Silly Season 2016

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Arrabbiata1 said:
View attachment 11969
Click to expand...


He did well with Honda. Moreover he was the number three rider and stuck with being the parts donkey ala Nicky, testing out all the new crap before it was foisted on the riders with preferential treatment.

Mayhaps a tinfoil speculation, but there was a popular perception, that I shared, that whenever Dani was out sick, Dovi's bike was mysteriously faster and his results dramatically better.

He had numerous podiums the first season.

Numerous podiums in the 2nd season (and one pole)

Ended up 3rd in points in 2011 behind Stoner and Lorenzo who were both in top form.

Not too shabby. Had he replaced Dani in 2012 I reckon he'd have had the team support and experience (and confidence) with the Honda to vie for the Championship.
 
JPSLotus said:
I've been thinking, short of Stoner coming back, Ducati would be better off fielding Dovizioso and Iannone in 2017. The Lorenzo signing IMO is not a good move for either party assuming this is all 100% accurate. The Ducati is never going to be a ride-on-rails bike ala the M1...and with Stoner's input I have no reason to believe the bike is ever going to go down a directional path like that. Dovi and Iannone and Stoner are all riders that are perfectly fine with the bike dancing around and not being a perfect specimen of a machine. So for as long as the GP characteristics are of that nature, the smart play is to have rider(s) who are okay with this.

You might think I'm crazy, but I'd be more inclined to put Scott Redding on one of the GP17's than Lorenzo. He's really showing his strength on the GP15 so far, and I admit I was one who questioned his ability when he was on the Marc VDS last year...but clearly as a few here posted, he was far better than that bike was allowing him to show. Doing a lineup of Redding and Iannone might actually be better long haul. Lorenzo may very well win a number of races and even a world title for Ducati, but he might also do neither...and forgive me, but being on the M1 all these years has helped cover his weaknesses. Comes down to philosophy of whether you want a guy who will deliver when everything is perfect, of if you'd rather stick with guys who can ride the bike through all sorts of conditions.
Click to expand...

Do you think that Jorge signing with Ducati helps or hurts the chances of Stoner making a full comeback? I'm hoping that Stoner will attempt a comeback of some sorts, but with the Jorge to Ducati deal looking like it's more of a when than an if I'm getting a bit worried that it could cut into Stoners chance for a comeback.
 
#22 said:
I'm glad you noted that J4rno, for if and when Lorenzo moves to Ducati and at the very least wins races, then no-one can say the bike is better because of Rossi's input :)
Click to expand...

The day you can post on any subject without an uncalled-for dig at Rossi, it will really be an event. :rolleyes:

About the "if and when": Lorenzo will go to Ducati. The bike can and will win races, with or without Jorge Lorenzo.

Dovi is the most deserving Ducati rider now, and I really hope he can win a race before the end of the current season.
 
TheJuice46 said:
Do you think that Jorge signing with Ducati helps or hurts the chances of Stoner making a full comeback? I'm hoping that Stoner will attempt a comeback of some sorts, but with the Jorge to Ducati deal looking like it's more of a when than an if I'm getting a bit worried that it could cut into Stoners chance for a comeback.
Click to expand...

I don't think Stoner is ever coming back unless it's in one of these scenarios...

Wild Card...if Ducati can't score a race victory this year prior to Phillip Island, that's literally the only venue I could see him riding at.

The other is if he fills in for an injured rider who is going to be out for 2 or more races.
 
TheJuice46 said:
Do you think that Jorge signing with Ducati helps or hurts the chances of Stoner making a full comeback? I'm hoping that Stoner will attempt a comeback of some sorts, but with the Jorge to Ducati deal looking like it's more of a when than an if I'm getting a bit worried that it could cut into Stoners chance for a comeback.
Click to expand...
Stoner is never coming back.

What you need to understand is why Casey Stoner left the sport. He left because this sport is a Dorna created Rossi-centric yellow kingdom. You want to know what has changed since Stoner left? The Yellow infusion of influence has become increasingly solidified, that is, its got worse not better! You think Casey observes the sport particularly since Philip Island last year and doesn't see what has become of MotoGP? This is the man who publicly stated the following of the infamous Sepang aggravated assault by Rossi:

"If anyone else had done what Valentino did we would have been black flagged immediately, no questions asked."

Read this statement several times until you extract its full meaning. What is the statement saying on its face and the more profound message?

That statement is not an indictment on the mere 'incompetence' of Race Direction, it's saying Race Direction is 'corrupt' (big difference). It's not saying the sport is 'unjust', it's saying the sport is 'corrupt' (big difference). It is saying Rossi's exceptional treatment is corruption because it purposefully disregards the principles of authentic competition. It is saying Valentino Rossi has utterly skewed and corrupted the very notion of a championship. Casey Stoner is saying MotoGP is .........

What has changed since Stoner retired? It's got worse! Back when Casey competed, we could only point to vague circumstances that were leaked to the public and we connected the dots. Now, the entire corruption has become so brazen that we can observe it play out in public. Part of the reason Lorenzo is leaving is because of the Toxic Kingdom that is infused in all aspects of the sport, creating a hell of a working environment, especially when you consider Lin Jarvis formulating a defense for Rossi, now contrast that to Casey Stoner's statement above about the same event. You think Casey Stoner is going to return to this reality?

Repeat these words: Casey Stoner is never making a comeback.
 
Last edited:
If Stoner came back, by the time Dorna got done changing the rules, Ducati would be fielding the equivalent of a Ducati 749 from 2003.
 
TheJuice46 said:
Do you think that Jorge signing with Ducati helps or hurts the chances of Stoner making a full comeback? I'm hoping that Stoner will attempt a comeback of some sorts, but with the Jorge to Ducati deal looking like it's more of a when than an if I'm getting a bit worried that it could cut into Stoners chance for a comeback.
Click to expand...

This obsession with the return of Stoner that ain't gonna happen, has the marks of the cultish mania of the Orthodox Jews constantly finding "clues" pointing to the return of the Messiah. ....... I count myself as big a fan as anyone. I wore my Casey Stoner t-shirt to the Laguna meet up knowing full well it would get me a few dark stares (it did too) but really Stoner's like that girlfriend who dumped you in 5th grade, over whom you mooned and sang love songs to whilst walking down shady streets. Time to move all. :) Gotta go now, I think I just saw Elvis walking down the street.
 
J4rn0 said:
The day you can post on any subject without an uncalled-for dig at Rossi, it will really be an event. :rolleyes:

About the "if and when": Lorenzo will go to Ducati. The bike can and will win races, with or without Jorge Lorenzo.

Dovi is the most deserving Ducati rider now, and I really hope he can win a race before the end of the current season.
Click to expand...

I posted it purely to get a reaction from you, which is what I got :)

My "If and when" was regarding Lorenzo's move to Ducati, not whether it will win races. As I recall you seem convinced of Ducati wins the last time a WC joined them.
 
JPSLotus said:
Part of racing is bringing the machine home regardless of others crashing out. 6th is 6th. He's already scored a higher finish in his third race with Pramac than anything factory Ducati rider Andrea Iannone did in his first season with Pramac. Seriously, go check out his results for 2013 with Pramac. Lots of 9ths and 10ths.

Satellite bikes generally don't run in the top 6 without crashes or failures from the factory bikes.

Redding does have speed and has been looking very good out there early on since he's finally gotten a real bike.
Click to expand...

Then Barbera should get Iannone or Dovi's seat, he is sixth in points ahead of all Ducati's
 
JPSLotus said:
That's why I'm not as high on him as a lot of other folks here are.
Click to expand...
Haha, bro, ok so who do you rate higher than Dovi? That is who would replace him as a teammate to Lorenzo? Redding? It's reasonable, I rate Redding high too, though frankly I'm not so sure he would have been looking at three podiums in a row to start the season. I do rate Dovi higher than Redding atm. So who else would you replace Dovi with at Ducati?

Arrabi knows better, and I'd say that pic was partially tongue and cheek. Dovi didn't thrive in an environment where he had to threaten legal action for HRC to honor his contract, that's not surprising. This is an example if those intangibles, the second class citizenship seemingly acceptable for those lacking clout.

Currently Dovi is matching or surpassing his teammate, who I rate very highly. I honestly don't know who I would replace Dovi with. I would NOT even replace him with Lorenzo on a Ducati. I think the only person that theoretically would be available that I think could beat Dovi on a Ducati are Marquez and Iannone.
 
Last edited:
JPSLotus said:
If Stoner came back, by the time Dorna got done changing the rules, Ducati would be fielding the equivalent of a Ducati 749 from 2003.
Click to expand...
Haha, except they'd make them run DOT Dunlops.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Jumkie said:
Haha, bro, ok so who do you rate higher than Dovi? That is who would replace him as a teammate to Lorenzo? Redding? It's reasonable, I rate Redding high too, though frankly I'm not so sure he would have been looking at three podiums in a row to start the season. I do rate Dovi higher than Redding atm. So who else would you replace Dovi with at Ducati?

Arrabi knows better, and I'd say that pic was partially tongue and cheek. Dovi didn't thrive in an environment where he had to threaten legal action for HRC to honor his contract, that's not surprising. This is an example if those intangibles, the second class citizenship seemingly acceptable for those lacking clout.

Currently Dovi is matching or surpassing his teammate, who I rate very highly. I honestly don't know who I would replace Dovi with. I would NOT even replace him with Lorenzo on a Ducati. I think the only person that theoretically would be available that I think could beat Dovi on a Ducati are Marquez and Iannone.
Click to expand...

Thing is, I wouldn't replace either Dovi or Iannone for 2017 the more I thought about it.

Replacing either with Lorenzo is a cataclysmically bad move imo. It's going to put a bullseye on Ducati if it even looks like he might be in the running for the title. I can see Rossi singing to Carmelo about how something has to be done. Lorenzo thinks he will be getting to a less toxic environment, which is true. Except the reach of Rossipleta isn't going to be deterred by him being at a different team. Lorenzo may quickly figure out why Stoner opted to retire.

My point is more that if you were going to replace either current factory Ducati rider, I would go with Redding over Lorenzo because he's not going to be seen as "threatening" to Dorna's cash cow whereas Lorenzo is a perpetual threat. Only it's easier to .... with Lorenzo because he's not going to be on a Honda, and two all you have to do is get him on an unstable bike to .... him over.

But if you had to replace one of the current Duc riders with Redding, I probably would go with replacing Dovizioso of the two. Iannone has a higher ceiling between them. Only issue is I don't know what is given up with regards to development...but that might be why the Stoner test rider thing happened. Gigi also exploited the hell out of the rules to get the GP15 and now GP16 into a great position. Clearly Ducati thinks Lorenzo can take them to the next level that the current riders simply are not able to do. I don't exactly agree right now because of the political can of worms that is likely to be opened.

As for who I rate better than Dovizioso right now? Lorenzo on the M1 is better, MM obviously, a year ago I would have said Rossi but not right now unless tire construction changes which is always in play, Iannone (not right at this moment because of his calamities but COTA was a step in the right direction). Vinales will probably be there in the mix at certain circuits, but I would put him at equal at best. However the season could be shaping up to be a Lorenzo-Marquez battle with everyone else looking for whatever scraps they can find...so we could be looking at another Honda/Yamaha P1 lockout for the entire season. I'm simply of the belief Dovizioso is missing that last couple of tenths that would put him in consistent running for P1 every weekend.
 
JPSLotus said:
Thing is, I wouldn't replace either Dovi or Iannone for 2017 the more I thought about it.

Replacing either with Lorenzo is a cataclysmically bad move imo. It's going to put a bullseye on Ducati if it even looks like he might be in the running for the title. I can see Rossi singing to Carmelo about how something has to be done. Lorenzo thinks he will be getting to a less toxic environment, which is true. Except the reach of Rossipleta isn't going to be deterred by him being at a different team. Lorenzo may quickly figure out why Stoner opted to retire.

My point is more that if you were going to replace either current factory Ducati rider, I would go with Redding over Lorenzo because he's not going to be seen as "threatening" to Dorna's cash cow whereas Lorenzo is a perpetual threat. Only it's easier to .... with Lorenzo because he's not going to be on a Honda, and two all you have to do is get him on an unstable bike to .... him over.

But if you had to replace one of the current Duc riders with Redding, I probably would go with replacing Dovizioso of the two. Iannone has a higher ceiling between them. Only issue is I don't know what is given up with regards to development...but that might be why the Stoner test rider thing happened. Gigi also exploited the hell out of the rules to get the GP15 and now GP16 into a great position. Clearly Ducati thinks Lorenzo can take them to the next level that the current riders simply are not able to do. I don't exactly agree right now because of the political can of worms that is likely to be opened.

As for who I rate better than Dovizioso right now? Lorenzo on the M1 is better, MM obviously, a year ago I would have said Rossi but not right now unless tire construction changes which is always in play, Iannone (not right at this moment because of his calamities but COTA was a step in the right direction). Vinales will probably be there in the mix at certain circuits, but I would put him at equal at best. However the season could be shaping up to be a Lorenzo-Marquez battle with everyone else looking for whatever scraps they can find...so we could be looking at another Honda/Yamaha P1 lockout for the entire season. I'm simply of the belief Dovizioso is missing that last couple of tenths that would put him in consistent running for P1 every weekend.
Click to expand...


Dovi would be ahead of Lorenzo now, barring two torpedos.
Anyway I see no lockout unless MM93 has an accident or something like that. Honda can only improve from now on, and it's already good enough for Marquez to beat the entire grid at most tracks.
 
I hear u JP. It's why I ask who would we replace Dovi at 'Ducati'. There is only one rider I think 'might' (still an IF) beat him on a 'Ducati', that is Marquez.

Lorenzo, no.
Rossi, haha. (Besides, unavailable)
Pedrosa, no.
Viñalez, no.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

#22
2024 silly season!
39 40 41
Replies
804
Views
27K
#22
#22
#22
David Emmet: A peek into the soul of Marc Marquez
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
#22
#22
P
Random Thoughts for 2020
2
Replies
26
Views
7K
michaelm
M
P
Marquez's next move and the 2020 Champion
2
Replies
36
Views
7K
birdman
birdman
P
Silly Season 2018
14 15 16
Replies
303
Views
37K
Holypuck
Holypuck

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top