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They way the ducati is now, i think he'll be very strong if he goes there next year. Imagine stoner and lorenzo in ducati.. Shiet!
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They way the ducati is now, i think he'll be very strong if he goes there next year. Imagine stoner and lorenzo in ducati.. Shiet!
Arrabbiata1
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They way the ducati is now, i think he'll be very strong if he goes there next year. Imagine stoner and lorenzo in ducati.. Shiet!
Two diametrically opposite riding styles though. It works at Yamaha because the M1 comfortably accommodates both riders preferences. However, for Lorenzo to be successful at Ducati he needs to steer development while Stoner simply tests the parts and makes it go faster. What I struggle to comprehend is how Stoner's feedback will be in any way beneficial to Jorge given such polarised styles. What I believe we can say however is if that if that bike evolves around Jorge's strengths it could become the most honed and precise weapon in the paddock.
I'm not a racer, but is it really impossible to change riding style to different bike?
as many people said, ducati had similar characteristics to honda and totally different to yamaha. and what VR did in 2011-2012, the growing opinion about riding style between different bike had become more and more common. also Cal's switch in 2014. since then everybody has a doubt if yamaha's pilots switch would had any better results with different manufactures.
if this common opinion doesn't affect JL's decision to switch to ducati, or maybe there's something JL knows that we don't know? (I assume JL was a very ambitious rider, always considering results above money)
as many people said, ducati had similar characteristics to honda and totally different to yamaha. and what VR did in 2011-2012, the growing opinion about riding style between different bike had become more and more common. also Cal's switch in 2014. since then everybody has a doubt if yamaha's pilots switch would had any better results with different manufactures.
if this common opinion doesn't affect JL's decision to switch to ducati, or maybe there's something JL knows that we don't know? (I assume JL was a very ambitious rider, always considering results above money)
It's not impossible to change riding style and still being quite fast. What is near impossible is to change it and still being the faster rider on earth...
Lorenzo leaves cause he doesnt feel at home at Yamaha. He realized that no matters what he does, Rossi will be the prefered one at Yamaha. I guess you don't need to be spanish to understand. Maybe similar to the Alonso affair at McLaren years ago.
But... he leaves? Seriously?
Lorenzo leaves cause he doesnt feel at home at Yamaha. He realized that no matters what he does, Rossi will be the prefered one at Yamaha. I guess you don't need to be spanish to understand. Maybe similar to the Alonso affair at McLaren years ago.
But... he leaves? Seriously?
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I imagine Lorenzo has the talent to adapt to the Duc. I think there will be a rough honeymoon and either more crashes or less podiums in the beginning; certainly not a Lorenzo championship the first season, but Jorge has a good work ethic and is at minimum as talented as Dovi. The most pertinent unknowns for me will be will Ducati be able to adjust their current development to suit his preferences (or at least find a happy medium between Jorge's needs and their design philosophy) and whether or not Michelin over the next 11 months develops a tire that is suited more in favor of the Japanese bikes.
Remember how wild he was the first season on the M1? If he can channel that energy again - I reckon he has a good shot at second in the points next year.
2017 will be a novel season.
BTW - I will laugh my ass off if he ends up staying at Yamaha.
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Do not forget that the chief of Ducati Corse is now a guy called Dall'Igna. Lorenzo knows Dall'Igna since his (successful) times on the Aprilia in 250, and he trusts him.
Btw, if you look at the fact that the bike already suits Dovi well, there can be little doubt that the same bike can be easily adapted for Lorenzo (or Rossi for that matter).
Any comparison to the old Ducatis is completely irrelevant, the current red bike only has the name on the tank -- and the power of the engine -- in common with Preziosi's creature.
Btw, if you look at the fact that the bike already suits Dovi well, there can be little doubt that the same bike can be easily adapted for Lorenzo (or Rossi for that matter).
Any comparison to the old Ducatis is completely irrelevant, the current red bike only has the name on the tank -- and the power of the engine -- in common with Preziosi's creature.
Jorge is rather more talented than Dovi.
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Rossi fans are already worried about the possibility that Lorenzo might win on a Ducati already? Doesn't matter what the reasons/ excuses are, if Lorenzo wins races or championships on a Ducati, the record book will say Lorenzo won at Ducati and Rossi did not.
Arrabbiata1
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Agree, but that was a tempestuous right of passage and one which Jorge emerged from as a completely different rider both in the psychological and physical sense. MotoGP as a prototype series continually evolves and is as a consequence iterative in its nature. These riders like the machinery beneath them are never the finished articles and I think that Lorenzo is the embodiment of such praxis.
I wasn't aware that anyone was effecting comparison to the early generation of Ducati - be it the 990 or the 800 which was the demon brain child of Preziosi. Creature? certainly the feral beast that Stoner tamed was less 'Preziosi's creature' - more 'Preziosi's chimera' in that in order to be fast you had to flout the very laws of physics.
What has the fact that it 'already suits Dovi well' got anything whatsoever to do with Lorenzo's potential? The bike still likes to be ridden loose and unlike Jorge, Dovi - who has an off road pedigree remember? - doesn't mind it getting crossed up and like the bike itself, thrives in greasy conditions and diminished adhesion. We are quite aware that the current Desmosedici has about as much in common with its earlier versions as the M1 that was built for your hero resembled its 2003 predecessor that existed solely it seems with the rationale to kill or maim its riders. The progress that Ducati have made is remarkable and like I said, if it is developed around Lorenzo's strengths will go from the blunt trauma of 2011 to a finely sharpened precision instrument with Lorenzo as the executioner. I am simply unable to reconcile Stoner's role as test pilot with Lorenzo's classical style.
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I've been thinking, short of Stoner coming back, Ducati would be better off fielding Dovizioso and Iannone in 2017. The Lorenzo signing IMO is not a good move for either party assuming this is all 100% accurate. The Ducati is never going to be a ride-on-rails bike ala the M1...and with Stoner's input I have no reason to believe the bike is ever going to go down a directional path like that. Dovi and Iannone and Stoner are all riders that are perfectly fine with the bike dancing around and not being a perfect specimen of a machine. So for as long as the GP characteristics are of that nature, the smart play is to have rider(s) who are okay with this.
You might think I'm crazy, but I'd be more inclined to put Scott Redding on one of the GP17's than Lorenzo. He's really showing his strength on the GP15 so far, and I admit I was one who questioned his ability when he was on the Marc VDS last year...but clearly as a few here posted, he was far better than that bike was allowing him to show. Doing a lineup of Redding and Iannone might actually be better long haul. Lorenzo may very well win a number of races and even a world title for Ducati, but he might also do neither...and forgive me, but being on the M1 all these years has helped cover his weaknesses. Comes down to philosophy of whether you want a guy who will deliver when everything is perfect, of if you'd rather stick with guys who can ride the bike through all sorts of conditions.
You might think I'm crazy, but I'd be more inclined to put Scott Redding on one of the GP17's than Lorenzo. He's really showing his strength on the GP15 so far, and I admit I was one who questioned his ability when he was on the Marc VDS last year...but clearly as a few here posted, he was far better than that bike was allowing him to show. Doing a lineup of Redding and Iannone might actually be better long haul. Lorenzo may very well win a number of races and even a world title for Ducati, but he might also do neither...and forgive me, but being on the M1 all these years has helped cover his weaknesses. Comes down to philosophy of whether you want a guy who will deliver when everything is perfect, of if you'd rather stick with guys who can ride the bike through all sorts of conditions.
Who won the Jerez 2011 race?
Jorge is still not too bad in full wet conditions. He lost his mojo in mixed conditions after Assen 2013 imo. Whether he can get it back is another question. He still won the title last year despite an unusual number of wet or mixed condition races in any case.
The trouble is regardless of Jorge's or Dovi's talent in such conditions, MM is certainly capable of riding in them, as well as being fast in the dry, and seems to have now tempered his general approach so that he probably can't be relied on to crash himself out of the championship this year as he did last year.
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A number of people have said he doesn't ride well in the mixed because he lacks confidence in knowing what the track is giving him and having the grip to boot. I don't think this down to Assen 2013, and an article I read recently mentioned that he was like this before Assen 2013. It's more of the type of rider he is where he needs to be 100% confident in grip levels to compete effectively. Think about this, of the top riders, he's the only one who really needs the bike to be perfectly responsive. MM by contrast just needs the bike to be able to accelerate out of corners without too much wheelspin, otherwise is perfectly fine with the bike sliding around or the front wobbling.
Lorenzo also nearly blew the title with that shunt at Misano when he got baited into staying out too long on the wet tires, and then pushed too hard on cold slicks. If the race is either fully dry, or fully wet, he'll be fine. It's in between that things become more difficult for him. That's why I don't think going to Ducati is the smartest of moves since the Ducati has never been that ride-on-rails bike...if they can set the bike up that way it will make a difference...but if they can, the question becomes are they giving up something to make it a calmer machine?
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What exactly has Redding done that has shown you his strength.
He finished 10th at Qatar behind Barbera who rides an antiquated machine, and would have finished 12 if not for others in front of him crashing. DNF at Argentina, not his fault, but again was running where he was running because of crashes of other riders in front of him. Cota, same story, 6th with 3 riders in front of him crashing.His normal position is 10th . When he starts actually racing for top 6- then he will have shown something.
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Part of racing is bringing the machine home regardless of others crashing out. 6th is 6th. He's already scored a higher finish in his third race with Pramac than anything factory Ducati rider Andrea Iannone did in his first season with Pramac. Seriously, go check out his results for 2013 with Pramac. Lots of 9ths and 10ths.
Satellite bikes generally don't run in the top 6 without crashes or failures from the factory bikes.
Redding does have speed and has been looking very good out there early on since he's finally gotten a real bike.
Arrabbiata1
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The radical new hairstyle?
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I did say "at minimum". I was understating in order to illustrate a higher likelihood of his having superior results, without specifically quantifying just how much better. I mean 10%, 30%? Hard to say without actually seeing them on identical bikes. I believe Dovi has never really had a fair chance to demonstrate his potential.
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Maybe that's what got Rossi promoted for a performance not too dissimilar to Scott Redding's on a Ducati. Granted, Scott's bike is a year old model.
