Stoner frustrated

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Nov 2 2007, 09:50 AM) [snapback]98105[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
No, all the facts wer have is that Stoner has way more points than Rossi. It is peoples speculation that puts that down to anything other than Casey. I still believe that the riders are making the difference, and Stoner himself is by far the biggest performance advantage anyone has this season. "The bike makes all the differnce" argument is a valid one, but not coming from the same people who said the rider was the deciding factor when it suited them.

thats not being debated, but the DNF's rossi suffered are also facts but by mentioning this some will lable me a worshiper and imply im not giving credit to stoner.
how many people now on this forum who dont put a fav rider or put someone who is not racing anymore ? why do you think this is ?
how many rossi fans still regually post here compared to stoners fans ? not many ! these are also facts. it make me laugh when some of these stoner fans call rossi fans worshipers. the funny bit is, when you pull them up on it they always say the same .... "i used to be a rossi fan " yeah ,well whos the ....... fanboy then

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krazy91 @ Nov 2 2007, 05:54 PM) [snapback]98080[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
here comes the stoner brigade I forgot to add to the bottem of my post... I dont think rossi is god, or I dont hate his riding
my mistake....

to clarify I think stoners personality is crap sure he is a good rider, has nothing to do with the "king" not winning...
can like a tsunami just come and destory all austrailian internet capabilities or something doesnt have to destory the island itself or the people but just for like a year or so..

these guys are worse than the hayden trolls last year!


hahahaha...is it krazy91 or should that be krazy91 to its millennium??? what a silly thing to say! im really flabbergasted with your post and i really find it very offensive as an australian!!! you just don’t have any idea how our psychic works mate!!! and im really glad that you never will!!!

and you go on about personalities??? this isn’t a hollywood circus like mr rossi has made it out to be over the years! or his carbon copy cuppa chup kid lorenzo! the guys that are at the top now are a bunch of very dedicated and up and coming champions!!! they don’t want to imitate, they want to win eg melandri, pedrosa, west, vermeulen etc etc and the competition these days is about 100% more competitive then when mr rossi was last a champion (btw rossi as someone said here for the majority of his winning ways was on superior equipment anyways)!!!

btw: if you look at the record!!! that is why australian riders are always successful whenever a champion or champions come along!!!

and also roge-m im not a stoner or any australian riders fan boy!!! i just tell the facts over the years in 500's and motogp!!! and this sport was always a fair dinkum serious and we surely dont want it to be a joke!!! like some are making it!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 2 2007, 09:39 AM) [snapback]98101[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
a. how much credit does he need, all ive seen is people giving him credit, .... every post here starts with the "stoner deserved to win"or something similar.

b. this is bollocks, sure he has a lot of fans, but so does stoner "now" when i read statement like this and the word "worship" i find it insulting to my intelligence. define worship for me

c. here its you that now sounds like a worshiper, blind to the facts.

d. a thinly vieled dig at rossi fans no doubt,
your post is exactly the same as a lot of other aussie stoner fans posts, winning and bias.imo. you state no facts only blinded oppinion. stoner has been in the limelight for 1 season, rossi for 10,that why he has more fans and more respect, deal with it !!




Ok Roger, here goes.

A: My full post says 'Stoner is like all other top flight athletes in that he has an ego that needs massaging and a highly strung personality and it would undoubtedly frustrate him that people would not give what he feels is just credit.'

So, what I am saying is like top flight athletes they like to hear that they are the best, whether true or false, opinion or fact, they like to hear it. This was not a 'give him credit' comment but having experience with a number of top flight athletes, they enjoy their egos being massaged asd yes, Stoner is no different.


B. My full post says 'But, whilst he has the right to say what he chooses (as does every other rider) we are still in a Rossi worship era and as such whatever he says will either be twisted or construed as an attack on Rossi whether intended or not.'.

It is attempting to say (possibly poorly) that Rossi si still the darling of the media (yes, even in some quarters in Oz) as well as the public. He is worshipped or idolised by millions and it is this blind fanaticism that colours many peoples (media and fans) judgements. This is the same thing that a number of Stoner fans and fans of other riders do themselves in that their feelings/opinions/judgements are coloured by their allegiance to certain riders.


C. My post 'For mine, Stoner has not received as much credit this year as is perhaps his due as people are still trying to find that excuse as to why Rossi did not win'

So an opinion saying that perhaps more credit is due makes me a worshipper and it is just that, an opinion and it is based upon comments read in this and other forums, but nmonetheless an opinion.

D, My post ' Personally I to get sick of the ridiculous blind worship of many people in this (and other) forums whom find it difficult to recognise that people are allowed to have opinions that diifer from their blindly worshipped ones.'

If you perceive this as thinly veiled at Rossi fans perhaps you have a guilty conscience for it is aimed at those fans that cannot remove their personal bias from judgements and not all of these are Rossi fans, nor just Stoner fans.



And finally your post 'your post is exactly the same as a lot of other aussie stoner fans posts, winning and bias.imo. you state no facts only blinded oppinion. stoner has been in the limelight for 1 season, rossi for 10,that why he has more fans and more respect, deal with it !!'

By the way, do you mean 'whining'.

So I have an opinion, whoop dee, maybe you should get over it, but for what it is worth Stoner has been in the limelight for more than 1 year and I will agree, has a long way to go but in honesty I do not expect him to achieve Rossi's level of result nor outright levels of worship. He is not the personality to want it nor will it be given by default (ie. fans just like him because....)

Now, none of what I have posted are facts and should not be taken as such, but please, are your's fact or like mine, opinion?






Garry

Fan of the whole grid,me ,so I just sit back and chuckle at the backbiting.....good to be contented

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gaz @ Nov 2 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]98121[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Ok Roger, here goes.

A: My full post says 'Stoner is like all other top flight athletes in that he has an ego that needs massaging and a highly strung personality and it would undoubtedly frustrate him that people would not give what he feels is just credit.'

So, what I am saying is like top flight athletes they like to hear that they are the best, whether true or false, opinion or fact, they like to hear it. This was not a 'give him credit' comment but having experience with a number of top flight athletes, they enjoy their egos being massaged asd yes, Stoner is no different.

B. My full post says 'But, whilst he has the right to say what he chooses (as does every other rider) we are still in a Rossi worship era and as such whatever he says will either be twisted or construed as an attack on Rossi whether intended or not.'.

It is attempting to say (possibly poorly) that Rossi si still the darling of the media (yes, even in some quarters in Oz) as well as the public. He is worshipped or idolised by millions and it is this blind fanaticism that colours many peoples (media and fans) judgements. This is the same thing that a number of Stoner fans and fans of other riders do themselves in that their feelings/opinions/judgements are coloured by their allegiance to certain riders.

C. My post 'For mine, Stoner has not received as much credit this year as is perhaps his due as people are still trying to find that excuse as to why Rossi did not win'

So an opinion saying that perhaps more credit is due makes me a worshipper and it is just that, an opinion and it is based upon comments read in this and other forums, but nmonetheless an opinion.

D, My post ' Personally I to get sick of the ridiculous blind worship of many people in this (and other) forums whom find it difficult to recognise that people are allowed to have opinions that diifer from their blindly worshipped ones.'

If you perceive this as thinly veiled at Rossi fans perhaps you have a guilty conscience for it is aimed at those fans that cannot remove their personal bias from judgements and not all of these are Rossi fans, nor just Stoner fans.
And finally your post 'your post is exactly the same as a lot of other aussie stoner fans posts, winning and bias.imo. you state no facts only blinded oppinion. stoner has been in the limelight for 1 season, rossi for 10,that why he has more fans and more respect, deal with it !!'

By the way, do you mean 'whining'.

So I have an opinion, whoop dee, maybe you should get over it, but for what it is worth Stoner has been in the limelight for more than 1 year and I will agree, has a long way to go but in honesty I do not expect him to achieve Rossi's level of result nor outright levels of worship. He is not the personality to want it nor will it be given by default (ie. fans just like him because....)

Now, none of what I have posted are facts and should not be taken as such, but please, are your's fact or like mine, opinion?
Garry

stoner wants it all yesterday, all ive seen is respect for him here and in the media so i cant see what he is "whining" about.

from what ive seen,its stoner who is being worshiped, not rossi, mabe your media is different to here.

this is where i loose interest, its been debated to death.

mabe i misunderstood you here, but i read a lot lately stoner fans name calling rossi fans but never back .... up, but dont take my word for it, sit back and read.

haha, your funny, i would expect an aussie to be able to spell that

really ? i wouldn't have called last year or anyother year limelight, gravel rash mabe.

austrailian tv must be ...., did you lot no theres more than 2 riders in motogp ?

It`s handbag time again,people

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 2 2007, 10:57 AM) [snapback]98131[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
austrailian tv must be ...., did you lot no theres more than 2 riders in motogp ?



All cool, diversity is what makes it fun.

As for TV, yep is pure .... over here as we struggle to get anything decent on free to air TV never mind bike racing (we get highlights pacjkages of local Superbikes etc weeks after they ran). But on Pay TV we do get some of the BSB (mad nutters on those tracks), AMA and full season of WSBK (includes highlights of BSB) and of course MGP.

As for riders, come on we have three you know, CS, CV and Ant West although I have a gut feel that it will be a maximum of 2 after next year.

As for others in the top class, Rossi gets tremendous coverage here but as someone who has followed since before the Doohan era, yep I know of more and wish todays were of that ilk.




Garry
edited and added last paragraph

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Nov 2 2007, 09:19 AM) [snapback]98095[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I can understand why he would be frustrated by the people who refuse to give him his credit, but i think it makes his title greater. To have beaten someone who is so good that people cannot believe hge is beaten is pretty good, and in time his win will stand strong as an impressive one. However i think comments like this make him more like Rossi and less like Doohan (who he is so often compared to). He knows what he has done and he knows how good he is, there is no point in getting hung up on what people think of you.


Actually tom, doohan complained more than stoner and rossi put together, mainly about honda giving the other honda riders and alex criville in particular the set-up from doohan's bike for qualifying and/or the race often after he had previously been a second a lap or more faster.

It may be an urban myth, but so bloody-minded was doohan that at one stage it was rumoured he got honda to change the engine design of the 500 two-stroke not because he thought it would make the bike particularly faster but because nobody else would be able to ride it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Nov 2 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]98144[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Actually tom, doohan complained more than stoner and rossi put together, mainly about honda giving the other honda riders and alex criville in particular the set-up from doohan's bike for qualifying and/or the race often after he had previously been a second a lap or more faster.

It may be an urban myth, but so bloody-minded was doohan that at one stage it was rumoured he got honda to change the engine design of the 500 two-stroke not because he thought it would make the bike particularly faster but because nobody else would be able to ride it.

it brings back memory's when stoner moans about being followed on track, doohan was always whining that alex criv was following him. mcn use to run a cartoon about doohan and his whining. i think a lot of it is just to try and unsettle your competition.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alex29 @ Nov 2 2007, 01:51 AM) [snapback]98106[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
[attachmentid=2486]
This might help a few people.....


Yes it definately will help a few people mainly stoner! You live in the same country as him hand it over to him maybe then we wont here comments from him like these ones anymore

as for the post by spanish4ever aka CSCVAW I hope this account of yours is banned soon as well

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Nov 2 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]98148[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
........... i think a lot of it is just to try and unsettle your competition.


Yes that's it - and if Stoner is really beginning to complain about Rossi getting more credit than him, (but is it true? I've not read the article...) then I'm afraid Rossi's psychological warfare might be making a dent in him?!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DRILL666 @ Nov 2 2007, 10:38 AM) [snapback]98122[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Fan of the whole grid,me ,so I just sit back and chuckle at the backbiting.....good to be contented

Its great isn't it?

stoner is right. when rossi moved to yamaha he reminded honda that it was HIM who was the champ, not the bike. and now rossi says it's the bike and the tyres that is the champ, not the person who rides on it. I completly understand stoner!

I think it's all in his head, I haven't seen anyone who doesn't write in "CAPITAL LETTERS" say he hasn't ridden extremely well this year.

To quote VR "Stoner rode like a god"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marijke @ Nov 2 2007, 03:51 PM) [snapback]98189[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
stoner is right. when rossi moved to yamaha he reminded honda that it was HIM who was the champ, not the bike. and now rossi says it's the bike and the tyres that is the champ, not the person who rides on it. I completly understand stoner!

i dont remember his saying that ! but i do remember honda saying "anybody can win on our bike" so to me it looks like stoner got more credit than rossi got from honda

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Nov 1 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]98026[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Casey Stoner has expressed his disappointment with the people who have not given him enough credit for winning this year's MotoGP world championship.

The Australian has dominated the season in his first year with Ducati, but some of his rivals have put his success down to the bike and the tyres more than the rider.

"It seems like when I win, it's down to the tyres, and when Valentino (Rossi) wins, it's down to him," Stoner was quoted as saying by Italian magazine Motosprint.

"And every time he explains the reasons why he didn't win it seems like everyone believes him. I'm convinced we deserved the title.

"It seems like it doesn't matter what I did in that race, the way I rode. It seems like I didn't make a difference."

Stoner points out that the supposed reasons for his success changed during the year, as his success was initially put down to Ducati, and then Bridgestone, having an advantage over their rivals.

"At the beginning it was said I was winning only because of the bike, which was too fast," he added. "Later on, it was down to the tyres.

"It looks like no one has been able to find another reason why I won, besides the bike and the tyres. It looks like it's not thanks to me."

Source
I understand him but Valentino has raised the bar, if he wants the respect i think hes gonna have to do it all over again next year.

I remember Hayden even saying something similar about trying to win another championship.

At least while Rossi is still racing its harder to praise someone winning one year, it could be classed as 'lucky'


Well, he can't really say that in that way because where was he last year?
Championship contender? I think not.
Crashing? I think a hell of a lot

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marijke @ Nov 2 2007, 03:51 PM) [snapback]98189[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
stoner is right. when rossi moved to yamaha he reminded honda that it was HIM who was the champ, not the bike. and now rossi says it's the bike and the tyres that is the champ, not the person who rides on it. I completly understand stoner!


yea well thats when the rider was still more important... not as much now.

you don't see anybody coming through the field anymore, if you don't qualify well you have not much chance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Nov 2 2007, 08:28 AM) [snapback]98045[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
when Stoner switches from Ducati to say Kawasaki and wins another championship in his forst yearv on that bike, I will give him all the credit. Rossi did just that -- switched from Honda to Yamaha and won.

What a stupid statement that is, are you 10 years old or something?
Do you know how hard it is to win even one race let alone a championship, give him credit ,even if he never wins another championship he has done enough to put him on top of the pile .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pepik128 @ Nov 2 2007, 07:18 PM) [snapback]98232[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
he has done enough to put him on top of the pile .


depends how you look at it.... Hayden was top of the pile last year.

and before people say he was not a worthy champ he was consistant enough and didn't have a red ducati either

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pepik128 @ Nov 2 2007, 12:18 PM) [snapback]98232[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
What a stupid statement that is, are you 10 years old or something?
Do you know how hard it is to win even one race let alone a championship, give him credit ,even if he never wins another championship he has done enough to put him on top of the pile .
I am not dissing Stoner. But, I refuse to accept he is as good as or better than Rossi after one season.

Rossi has a championship track record:

125cc: 9th and 1st
250cc: 2nd and 1st
500cc: 2nd, 1st,
MotoGP990cc: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, and 2nd (on two different bikes)
MotoGP 800cc: 2nd


Stoner? Here goes:

125cc: 8th and 5th
250cc: 2nd
500cc: Before his time
MotoGP 990cc: 8th
MotoGp 800cc: 1st

Stoner wins one season. The season where the most changes were made -- bike displacement decreased and tire rules changed. Well, someone had to win this championship and he did. Whether he continue to win championships, remains to be seen.

While the top 10 riders in MotoGP have almost the same skill level, to win consistently race after race (ok stoner can), year after year, on different bikes takes a little more skill and other perseverence. That is all I am saying.

Rossi did not have to leave Honda after winning a few championships and move to Yamaha -- a bike which finished 7th (behind 4 hondas and 2 ducatis) in the prior year. Many people thought he was being a fool. But, when he won another championship on it they were silenced. That, to me was the crown jewel in Rossi's achievements -- taking a bike that finished 7thin the previous year and winning a championship with it.