Silly Season 2016

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Rossi will only be happy with a nobody for a teammate.
I am tiring of this stupid show.
It is only out of respect for Lorenzo and a few others that I am paying any attention going forward.
 
Tha Ambassador said:
This fading away of history is sad but inevitable as I see it. History is written by the victors, not the losers.

It seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that tires play the biggest part in winning a championship. It sounds like they're more important than rider skill and even the bikes themselves. My question is, why can't we as fans see at least one season where every rider receives tires that are engineered to absolutely conform to their riding style? What I've been reading suggests that this is possible, with reports being that Rossi was given tires specifically tailored to allow him to win. This would "level" the playing field more than any spec ecu or tire could allowing every rider to be able to ride to their full potential. I think that would be awesome.

Now obviously this will never happen but I would love to see the outcome if it ever would.
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With due respect, this is a rehash of "the bike rides itself" theorem aimed at Stoner back when.
 
michaelm said:
As you know I agree with everything in your post after "that's what happens when" and have made most of those arguments myself.

I simply don't agree Rossi was never any good though, and for me personally (not you, your view is obviously different) to argue so would mean descending to the level of fanaticism of the Rossi "boppers" who defend the many sins you have listed.

I hesitate to say this to you given you are better versed in debate and logical fallacies than I am, but to say you can only win on 4 bikes on the grid which has obviously been the case for a number of years now is to some extent a syllogism imo, because while being on those bikes is obviously a major advantage they have in recent years had 4 very good riders, and 3 (or all 4 in the rare periods Dani has full health and mojo) have to have an off day or bike problems for another rider to win a race; individual riders among the 4 can be and have been beaten by other riders. You can add Rossi ensuring the absence of a competitive rider on one of the 4 rides for a number of years to your litany of Rossi's sins if you want with no complaint from me, btw.

Nevertheless we do have examples of riders better than many being on one of the 4 bikes concerned and not winning overly much, Dovi in particular, but famously Mad Max in the past who got to ride for both marques, and to some extent Spies and even Edwards. I also believe, as I thought did you, that Stoner could probably win races on the current Ducati on favourable tracks, and imo MM could as well.

We also have many examples of good and great riders having crashes which threatened or ended careers and/or championship contention on HRC or Yamaha factory rides, including Wayne Rainey, Mick Doohan, Stoner at Indy 2012 and Lorenzo at Assen 2013, to say nothing of Dani Pedrosa, who has had so many crashes and injuries in the 10 years prior to this one, all on a factory Honda. Eddie Lawson on the other hand, more a Rossi style of rider imo (in view partly of what we are discussing perhaps better than him) had few crashes and no major injuries that I recall despite riding in the "golden age" when the 500s were at their most vicious.
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I find it kind of amazing how rarely Lawson is referenced here on PS. It's kind of sad that his accomplishments are so overshadowed by those Roberts, Rainey and Schwantz. Back in the day before social media, personality already mattered. Someone was complaining about, what was it that Lorenzo should do in order to be more entertaining? The fact is that some riders like Sarrinen, Sheene, Hailwood had that "it" factor of personality that was either relatable or glamorous that is such a draw for serious fans and celebrity chasers alike. Does anybody ever mention Spencer? Not much really. He was a ....... mind-blowing talent, but basically at heart, shy and retiring. Lawson was kinda of grim and pretty anti-social - but that kind of worked in his time, because lots of macho A-type really related to him. I find watching Lorenzo being interviewed about as stimulating as watching beer ferment; but when I go back to re-watch his first two seasons on the M1 and his battles with Rossi - I count myself fortunate in the extreme to have watched those races live. That was (for me) the beginning the revelation of the "Alien" era, when everybody was catching up and beginning to surpass Rossi; when the bar was raised dramatically, when it became depressingly clear that no rider not on a factory Honda or Yamaha was going to be on the top of the podium, all of which made Stoner's out-of-nowhere debut year on the Ducati so brilliant and memorable. The history books? Meh.... books collect dust, but real race fans will go back and re-watch the races from that era for decades.
 
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Keshav said:
Does anybody ever mention Spencer? Not much really.
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I do. Mentioned him the other week in fact recalling the 2001 unveiling of the RCV211 at Motegi with Doohan.

It's sad, in view of his burn out and given his contribution to the sport, that he was labelled as a quitter. Particularly since, if we are to mention both 'Fast Freddy' and 'Steady Eddie' in the same sentence, it was the latter that literally turned his back on and walked out of the paddock. Don't however overlook the fact that Spencer's reputation and business integrity was tarnished by the circumstances surrounding the abrupt closure of his race school in 2008.

Actually, also just last week, I noticed Mick D posted elsewhere the infamous clip at Laguna with the Z300 and the CB900 head start.
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
I do. Mentioned him the other week in fact recalling the 2001 unveiling of the RCV211 at Motegi with Doohan.

It's sad, in view of his burn out and given his contribution to the sport, that he was labelled as a quitter. Particularly since, if we are to mention both 'Fast Freddy' and 'Steady Eddie' in the same sentence, it was the latter that literally turned his back on and walked out of the paddock. Don't however overlook the fact that Spencer's reputation and business integrity was tarnished by the circumstances surrounding the abrupt closure of his race school in 2008.

Actually, also just last week, I noticed Mick D posted elsewhere the infamous clip at Laguna with the Z300 and the CB900 head start.
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Yes - the whole rider school fiasco was such a black eye for him. Not to get too deep but he clearly had some kind of mental break-down and depression after he retired. People suffering from depression become easily overwhelmed and let things fall apart around them, unable to cope. He was very much a religious guy and I reckon when the "good lord" let him down, he had a serious crisis of faith and just got lost and just too paralyzed to take needed actions. Been there. All that aside, he was an unbelievable talent. I saw him at Daytona 200 one year when I was on crew for another rider. He left the track to pit, and the balance of the field did three laps before he returned to the track, and inside of two laps he'd made up the lost time and was 10 seconds ahead of the field. At least that's how I recall it. And the two world championships in one season.... never before, never again. Nobody can take that away from him.
 
Keshav said:
Yes - the whole rider school fiasco was such a black eye for him. Not to get too deep but he clearly had some kind of mental break-down and depression after he retired. People suffering from depression become easily overwhelmed and let things fall apart around them, unable to cope. He was very much a religious guy and I reckon when the "good lord" let him down, he had a serious crisis of faith and just got lost and just too paralyzed to take needed actions. Been there. All that aside, he was an unbelievable talent. I saw him at Daytona 200 one year when I was on crew for another rider. He left the track to pit, and the balance of the field did three laps before he returned to the track, and inside of two laps he'd made up the lost time and was 10 seconds ahead of the field. At least that's how I recall it. And the two world championships in one season.... never before, never again. Nobody can take that away from him.
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I never saw "Fast Freddie" in his pomp, they only started televising the races in Australia in 1986 when he was already in his burnt-out phase (possibly not unconnected with his stupendous achievement in winning both titles in the same year) but from what I can glean he was one of the greatest talents, and I have always seen parallels between him and Stoner.
 
Keshav said:
And the two world championships in one season.... never before, never again. Nobody can take that away from him.
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Which is why I tire of these brainless sheep that constantly bleat 'GOAT' with no appreciation of the historical context of this sport.

I'll never forget this comment, post Rossi's departure - or it may have been after the less than inglorious introduction of the Pedrocycle - the main man at HRC at the time, used to wear the aviators - can't for the life of me recall his name. Anyway, he was asked in a press conference if they could choose any rider on the RCV who would they hire. Although it was referring to the current crop. He simply said 'we choose Freddie'.
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
Which is why I tire of these brainless sheep that constantly bleat 'GOAT' with no appreciation of the historical context of this sport.

I'll never forget this comment, post Rossi's departure - or it may have been after the less than inglorious introduction of the Pedrocycle - the main man at HRC at the time, used to wear the aviators - can't for the life of me recall his name. Anyway, he was asked in a press conference if they could choose any rider on the RCV who would they hire. Although it was referring to the current crop. He simply said 'we choose Freddie'.
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They have no context.
 
I find it typical-GP that they talk about Viñalez as the heir apparent, reminds me of how Pol Espargaro was talked about; however I rate Iannone higher than Maverick. Iannone is faster, hungrier, and more talented. Don't let the recent rash of DNFs fool you for Crazy Joe. Viñalez just came off an unforced error in 4th rather than Iannone's covering 2nd. We got no benchmark for the Suzuki, while an excellent rider in Dovi got beat last year by Iannone. But in true GP fashion, some names (usually Spanish) just seem to get fastracked. If Viñalez goes to Yamaha (I laugh when they talk about it as if Suzuki doesn't exist) I predict he won't beat a Rossi (perhaps that's the point). Wilst Iannone has proven he has the integrity on the track to beat Rossi, though certainly I think that dynamic would change under Rossi's thumb AKA the new Yamaha reality. I just don't think if Viñalez lined up next to Iannone on factory Ducati l, the Spaniard would beat the Italian.

In my estimation the fastest rider are in this order: Marquez/Lorenzo (push) then Iannone. Iannone may get passed over because he isn't one of GP corporate culture's darlings.

HRC would be smart to replace Pedrosa with Iannone.
 
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Krop is saying 100% Jorge is headed to Ducati. I really hope Jorge is spreading rumors and announces he will stay , a bit of psychological warfare of his own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Iowegian said:
Krop is saying 100% Jorge is headed to Ducati. I really hope Jorge is spreading rumors and announces he will stay , a bit of psychological warfare of his own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I dunno.... got a bad feeling that this is for real. Lorenzo looked oddly relaxed and smug today when they were chatting him up in his garage during practice. He had that cat-swallowed-the-mouse look; like he'd done something clever.
 
I still think one way or another Pedrosa is gone from HRC at year's end.

Had a new thought, what if they re-signed Dovizioso? He might actually be what they need from a development standpoint and I see him doing better than Pedrosa is at this point.
 
JPSLotus said:
I still think one way or another Pedrosa is gone from HRC at year's end.

Had a new thought, what if they re-signed Dovizioso? He might actually be what they need from a development standpoint and I see him doing better than Pedrosa is at this point.
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I think he will stay until he retires. He's the Spanish Rossi. He puts the Repsol in Repsol Honda. And what we've learned is it takes money to make money. Wait thats not right in this case. Lets try, it takes money to blow money on pitching motorcycles down the road. Yea that sounds better.
 
Lorenzo/Iannone could be a very talented and potentially volatile match up in the Ducati garage. But at the same time, Dovi and Lorenzo in the same garage makes the team too one dimensional.
Its a tough call, few riders out there could outduel Dovizioso in the same bike when he is feeling good, like he has been all season, and he rarely makes mistakes. But when he is not feeling good, he is very middle of the pack. Kinda like Jorge, but not as quick.
 
JPSLotus said:
I still think one way or another Pedrosa is gone from HRC at year's end.

Had a new thought, what if they re-signed Dovizioso? He might actually be what they need from a development standpoint and I see him doing better than Pedrosa is at this point.
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Not gonna happen. They didn't split in the most amiable terms, Dovi forcing Honda to run a 3 bikes team in 2011, and, iIrc, honda wasn't very pleased about that.
 

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