bradl was fast too, he had a tire problem i think in the end
satellite hondas tend to become faster in situations like that, when another honda rider is going for the championship
bradl was fast too, he had a tire problem i think in the end
satellite hondas tend to become faster in situations like that, when another honda rider is going for the championship
With the whole Pedrosa/Barbera incident I'm going to jump right in there and say I can give an unbiased opinion as I neither know nor support either rider given that was my first race to enjoy.
I felt bad for Pedrosa with his issue at the start, that had to have unsettled him and having to start at the back after all that work to get pole, it has to have some kind of affect on him. The way they came together... well maybe I'm not expert enough to judge but in my opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion) I saw it as one of those things, a racing incident in which either one of them could have made a move that would have had a different outcome. Pedrosa maybe did cut across the front of Barbera's bike, Barbera clearly thought he slid into Pedrosa.
Can't it just be both their faults, chalked up to experience and so on? Or am I being hopelessly naive?
I felt bad for Pedrosa with his issue at the start, that had to have unsettled him and having to start at the back after all that work to get pole, it has to have some kind of affect on him. The way they came together... well maybe I'm not expert enough to judge but in my opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion) I saw it as one of those things, a racing incident in which either one of them could have made a move that would have had a different outcome. Pedrosa maybe did cut across the front of Barbera's bike, Barbera clearly thought he slid into Pedrosa.
Can't it just be both their faults, chalked up to experience and so on? Or am I being hopelessly naive?
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
it was a racing incident....Pedrosa would not normally have to content with the likes of RDP and Barbera.....so as he passed them, he then had to deal with their mediocre riding skills....Barbera just had a moment of riding beyond his skills....and so took out Dani in the process....
Short answer is Barbera will now have to be relocated to a safe house in Southern California, unlike the heat dies down enough for him to ride in Moto2 next year.....
Short answer is Barbera will now have to be relocated to a safe house in Southern California, unlike the heat dies down enough for him to ride in Moto2 next year.....
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Especially as Lorenzo is down to what.... One last fresh engine? The elephant in the room.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Good race from Ducati & Rossi. Will be interesting to see if the new parts perform as well in the coming races. Lets hope so. Nicky should have another 2 weeks to get the hand feeling better.
Sucks for Dani, but it seems his team has a little to be responsible for, as well as himself & Barbera.
Good ride from Bautista as well. Dovi was as consistent as always but I'm sure he thought 3rd was there for the taking..
Nicky's was a good effort considering he had trouble pulling the bike up. Spies - Well at least nothing fell off or exploded on his bike.
Fair first race from Rea. Probably did better than I thought he would but still a long way from the winner.
Lorenzo - Did as he pleased really. The championship is his for the taking. Been super strong all year. Terrific rider.
Crt's I'm sure there were some good rides down the grid but personally I don't give a .....
I hear afterwards in his motorhome someone from his crew gave him and exploding joint to smoke while he was sitting down on a whoopie cushion.
Its far from over,Dani will be on a charge,Stoner will be back and the other two Honda's will get a boost and Jorge will have Ben to back him up.oh dear.
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
Fixed it for you....
And Stoner may not be back until PI....next to last race of season...so not much help for Dani for a while......
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Perhaps nobody should take anything you say about Stoner serious, since you always have some ax to grind. Oh wait, nobody takes anything you say seriously already anyway.
Popular opinion doesn't mean much to me, like most of your posts. But by all means, continue to line up. Oh and trying to pad your post, using the stellar insight that we who post on forums think we are right, ah, breathtaking. No .... Sherlock. Check your post again dude, you are employing the same claim. That’s how these things work, we state our opinions, and then some chime in support, while others disagree.
Your point about Pedro not being flustered, hahaha, naive to the Nth degree. Dude, I know we marvel at all these guys, but get ....... real. I know we kid that Pedrobot is a robot, but he is actually human. You are a fool if you think he wasn't affected. In fact, since you are taking so much stock in Hector's prepared and prescribed press release (thanks MickD) take a look at Pedros comments (more like angry outburst, a rare thing for Pedro indeed, haha) regarding the moments leading up to his start from the back of the grid. Does that sound like an unemotional person? You might want to consider the corner you’ve painted yourself into, either Pedro was so fluster that he didn’t remember the protocol (understandable), or he was making a contrived statement, you know, those statements you take total stock in. You remind me of the scene from the movie My Cousin Vinny, you being the ..... on the stand, while the lawyer makes fun of his inconsistencies, telling him perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist in the man's kitchen, and perhaps the beans he got were magic beans from Jack and the Beanstalk. Maybe you actually believe Pedro is an "alien". But newsflash, he is human. And he was flustered by all the .... that went down at the start of the race (not to mention, his opinion about the protocol, was completely wrong, why would that be&hellip
. And I honestly wouldn’t blame Pedro for being a bit out of his mind, jeez, he had to deal with a false start, his tire warmer getting stuck, gets wheeled off the grid, then squires back, thinks there is an electronic glitch on his bike, perhaps having to frantically firgure out the problem (which was actually a switch, pit lane limiter, that had been activated correctly by a mechanic) and then is halted unceremoniously at the back of the grid with no time to explain, that is a lot to take in dude. But I'm suppose to "trust you" that you are right, and his state of mind was not affected, right? Uhm, yeah, ok Jack.Anyway, I dislike the description of these crashes as mere "racing incidents", because they usually absolve any blame where there usually is some, these things don't happen magically (Jack). This incident could be describe as a racing incident at face value, most all contacts are in fact; but when you couple Pedro’s state of mind (yeah, I know you disagree, Jack) and his desperation to make up positions, forcing himself into space that may or may not exist, surely forcing other riders to sit up, react, yield, (ref the incident he talked .... he had with Sic, where he decidedly ran into the back of him, did Pedro think it was Pedro's fault?...) then you have what you had at Misano. It should be fairly evident that Hector's statement was PR damage control; he wasn't going to win an argument where he might place the blame on Pedro. Pedro was in desperate mode, and his passing was aggressive and forced, and this simply caused another rider not have enough time to react. Probably Hector thinks he could have done more to avoid Pedro, and his initial reaction may have displayed this, but seeing the reply, it really does look like Hector did all he could. Look, do this, eliminated Pedro from this equation in your minds eye, and Hector makes that turn without incident, put Pedro back into the equation and we end up with a crash. My conclusion, Pedro’s fault.
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
Jumkie,
My thoughts when watching the race live was that it was Barbera's fault. I have just re-watched the video on motogp.com and still can come to no other conclusion. Pedrosa began his pass on Barbera in the corner preceding the accident. In the short straight between the two he was initially on the inside of Barbera (who was behind and to the inside of RdP half way down that straight) This is the braking point and Pedrosa starts to leg dangle, along with Barbera.
Before the corner (around level with the start of the inside curbing) Pedrosa swapped to the outside line of the two, ie Barbera is now on the inside, but behind. Barbera is still inside and behind RdP at this point. At the apex (or just before) the corner you can see that Pedrosa's lean angle is pretty much the same as Rea's and he is on the same trajectory and approximate line. RdP is much wider and therefore has a shallower lean angle. Barbera is tighter to the inside of the corner than Pedrosa, just behind him, and yet has a significantly shallower lean angle, even shallower than RdP. At that point on the track, Barbera's lean angle is never going to work.
This ties up with Barbera saying he lost his braking reference and braked far too late. He'd need to be much more upright in order to be able to apply the brakes.
Keep watching Barbera through the apex. He lifts the bike up even more - a sure sign he's braked too late. Just before the contact look at the relative lean angles of Rea, Pedrosa, RdP & Barbera. Barbera is most upright, Pedrosa is most leant over, Rea next most, RdP next (makes sense as Rea is new to the bike and "nervous" and RdP is on a much wider line. Barbera has a theoretical line, at this point, that is through Pedrosa's bike towards the outside of the corner - not round the corner. Barbera's bike then highsides, his front wheel taking out Pedrosa's rear.
As I said, Pedrosa had already changed from inside Barbera to outside Barbera before the corner. No way was it Pedrosa cutting Barbera's nose off - he'd already completely passed Barbera and cut across the front of him successfully once.
This time like Bautista/Lorenzo at Assen, regardless of the similar wording, both press releases appear correct to me.
My thoughts when watching the race live was that it was Barbera's fault. I have just re-watched the video on motogp.com and still can come to no other conclusion. Pedrosa began his pass on Barbera in the corner preceding the accident. In the short straight between the two he was initially on the inside of Barbera (who was behind and to the inside of RdP half way down that straight) This is the braking point and Pedrosa starts to leg dangle, along with Barbera.
Before the corner (around level with the start of the inside curbing) Pedrosa swapped to the outside line of the two, ie Barbera is now on the inside, but behind. Barbera is still inside and behind RdP at this point. At the apex (or just before) the corner you can see that Pedrosa's lean angle is pretty much the same as Rea's and he is on the same trajectory and approximate line. RdP is much wider and therefore has a shallower lean angle. Barbera is tighter to the inside of the corner than Pedrosa, just behind him, and yet has a significantly shallower lean angle, even shallower than RdP. At that point on the track, Barbera's lean angle is never going to work.
This ties up with Barbera saying he lost his braking reference and braked far too late. He'd need to be much more upright in order to be able to apply the brakes.
Keep watching Barbera through the apex. He lifts the bike up even more - a sure sign he's braked too late. Just before the contact look at the relative lean angles of Rea, Pedrosa, RdP & Barbera. Barbera is most upright, Pedrosa is most leant over, Rea next most, RdP next (makes sense as Rea is new to the bike and "nervous" and RdP is on a much wider line. Barbera has a theoretical line, at this point, that is through Pedrosa's bike towards the outside of the corner - not round the corner. Barbera's bike then highsides, his front wheel taking out Pedrosa's rear.
As I said, Pedrosa had already changed from inside Barbera to outside Barbera before the corner. No way was it Pedrosa cutting Barbera's nose off - he'd already completely passed Barbera and cut across the front of him successfully once.
This time like Bautista/Lorenzo at Assen, regardless of the similar wording, both press releases appear correct to me.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
A race only a Bopper could love. Ugh...
I've only seen this one angle of the Peddles crash. It's hard to see much from this camera, but Dani may have turned in just a little. It still looks to me to be 80+% HB's fault. We really need an HB on board, or rear view from the Pedrocycle.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60092457/Crash.mp4
Here's a short clip of Repsol's Chinese Fire Drill.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60092457/tire.mp4
Crutchlow = the new Hopper?
I've only seen this one angle of the Peddles crash. It's hard to see much from this camera, but Dani may have turned in just a little. It still looks to me to be 80+% HB's fault. We really need an HB on board, or rear view from the Pedrocycle.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60092457/Crash.mp4
Here's a short clip of Repsol's Chinese Fire Drill.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60092457/tire.mp4
Crutchlow = the new Hopper?
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Yama, finally somebody willing to analyze the video. Ok, so, its a bit difficult to detect differences in lean angle, as you would really complicate the discussion in terms of individual rider style, set up, and machine. But we can certainly detect larger movements, and you should detect a marked attempted at tipping in hard by Pedro to make that turn just as he gets clipped. I see going Pedro, who has just lunged ahead of Barbera, cut across his line, in this we both agree. That is of course necessary for him to position himself to make that turn, but he momentary runs wide relative to Hector, so far, we both agree, right? Its when Pedro attempts to get in line behind Rea, and in the small space he has created by forcing himself between the Brit and Hector, does the problem occur. So far we agree, right? You should be able to detect Pedro come back in line which means he went from Barberas inside, cutting across his line, to out, then where--back toward Hectors line (that is, if Pedro would have continues to run wide, there would have been no need for Hector to stand up his bike). This then is the ultimate cause for the contact, Pedro attempting to come back in line. He goes wide, Hector continues his trajectory, no incident. Pedro crosses out, tips back in to compensate, and the rear of his wheel closes in to the front of Hector. I suppose Hector could have slammed more on the brakes, as you said, he already had his leg dangling, so he was already in the process of braking. Pedro tips in further, and Hector has nowhere to go. Reaction time, Hector didn't get too much given Pedro's correction. Hector may be blaming himself for not slamming the brakes 'more'. My conclusion, Pedro's fault. No Pedro in desperate mode, Hector makes that turn without incident.
Good work Geo!
Good work Geo!
Really Jumkie? Haven't you spent 6 years and a lot of energy trying to make sure that a certain world championship result was given its proper credit, and was not seen as a gift of circumstance? I expect you of all people to play by your own rules at least.
Also, blaming Dani for the first lap incident is just silly. It is clear that you are not being objective in the slightest, and that you have let your prejudice influence your conclusions. I know you like a challenge and often flex your debating/persuasive writing skills/batter people into submission with word count, I'm fine with that but even you must see that this is not a reasonable position to take.
Dani has made it clearly past Hector, and commited to an acceptable racing line into the corner when the rider who he has just past on the gas comes back inside him and tags his tail after missing his braking marker.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Tom, when have we agreed on a crash? We have had these conversations many times. Its obvious you see incidents very differently to me. We debated Checa's torpedo of Neucher for godsake, where I blamed the Spaniard and your take was, what, nothing to see here. Your opnion on this incident is of no value or insight to me, sorry bro. But you think every incident is just a mere racing incident.
Regarding Rossi. Are you attempting to debate me on the circumstance surrounding the result? You may want to revisit this again, with a bit of context and depth ove this weekend's event. If you want to talked titles over a season, things go off script sometimes, as it did in 06, but that was not for the league's constant favortism for their favorite son. Debate me the particulars. You can start with SNS and end with Carmel acting like VRs personal agent.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
well played Tom.
Not really, Tom attempted to compare two unrelated explanations. He is trying to apply the constant favortism shown to Rossi to attempt to say that was the same circumstance for Rossi's results this weekend. Rossi did well this weekend because he had extra time for set up that the others did not. How Tom was able to link these two completely different issue missed the point by a country mile.
Not really, Tom attempted to compare two unrelated explanations. He is trying to apply the constant favortism shown to Rossi to attempt to say that was the same circumstance for Rossi's results this weekend. Rossi did well this weekend because he had extra time for set up that the others did not. How Tom was able to link these two completely different issue missed the point by a country mile.
Your spin doctor antics don't work with me compa
Not really, Tom attempted to compare two unrelated explanations. He is trying to apply the constant favortism shown to Rossi to attempt to say that was the same circumstance for Rossi's results this weekend. Rossi did well this weekend because he had extra time for set up that the others did not. How Tom was able to link these two completely different issue missed the point by a country mile.
I'm not disagreeing with the circumstances, they are factual. I am also not pretending that there is not a connection between these circumstances and the result. My objection is that the principles that you have preached for years regarding Nicky's title seem to have been abandoned now that it suits you. This place has made you bitter man.
I know we often don't see eye to eye on borderline incidents and controversies, but this is not one of them, not even close. This is clear as day to quite literally everyone except you. I know that you don't like Dani but you are just kidding yourself. In fact I'm not even convinced that you honestly believe it yourself, that a rider clearly ahead of another is at fault for being tagged from behind while taking the racing line
