Silly Season 2016

baturro said:

Word in the Spanish motorsport news is that HRC is quite content with Dani being on the team. More importantly, HRC is content not rocking the boat on the Marquez/Pedrosa partnership. Dani has a ton of experience and is not a threat to Marquez. They also get along and there is no turbulence between them. HRC is bankin on Marquez maintaining and increasing his level of racing, so they arn't really searching for the next star just yet.

Makes sense to me.

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Suppo alluded to exactly this in an interview with Gav Emmett last weekend.

J4rn0 said:

No way, you do it because you just can't help it -- proof is, you always do it that I post or not. It's called compulsion, or obsession.

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Oh poor J4rno, English isn't your first language so in the same way we misinterpreted Rossi's 'conversation' with Ezpeleta, you not only misinterpret what I say in my primary language, but you somehow seem to think you know what's going on inside my head.

Get your head out of your ass.

I read you right man, -- I was informing you that Lorenzo has already signed with Ducati, so "if and when" is obsolete.

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Thanks Mr Ducati, but I'll wait until I read an official statement from you know, Ducati themselves.

There is not doubt that this Ducati is going to win races -- it's rather surprising it didn't already.

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Funny, people said exactly the same thing about the GP15, then we got end of year interviews about disappointment within Ducati that they didn't meet their objective. to win one race.

What Rossi got in 2011 was a bike that, with Stoner on it, ended the 2010 season in 4th place. Next year Lorenzo will get the the latest version of a bike that Stoner considers capable to win the title.

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Stoner may consider it a title winner, but opinions don't win titles. At present the best Ducati is in 6th place, and that's a GP14.2. Was that a title winner? Here is an article from early last year where Ducati said that the GP15 could win a race

Ducati feels late MotoGP bike can still win in 2015 - MotoGP - Autosport

It didn't, so your argument that the GP16 is a TITLE winner based on Stoners assumption, when it hasn't even won a race yet, is laughable at best.

I'm not arguing the Ducati is a much improved bike since Gigi's arrival, but I laugh at how people are already anticipating Lorenzo actually being successful on the thing by making statements that the bike is so good, a mistake many made with the 2007-2010 era Ducati.

The problem is J4arno, is that you are so arrogant, pompous and aloof that it becomes very hard to like you. That, coupled with your age old Rossi obsession, makes you unable to maturely debate, nor admit when you aren't always right.

JPSLotus said:

I agree with that, the smart play would have been to go after MM because in GP you need a rider who can ride around any issues a bike has, or is capable of riding around changes to a bike made because of rules changes. Stoner was the only guy who could do that in the 4-stroke era. If MM was going to be riding the GP17 I am certain Ducati would win the world title. Early prediction here is MM bags the title this year and the next two years as well since Lorenzo just cut his own throat. Still makes me wonder why Gigi was so insistent on Lorenzo instead of MM? Unless Stoner might have said MM's entourage isn't what Ducati wants.

I like people who are principled for the most part, but their weakness is pride. Leaving Yamaha I guess was inevitable once Lin Jarvis made it abundantly clear he was going to support Rossi through everything. Lorenzo backed himself into a corner and decided leaving was the only option. If he wanted to be assured of winning, Yamaha was the safe bet in spite of all the Rossi-centric BS. Freedom comes with a price and I hope he is ready for it.

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I doubt very much MM was procurable by Ducati. He knows his ambitions are more realisable with HRC, and he is a Spaniard probably with all kinds of Spanish sponsorship, presumably including Repsol.

I find it hard to fathom Jorge's decision if he is going to Ducati as everyone thinks. I doubt the bike is ever going to suit him as well as a Yamaha as you say, and if he wants more titles he should stay where he is. He is imo far more likely to contend against MM than Rossi, and I think this will become apparent before much more of the season is done.

I hope he is not repeating Rossi's error, motivated by arrogance/pride and pique. Perhaps as Jumkie has posited being Rossi's team-mate has become so unpleasant that it is Ducati or (the Stoner choice) nothing.

#22 said:

Oh poor J4rno, English isn't your first language so in the same way we misinterpreted Rossi's 'conversation' with Ezpeleta, you not only misinterpret what I say in my primary language, but you somehow seem to think you know what's going on inside my head.

Get your head out of your ass.



Thanks Mr Ducati, but I'll wait until I read an official statement from you know, Ducati themselves.



Funny, people said exactly the same thing about the GP15, then we got end of year interviews about disappointment within Ducati that they didn't meet their objective. to win one race.



Stoner may consider it a title winner, but opinions don't win titles. At present the best Ducati is in 6th place, and that's a GP14.2. Was that a title winner? Here is an article from early last year where Ducati said that the GP15 could win a race

Ducati feels late MotoGP bike can still win in 2015 - MotoGP - Autosport

It didn't, so your argument that the GP16 is a TITLE winner based on Stoners assumption, when it hasn't even won a race yet, is laughable at best.

I'm not arguing the Ducati is a much improved bike since Gigi's arrival, but I laugh at how people are already anticipating Lorenzo actually being successful on the thing by making statements that the bike is so good, a mistake many made with the 2007-2010 era Ducati.

The problem is J4arno, is that you are so arrogant, pompous and aloof that it becomes very hard to like you. That, coupled with your age old Rossi obsession, makes you unable to maturely debate, nor admit when you aren't always right.

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Look -- the ones obsessed with Rossi are the people like you, internet peeps removed from reality who insist on a cosmic Rossi-Dorna conspiracy even when the world of MotoGP has already moved on into the Marquez era since 2013. Wake up...

Regarding Lorenzo and Ducati, we'll wait and see. We'll also see if you will have the intellectual honesty to admit, in case, that I knew better? I'm not holding my breath... :happy:

I'll admit you knew better if and when Lorenzo wins on a Ducati. Given that will be at least 2 years from now, I very much doubt in that time you will have admitted anyone knew anything better than you. I notice you didn't acknowledge any of my Ducati comments which proved yours to be wrong.

And FYI look at my last post and your last post...who mentioned a certain Italian Rider? Not me

J4rn0 said:

Look -- the ones obsessed with Rossi are the people like you, internet peeps removed from reality who insist on a cosmic Rossi-Dorna conspiracy even when the world of MotoGP has already moved on into the Marquez era since 2013. Wake up...

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I substantially agree, although Jorge pushed him fairly close in 2013 in what was admittedly his rookie year, and may have pushed him closer sans a fractured clavicle or 2 .

The only problem with your narrative is that your boy Vale, creditable though his performance last year was until the pre-Sepang press conferences, has pretty much poisoned the well for any Marquez era by his end of season antics.

#22 said:

I'll admit you knew better if and when Lorenzo wins on a Ducati. Given that will be at least 2 years from now, I very much doubt in that time you will have admitted anyone knew anything better than you. I notice you didn't acknowledge any of my Ducati comments which proved yours to be wrong.

And FYI look at my last post and your last post...who mentioned a certain Italian Rider? Not me

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Actually, you'll have to admit that I knew better as soon as it becomes official that Lorenzo signed with Ducati (something I said when nobody here believed it, and that you still doubted even today).

Then, you'll have to admit the same also when Ducati wins a race, if it happens sooner than two years from now (two years being your chosen time frame).

It's not my fault if you keep digging a deeper hole for yourself.

What, like you were right about the GP15 winning a race?

If by reading all the other media we have access to and 'predicting' Lorenzo would sign with Ducati then yes, you are a genius..here is your award!

I'm not digging myself into a hole at all, this is the internet and if 'winning an argument' and being right in your own head is that important than having a life, more power to you.

Oh and on that note...I predict a Yamaha will win another race this year...therefore I am better than all of you.

#22 said:

If by reading all the other media we have access to and 'predicting' Lorenzo would sign with Ducati then yes, you are a genius..here is your award!

I'm not digging myself into a hole at all, this is the internet and if 'winning an argument' and being right in your own head is that important than having a life, more power to you.

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To be fair, over the years J4rn0 has a good record for being informed about matters Ducati, if not so much for predicting the performance of riders other than Stoner on that bike, along with most others in regard to the latter.

michaelm said:

I substantially agree, although Jorge pushed him fairly close in 2013 in what was admittedly his rookie year, and may have pushed him closer sans a fractured clavicle or 2 .

The only problem with your narrative is that your boy Vale, creditable though his performance last year was until the pre-Sepang press conferences, has pretty much poisoned the well for any Marquez era by his end of season antics.

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Hi Michael, just the one comment there. I think if Lorenzo hadn't suffered his broken clavicles and lost many points due to missing the race and his recovery, he'd have taken the title that year.
Furthermore 2014 he would've been much better prepared, I doubt he'd have had the nightmare season he had, by his standards. Not that I'm insinuating he'd have taken Marc as that lad was on fire. I do think Lorenzo would've pushed him and Rossi harder, maybe even beaten the latter.
Just my thoughts though, we're all allowed our own opinions on here, without mocking and insulting each other, I'm sure you'll agree.
As for Lorenzo joining Ducati, I feel it could be a big mistake even if it is driven by the toxic atmosphere Rossi has instilled into the garage, even the strongest have a point where they cry no more. If he does go, all upgrades will cease, handing Rossi a huge advantage, so Marquez will in theory oven recent form be the only one to stand in the way of Rossi's "deserved" 10th title.
After that it'll be a case of if's and but's with the Ducati and how Lorenzo performs on it. After Honda holding Rossi to his contract and preventing him riding it until the last minute, you can bet he and Jarvis will have their heads together to do likewise and anything else to slow Lorenzo's progress in 2017.
I just hope things don't spoil Lorenzo's relationship with Yamaha for the future, as an avid Yamaha fan I'll be sad to see him leave as he's been the only truly loyal rider since Rainey, I hoped to see the guy see out his career with them.
In fact upon him joining as a youngster I hoped to see him get along with Rossi and form a super team with Rossi passing his knowledge on to him upon his retirement. Nice sentiment I know but it wasn't going to happen as Lorenzo says in his book how Rossi snubbed his attempts at friendship and roundly criticised him for joining the team. Who knew just how savage and nasty things would get?...

Sorry, it was a little more than one comment wasn't it? LOL

yamfan said:

Hi Michael, just the one comment there. I think if Lorenzo hadn't suffered his broken clavicles and lost many points due to missing the race and his recovery, he'd have taken the title that year.
Furthermore 2014 he would've been much better prepared, I doubt he'd have had the nightmare season he had, by his standards. Not that I'm insinuating he'd have taken Marc as that lad was on fire. I do think Lorenzo would've pushed him and Rossi harder, maybe even beaten the latter.
Just my thoughts though, we're all allowed our own opinions on here, without mocking and insulting each other, I'm sure you'll agree.
As for Lorenzo joining Ducati, I feel it could be a big mistake even if it is driven by the toxic atmosphere Rossi has instilled into the garage, even the strongest have a point where they cry no more. If he does go, all upgrades will cease, handing Rossi a huge advantage, so Marquez will in theory oven recent form be the only one to stand in the way of Rossi's "deserved" 10th title.
After that it'll be a case of if's and but's with the Ducati and how Lorenzo performs on it. After Honda holding Rossi to his contract and preventing him riding it until the last minute, you can bet he and Jarvis will have their heads together to do likewise and anything else to slow Lorenzo's progress in 2017.
I just hope things don't spoil Lorenzo's relationship with Yamaha for the future, as an avid Yamaha fan I'll be sad to see him leave as he's been the only truly loyal rider since Rainey, I hoped to see the guy see out his career with them.
In fact upon him joining as a youngster I hoped to see him get along with Rossi and form a super team with Rossi passing his knowledge on to him upon his retirement. Nice sentiment I know but it wasn't going to happen as Lorenzo says in his book how Rossi snubbed his attempts at friendship and roundly criticised him for joining the team. Who knew just how savage and nasty things would get?...

Sorry, it was a little more than one comment wasn't it? LOL

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I am a Lorenzo fan, you will get no argument from me.

Jorge did crash in 2013 and MM didn't, not seriously anyway, despite looking like doing so all year to everyone including Jorge, and me, so in the end you can only credit MM for winning, particularly given it was his rookie year. It was the tenacity of Jorge's title defense that year, and his previous defense probably against the odds in 2011, which converted me to the Jorge cause, however.

michaelm said:

Sure, I just think it is unfair to say he would rate with Jorge, who has won 3 titles, if not for various conspiracies, we have enough of that. Whether or not there have been conspiracies in general I see absolutely no evidence of any in Jorge's favour.

My opinion of him is that he is a very accomplished journeyman. If he got better equipment when Dani was out, well Dani was out quite a lot, and he still didn't much look like winning let alone dominating dry races. When HRC tired of not winning with Dani as lead rider, they got Stoner, unpopular with multiple parties though he was, when it surely would have been simpler to just upgrade Dovi's bike if that would have worked. I found years ago I had to rate Jorge as at least equal to, and possibly better than, Stoner in general terms if not on any bike in any conditions.

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Not implying there was a conspiracy that favored Jorge. He was a great rider on a great bike. Stoner moreso. With that kind of competition - I think Dovi did really well in his last season at Honda - despite being the number three guy on the team. I didn't think back then, that anyone was capable of beating Stoner. I do think that Dovi would have equaled lorenzo on points that year if he'd had more consistent support from Honda.

Regarding the hire of Stoner as opposed to upgrading Dovi's bike - I would point out that it was simply a no-brainer. He was already a proven champion and he'd had a previous relationship with Honda, and at that point, Honda had gone so long without a championship, they weren't about to take any chances. Stoner was a sure bet. I certainly don't rate Dovi up there with Stoner - but on the right bike, I think he can consistently be on the podium. So, maybe not an "alien" but more competitive than any of the alien teammates of recent year; ie Spies, Edwards etc. It will be interesting (assuming Dovi is still with Duc) next year seeing how his performance compares with Lorenzo's.

levigarrett said:

Makes sense to me as well. I hope it's true.

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Nothing against Dani - but I'd like to see a more competitive rider on that bike who could consistently challenge for podiums. There's already enough mid-pack riders in the game.

michaelm said:

I doubt very much MM was procurable by Ducati. He knows his ambitions are more realisable with HRC, and he is a Spaniard probably with all kinds of Spanish sponsorship, presumably including Repsol.

I find it hard to fathom Jorge's decision if he is going to Ducati as everyone thinks. I doubt the bike is ever going to suit him as well as a Yamaha as you say, and if he wants more titles he should stay where he is. He is imo far more likely to contend against MM than Rossi, and I think this will become apparent before much more of the season is done.

I hope he is not repeating Rossi's error, motivated by arrogance/pride and pique. Perhaps as Jumkie has posited being Rossi's team-mate has become so unpleasant that it is Ducati or (the Stoner choice) nothing.

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I think anyone is procurable for the right price save for Rossi who even if Ducati offered him $30 million a year right now would never go back because of how badly he misplayed the Ducati card in 2011.

I do think MM is happy at HRC right now...if there was any unhappiness, it's probably down to the bike not being right where he wants it. But it's almost irrelevant right now since he's making it work in spite of the Magneti Marelli advantage both Ducati and Yamaha have. Things can only get better, and they will get better. But if Ducati had made a serious play to try and snag his services, I think he would have listened. Why not? The money would always be outrageous that they were going to offer. But as you say, the Repsol sponsorship probably counts for something big in the overall scheme of things, and might make him disinclined to ever leave HRC especially if Repsol can apply pressure where needed to HRC.

Assuming Lorenzo announces he is in fact going to Ducati at Jerez, I feel this is almost a similar situation to the one that got Rossi to .... off to Ducati. Granted they aren't asking him to be a number 2, but they are not treating him as a guy who just won the world title, and has won multiple world titles while VR has done nothing since 2009. This is all endemic of a much larger problem at Yamaha where decisions are no longer being made with a thought to the future, but with a thought to placating VR. Obviously in a reasonable world, JL would have been offered a much better contract than VR, and before VR was offered a contract. Offering the contract at the same time was a huge slap in the face to Lorenzo, and he's making decisions all based off of this...which in itself isn't a problem. The Ducati is in far better shape than when VR went there in 2011. But at the end of the day, it gives VR everything he wanted for 2011 from Yamaha but couldn't get. So now instead of being 31/32, he's 5 years older at 37, and they've kowtowed to him in spite of his advanced age for motorcycle racing. It's unprecedented and totally insane.

Keshav said:

Not implying there was a conspiracy that favored Jorge. He was a great rider on a great bike. Stoner moreso. With that kind of competition - I think Dovi did really well in his last season at Honda - despite being the number three guy on the team. I didn't think back then, that anyone was capable of beating Stoner. I do think that Dovi would have equaled lorenzo on points that year if he'd had more consistent support from Honda.



Regarding the hire of Stoner as opposed to upgrading Dovi's bike - I would point out that it was simply a no-brainer. He was already a proven champion and he'd had a previous relationship with Honda, and at that point, Honda had gone so long without a championship, they weren't about to take any chances. Stoner was a sure bet. I certainly don't rate Dovi up there with Stoner - but on the right bike, I think he can consistently be on the podium. So, maybe not an "alien" but more competitive than any of the alien teammates of recent year; ie Spies, Edwards etc. It will be interesting (assuming Dovi is still with Duc) next year seeing how his performance compares with Lorenzo's.

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At that time, the Honda was superior to the Yamaha, the Honda walked away down the straights and wasn't that bad cornering either. Casey exploited the Honda's speed with his usual bravery on the brakes and early throttle to take a deserved title and if not for the tyre debacle would've repeated it in 2012.
The Yamaha turning point was when it gained its gearbox allowing riders to corner fast without upsetting it's poise.

baturro said:

Word in the Spanish motorsport news is that HRC is quite content with Dani being on the team. More importantly, HRC is content not rocking the boat on the Marquez/Pedrosa partnership. Dani has a ton of experience and is not a threat to Marquez. They also get along and there is no turbulence between them. HRC is bankin on Marquez maintaining and increasing his level of racing, so they arn't really searching for the next star just yet.

Makes sense to me.

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I have said that since Rossi came back to Yamaha, he is good enough to steal a title if everything falls his way, im not sure Dani is, and that is a Yamaha advantage. Every year it seems, Dani gives us a little taste of what he might be capable of and we say, wait till next year, he has figured it out. Then that year starts and for whatever reason, Dani just cant get up to speed , falls way behind the leaders, comes on strong towards the end and we say, he 's got it, wait till next year, wash, spin, repeat. Like i said, i have been an advocate for keeping Dani his last 3 contracts because there simply wasnt anyone who was faster, or fit the team better than he did. There are a bunch of reasons to keep Dani and keeping him does make sense, but Honda has put all their hopes of winning on Marquez. Dani recently said it was a shame he wrecked at COTA because he had turned the corner, saying he had changed his approach just that weekend to riding this version of the RCV and it had payed huge dividends. We will see. If in the next 3-4 races, Dani is still running 5-6 pace, i would be looking to replace him..

yamfan said:

At that time, the Honda was superior to the Yamaha, the Honda walked away down the straights and wasn't that bad cornering either. Casey exploited the Honda's speed with his usual bravery on the brakes and early throttle to take a deserved title and if not for the tyre debacle would've repeated it in 2012.
The Yamaha turning point was when it gained its gearbox allowing riders to corner fast without upsetting it's poise.

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At that time I would certainly have been the first to agree with you - tho many have counter-pointed that

Top speed or trap speed does not win races

and

The Yamaha was more tractable overall and kinder to tires.

Both of which to a degree negated some of Honda's advantage. As I recall, the seamless gearbox was Honda's most significant performance edge.
The Yamaha camp were constantly commenting on it.

povol said:

I have said that since Rossi came back to Yamaha, he is good enough to steal a title if everything falls his way, im not sure Dani is, and that is a Yamaha advantage. Every year it seems, Dani gives us a little taste of what he might be capable of and we say, wait till next year, he has figured it out. Then that year starts and for whatever reason, Dani just cant get up to speed , falls way behind the leaders, comes on strong towards the end and we say, he 's got it, wait till next year, wash, spin, repeat. Like i said, i have been an advocate for keeping Dani his last 3 contracts because there simply wasnt anyone who was faster, or fit the team better than he did. There are a bunch of reasons to keep Dani and keeping him does make sense, but Honda has put all their hopes of winning on Marquez. Dani recently said it was a shame he wrecked at COTA because he had turned the corner, saying he had changed his approach just that weekend to riding this version of the RCV and it had payed huge dividends. We will see. If in the next 3-4 races, Dani is still running 5-6 pace, i would be looking to replace him..

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I don't think Honda is going to replace Dani for at least another season or two. As things stand, you really need a veteran rider next to MM who can help with the development of the RCV, and also more importantly understands that he is there to be a supporting figure to MM where his goal is to help bag enough points to help deliver the constructor's championship to Honda.

I don't see them pairing MM with a fresh out of Moto3 or Moto2 rider because of MM's age. The issue is who on the grid meets that veteran status and will accept being a supporting figure outside of Pedrosa? The pickings are really slim right now. If he weren't such a crash prone ......, Cuntslow might actually have fit this bill.

Not to mention the shitstorm of politics and drama from Emilio Alzamora if a young up and coming rider was hired to replace Pedrosa and started giving Marquez a hard time.