower mid-field to the pointed end of the pack. There are no Gods or miracles to help - just a long hard fight for Ducati against Honda, who have after 4 years finally developed a really fast and consistent bike without VR and JB.

Jumkie · Feb 28, 2011

ptk50 said:
ImO the soft tire thing should be dropped - not only in this thread, but in MotoGP - maybe there's one good thing that could be taken from F1 - the tire you qualify with is the tire you start with. I'm not sure if the advantage is only 2 tenths, but then with the Ducati 1.8 off the pace it's a moot point whether it's 2 or 4 tenths. I am a Rossi fan and DO see very very clearly that VR, JB and Ducati have got a LOT of work to do to move from lower mid-field to the pointed end of the pack. There are no Gods or miracles to help - just a long hard fight for Ducati against Honda, who have after 4 years finally developed a really fast and consistent bike without VR and JB.

For a Bopper, This is perhaps your most sober post ever.

ptk50 · Feb 28, 2011

Jumkie said:
For a Bopper, This is perhaps your most sober post ever.

Why Jumkie - that's almost friendly ;-)

For the the record Rossi Boppers as such do not exist. The term Bopper, used mostly to denote so-called Rossi Boppers is really just your invention simply created to detract from the value of anyone's comments, which may be favorable of VR or his racing skills. Not a bad idea, but certainly not new.

Even though at times I have written unfriendly things about CS - I have also on a # of occasions written very favorably about some of his racrs in the last season. If it takes a while for VR to beat Hogay to the finish in 2011, then while I'm waiting - I'd like to see CS be the one who does it starting from race 1.

povol · Feb 28, 2011

ptk50 said:
ImO the soft tire thing should be dropped - not only in this thread, but in MotoGP - maybe there's one good thing that could be taken from F1 - the tire you qualify with is the tire you start with. I'm not sure if the advantage is only 2 tenths, but then with the Ducati 1.8 off the pace it's a moot point whether it's 2 or 4 tenths. I am a Rossi fan and DO see very very clearly that VR, JB and Ducati have got a LOT of work to do to move from lower mid-field to the pointed end of the pack. There are no Gods or miracles to help - just a long hard fight for Ducati against Honda, who have after 4 years finally developed a really fast and consistent bike without VR and JB.

So, should they be required to pit and run the opposite compound they started on like F1. You cant compare the 2 series or their regulations, one series runs races that are 3 times as long as the other series.

Mental Anarchist · Feb 28, 2011

Didn't Rossi run the soft front tyre most of the time at the test because they couldn't make the hard one work? I think as soon as they can make the harder front work then we will see an immediate time gain.

As far as sandbagging goes I can imagine a rider/team sand banging a couple of tenths or one sector but I doubt that they would do any more than this. In testing it hardly seems a relevant thing to do as surely testing a motoGP bike requires riding at the limit not testing for its real world i.e streetable attributes like touring!!!!

ptk50 · Feb 28, 2011

povol said:
So, should they be required to pit and run the opposite compound they started on like F1. You cant compare the 2 series or their regulations, one series runs races that are 3 times as long as the other series.

For a guy who write so many posts - you should try reading what others - including myself - actually say in their posts.

My suggestion clearly referred to racing on the tires used for qualifying and referred to NO other F1 practices. That almost anybody racing on quali tires would eventually have to pit and change - and not win the race - is fairly obvious.

That we cannot compare F1 to MotoGP is a useful piece of advice - thanks

renjith_varma · Feb 28, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
Didn't Rossi run the soft front tyre most of the time at the test because they couldn't make the hard one work? I think as soon as they can make the harder front work then we will see an immediate time gain.

As far as sandbagging goes I can imagine a rider/team sand banging a couple of tenths or one sector but I doubt that they would do any more than this. In testing it hardly seems a relevant thing to do as surely testing a motoGP bike requires riding at the limit not testing for its real world i.e streetable attributes like touring!!!!

I hope you are aware that a rider can deliberately run wide in one corner and yet be on the edge through out the rest of the lap.

In my mind a lot of things are possible by running on the edge but yet sand bagging - you can choose to ride hard for 2 of 3 sectors and relax a bit on the third one

Also, a rider can chose to see how the bike responds in certain corners only by riding hard at that part of the circuit and then laze a bit around the rest(of course maintaining the tire temp).

And regarding Rossi, from what I remember reading during the test, he was running mostly on hard tires. Isn't it logical to run hard tires mostly to find a solution if they don't seem to working well?

povol · Feb 28, 2011

ptk50 said:
For a guy who write so many posts - you should try reading what others - including myself - actually say in their posts.

My suggestion clearly referred to racing on the tires used for qualifying and referred to NO other F1 practices. That almost anybody racing on quali tires would eventually have to pit and change - and not win the race - is fairly obvious.

That we cannot compare F1 to MotoGP is a useful piece of advice - thanks

You do realize that neither series has a qualifying tire, so its a moot point.

BarryMachine · Feb 28, 2011

povol said:
You do realize that neither series has a qualifying tire, so its a moot point.

Quite true ...... it seems just another of the current straws being clutched at ATM. Though to his credit, it did bring Rossi up a bit when one looks at the long run comparison ........

which is quite a sensible tactic ...... ie. Rossi knows there is a "knife-edge" tolerance on the front of the Duc. ......... so why go there ........ instead perhaps they were looking at putting together a real race in such a manner that he is not tempted to push to close to the "knife-edge".

I think the Boppers are not seeing this, instead too busy saying the Honda's are so fast, still denying that Casey was doing simillar to Rossi ( looking at the race distance ) whereas folk like Pedro and Simo ( especially Simo ) turned out a few fast laps ......

I think Rossi will surprise at Qatar ( I still doubt the win ) but he is capable of a top 5 on the Duc. Not buying the Honda dominance thing I think its still a case of "Case" making it all look good.

A few others up there for the long runs ... Lorenzo ( naturally ), Big Ben, Dovi etc etc etc. You have to remember Pedro had a shocking shoulder injury after Rossi ( and far worse than Rossi's ) and is still having stamina probs due to that. Just look at Valencia race at the end of last year.

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