Stoner frustrated

^

Someone using common sense on Motogpforum?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Nov 2 2007, 08:45 PM) [snapback]98250[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I am not dissing Stoner. But, I refuse to accept he is as good as or better than Rossi after one season.

Rossi has a championship track record:

125cc: 9th and 1st
250cc: 2nd and 1st
500cc: 2nd, 1st,
MotoGP990cc: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, and 2nd (on two different bikes)
MotoGP 800cc: 2nd
Stoner? Here goes:

125cc: 8th and 5th
250cc: 2nd
500cc: Before his time
MotoGP 990cc: 8th
MotoGp 800cc: 1st

Stoner wins one season. The season where the most changes were made -- bike displacement decreased and tire rules changed. Well, someone had to win this championship and he did. Whether he continue to win championships, remains to be seen.

While the top 10 riders in MotoGP have almost the same skill level, to win consistently race after race (ok stoner can), year after year, on different bikes proves that they are a little bit better than the rest. That is all I am saying.

Rossi did not have to leave Honda after winning a few chmpionships and move to Yamaha -- a bike which finished 7th (behind 4 hondas and 2 ducatis) in the prior year. Many people thought he was being a fool. But, when he won another championship on it they were silenced. That, to me was the crown jewel in Rossi's achievements -- taking a bike that finished 7thin the previous year and winning a championship with it.


it deserved to be on this page too

and stoner on his sencond year in motogp, takes the ducati that has never have looked like winning, and now dominating isnt the same thing?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Nov 2 2007, 10:47 PM) [snapback]98275[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
and stoner on his sencond year in motogp, takes the ducati that has never have looked like winning, and now dominating isnt the same thing?


Capi won races on it last year and the year before and bayliss last year at valencia.

they had 5 years to try win it, at best they came 3rd, but really loris wasnt in the hunt, being close is one thing but winning is another thing

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Nov 2 2007, 10:57 PM) [snapback]98277[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
they had 5 years to try win it, at best they came 3rd, but really loris wasnt in the hunt, being close is one thing but winning is another thing


True but this year is difficult to judge as Stoner is not doing it under the same conditions.

Bridgestone handled the new bikes better than Michelin did (probably because the data was equal especially on the European tracks Michelin dominated in 990)

Capirossi not taking to the new bike.

If we were still using 990 Stoner probably would not have 10 wins, Rossi's bike would be more competitive and Michelin would still be dominating places like Le Man, Jerez, Catalunya etc.

But i can't say Michelin didn't deserve what was coming to them, they should have been going the same direction as Bridgestone not sitting around thinking they will always have the best tyre, as if places like Sepang, Motegi where not a warning sign of the capabilities of the Bridgestone tyre.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 3 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]98276[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Capi won races on it last year and the year before and bayliss last year at valencia.



Yeah and Rossi got 4 wins on the Yamaha .... and the Rossi fans are saying its no good ...... theres so much illogical stuff flying around here ....

Take the "blinkers" off

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Nov 2 2007, 11:51 PM) [snapback]98282[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yeah and Rossi got 4 wins on the Yamaha .... and the Rossi fans are saying its no good ...... theres so much illogical stuff flying around here ....

Take the "blinkers" off


would you say the Yamaha is better than the Honda.. yet they have one win so Rossi has done an amazing job to get 4 wins but lets praise Stoner some more

Casey Stoner - 2ND YOUNGEST EVER PREMIER CLASS WINNER - says it all really!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Nov 2 2007, 11:54 PM) [snapback]98284[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Casey Stoner - 2ND YOUNGEST EVER PREMIER CLASS WINNER - says it all really!


and first ever 800cc class winner... says a whole lot more

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 2 2007, 04:48 PM) [snapback]98281[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

But i can't say Michelin didn't deserve what was coming to them, they should have been going the same direction as Bridgestone not sitting around thinking they will always have the best tyre, as if places like Sepang, Motegi where not a warning sign of the capabilities of the Bridgestone tyre.
I could not agree with you more. Very little of the public knew it was Michlelin's saturday-night-specials, which were offered to only a few riders -- were doing the trick for them. They themselves may have underestimated the the benefit of the last minute tires.

What better advertising for Bridgestone than for Rossi to demand that he have Bridgestones. The longer Bridgstone hold's out, the more free advertising they are getting. And to think, they gave those tires away for free while Michlins charged million(s?). If I was a Michelin, i would be screaming for a refund : )

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 2 2007, 11:57 AM) [snapback]98131[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
stoner wants it all yesterday, all ive seen is respect for him here and in the media so i cant see what he is "whining" about.


Roger got a good point here, because just like hayden before Stoner had to express his displeasement about being compared to Rossi all the time.
I found the "Number don't l1e" disapointing and a clear sign of lack of confidence. Now Stoner does a similar thing but for, i think, a different reason. As you say Roger, he want's everything yesterday. He may like it or not but he will be measured against Rossi as long as they both are in MotoGP, that's just the way things work. And that's what you Stoner fans just have to learn to live with. Get a better life and be happy for stoner's victory instead of bickering over the rest of the world looking into the details of why Rossi didn't win. You are of course dead wrong and close to paranoid if you think that most of the world motorsport media is Rossi worshippers. You only look smaller and surpricingly many here get grumpy for any hint of a good bike and good tires dispite the fact that 99% of the Rossi fan's here are full of respect for the guy. Take tom's advice instead and take it as a compliment when most of the world can't figure out why he took such a dominat victory over the living icon of road racing. That's what Stoner should have done too in the first place.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 3 2007, 10:54 AM) [snapback]98283[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
would you say the Yamaha is better than the Honda.. yet they have one win so Rossi has done an amazing job to get 4 wins but lets praise Stoner some more



Yes the numbers do suggest the Yamaha is better than the Honda ...


but .... I think the problem here is that I am aware that whilst I am aware the numbers can "suggest" an outcome .... ie. Rossi on a Yamaha with Michelins ... His package ...... is the second best ..... The numbers do not specify which variable in "the Package" is the major part.

Whereas you say its "Rossi" and you seem to believe that further to that Rossi is supergood and is in fact bolstering the Yamaha ( suggesting the Yamaha is crap!!! ) ....... I do not see this from all the other superfluous information.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Nov 3 2007, 11:17 AM) [snapback]98291[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Roger got a good point here, because just like hayden before Stoner had to express his displeasement about being compared to Rossi all the time.

Well he is being isn't he

But anyway I think reality will hit Sundat evening after Valencia when they are at the awards ceremony ....


Plus as I said if he gets the win at Valencia to have scored the most Dominant yearly win ever .... will be a history making effort.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Nov 3 2007, 11:17 AM) [snapback]98291[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I found the "Number don't l1e" disapointing and a clear sign of lack of confidence. Now Stoner does a similar thing but for, i think, a different reason. As you say Roger, he want's everything yesterday. He may like it or not but he will be measured against Rossi as long as they both are in MotoGP, that's just the way things work. And that's what you Stoner fans just have to learn to live with. Get a better life and be happy for stoner's victory instead of bickering over the rest of the world looking into the details of why Rossi didn't win. You are of course dead wrong and close to paranoid if you think that most of the world motorsport media is Rossi worshippers. You only look smaller and surpricingly many here get grumpy for any hint of a good bike and good tires dispite the fact that 99% of the Rossi fan's here are full of respect for the guy. Take tom's advice instead and take it as a compliment when most of the world can't figure out why he took such a dominat victory over the living icon of road racing. That's what Stoner should have done too in the first place.




Ok I'll try not to be so upset about Stoner winning and hence get a life.

Stoner better learn quick that fans are irrational. Most people who really count -- the sponsors, manufacturer and competition (Rossi and Hayden) have given him full points for riding well. He can't expect the fans to change their opinion over night does he? Rossi never had such a fanbase the first tme he won. He built it over the years of not disspointing his fans.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Nov 3 2007, 03:01 PM) [snapback]98310[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rossi never had such a fanbase the first tme he won.


Yeah I can remember he was viewed as a "young upstart" at first ..... I'd even go as far as to say maybe if there were such forums about then he would have got the same treatment Stoner has .... maybe even worse, because back then most 500 guys were older more experienced riders and each rider had a broader fan base.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Nov 3 2007, 04:01 AM) [snapback]98310[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Stoner better learn quick that fans are irrational. Most people who really count -- the sponsors, manufacturer and competition (Rossi and Hayden) have given him full points for riding well. He can't expect the fans to change their opinion over night does he? Rossi never had such a fanbase the first tme he won. He built it over the years of not disspointing his fans.


I think you make good points, especially the last sentence. Casey should enjoy this year and get on with trying to win some more world championships; if he does so he won't have to worry about people's perception of his place in history because it will already be clear.

I have said many times that stoner should not be compared with rossi at this stage, but one area in which it is totally clear he will never compare is as a media performer/politician. I suspect valentino has a direct lineage to the renaissance florentine princes who more or less invented modern politics in western civilisation. At his absolute peak, he could probably have had a new pope installed on a sunday morning then won a motogp in the afternoon. He is immensely sophisticated and obviously intrinsically quite intelligent.

Casey on the other hand clearly is uncomfortable with the whole media thing and sometimes makes statements straight off the top of his head, to his cost. These are often in response to very leading questions by journalists. I haven't seen the complete context of this latest quote, but I suspect he was responding to a journalist asking whether he was frustrated rather than raising it himself.

I LOL everytime i hear Rossi speak

I LOL everytime I read your posts

Thats stupid and heres why.... is english his or my first langauge no... you should respect the fact he even bothered to learn english just so you dont need a translator and along with that most people whos language isn't english as their native langauge can barely understand austrailians to begin with! So take a look in the mirror their mate and throw some shrimp on the barby

its more his voice, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdK_7YJrZcM

check out the youtube comments, and no their not mine

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Nov 3 2007, 07:49 AM) [snapback]98328[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I LOL everytime i hear Rossi speak

and i lol every time i see your posts pervy pinky, i just imagine you on your hong kong ... holidays