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Keshav said:
The increased need to succeed is not spurred on merely by Italians. It's by virtue of Rossi's high profile world wide.

Nothing you say will convince anyone that it's just "business as usual" in Bologna.



I've never inferred that Rossi was being treated as royalty. But lets face facts: it's one thing if your product fails while

being utilized by a lesser consumer. However, when the most successful rider since Ago

gets consistently poor results with it - it's a marketing nightmare. Marketing is a two-way street. If positive marketing is good for sales then the opposite must also be true.



The other factor is sponsorship. If Rossi fails, so does the sponsorship that follows him everywhere he goes. Ducati is at a crucial juncture now. Unless their intention is continue down the old path of being oblivious to pragmatic need, favoring functionality over quirkiness as a definer of brand identity - they should (and I believe they are) be working around the clock to take advantage of the financial advantages they enjoy as a result of Rossi's presence - by making a less idiosyncratic bike. That said, I suspect they are too entrenched to change in any real meaningful way. Whole industries rarely change their philosophy or business model overnight.
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You always like to depict a desperate situation with Rossi and Ducati: either Rossi had to go to Ducati because he was desperate, or Ducati is desperate because they hired Rossi... Whenever I reassess the situation to more realistic levels, you and Jum protest. You want them to be desperate!
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Certainly Rossi and Ducati both need to win races, in 2012 at the latest. If they don't, it will be a serious blow for both of them. But the mission they embarked on is not a desperate one: the probability that they can develop a good bike together, at least for 2012, is good. I understand you are hoping for their failure, but be patient...
 
Frizzle said:
J4rn0 - you are intentionally missing the point here.

How much money do you think Ducati saved by not sending a funded factory team to every round of the championship in 2011?

I'm talking logistics, employee wages, hotel bills etc etc.

They would have saved big big dollars.

Big dollars they are now pouring in to their motogp project that would not have been there previously.

If you think they would have done this for Lorenzo, Stoner or anyone else, you are kidding yourself.



Re the yellow horde. I'm not just talking about in Italy.,

Look at the yellow flags at every race meeting on the calender.

That's a lot of dissapointed fans that will eventually say Ducati is crap.

Very bad publicity.
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No, I simply know what they are doing in WSBK. They are refusing to fly their factory flag following a disagreement over the rules, but not much has changed. They always had sponsors to pay for their squad's expenses so that's not an issue. Giving their factory material to a client squad amounts to the same. Meanwhile they have been developing the next superbike that Bayliss tested at Mugello. The idea that they have shut down the WSBK operation to help finance the MotoGP effort is utter BS. On the contrary, the good name of Ducati is being safeguarded by WSBK, where Ducati bikes are winning races. If MotoGP also improves, 2012 could be a very good year for Ducati. The catastrophe prophets will be disappointed, but who cares
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J4rn0 said:
No, I simply know what they are doing in WSBK. They are refusing to fly their factory flag following a disagreement over the rules, but not much has changed. They always had sponsors to pay for their squad's expenses so that's not an issue. Giving their factory material to a client squad amounts to the same. Meanwhile they have been developing the next superbike that Bayliss tested at Mugello. The idea that they have shut down the WSBK operation to help finance the MotoGP effort is utter BS. On the contrary, the good name of Ducati is being safeguarded by WSBK, where Ducati bikes are winning races. If MotoGP also improves, 2012 could be a very good year for Ducati. The catastrophe prophets will be disappointed, but who cares
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Wow, you could easily be propaganda officer at Ducati right now.

They are refusing to fly their factory flag over a disagreement, yet continue to support Althea Ducati Team?

You don't seriously think anyone is buying that crap do you? I mean seriously?
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Frizzle said:
You don't seriously think anyone is buying that crap do you? I mean seriously?
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What's there not to buy? They "pulled out" of the series. The loss of the Xerox team was pretty public, it let everyone know they weren't happy. Meanwhile, they're still there in a big way, just under a different name.
 
Austin said:
What's there not to buy? They "pulled out" of the series. The loss of the Xerox team was pretty public, it let everyone know they weren't happy. Meanwhile, they're still there in a big way, just under a different name.
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Exactly and they don't have to fund a factory team. The Althea team have all the logistic & employee costs.

They are saving a fortune.
 
Frizzle said:
Exactly and they don't have to fund a factory team. The Althea team have all the logistic & employee costs.

They are saving a fortune.
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They're still doing the developmental work, I'd imagine there's a fair bit of cost in that. And as J4rno has said, sponsors have covered those expenses in the past. Makes sense to me, they've never been hurting for sponsorship.
 
J4rn0 said:
You always like to depict a desperate situation with Rossi and Ducati: either Rossi had to go to Ducati because he was desperate, or Ducati is desperate because they hired Rossi... Whenever I reassess the situation to more realistic levels, you and Jum protest. You want them to be desperate!
laugh.gif




Certainly Rossi and Ducati both need to win races, in 2012 at the latest. If they don't, it will be a serious blow for both of them. But the mission they embarked on is not a desperate one: the probability that they can develop a good bike together, at least for 2012, is good. I understand you are hoping for their failure, but be patient...
Click to expand...



You always avoid answering my points by arguing against ones I never made.



I never said Rossi went there because he was desperate. I said he went there because he was foolish, in that he had a tantrum at Yamaha and arrogantly painted himself into a corner.



I never said Ducati contracted Rossi out of desperation either. They were overjoyed to have him, because their arrogance blinded them to the faults of their design flaws, allowing them the illusion that Rossi and JB would just pop by for a chat - assuring future championships.



I have no antipathy towards Ducati. If they ever make one as beautiful looking as the Hayden, Bayliss or Hailwood replicas - that are mechanically reliable and under $20,000.00 I'll be first on line to buy one. I've always lusted after the look and sound of Ducatis - but been put off by their constant breaking down and the high cost for parts.



The text above highlighted in bold - is 100% in agreement with what I've said. That the stakes are high - is undeniable.
 
Frizzle said:
Exactly and they don't have to fund a factory team. The Althea team have all the logistic & employee costs.

They are saving a fortune.
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I think what's being lost with our friend J4rno is that Ducati is saving money, no doubt, and its with purpose. That they support the privateer Ducati team is a fraction of the cost to run a true factory squad. I'm not sure how it can be debated that Ducati against the notion that they circled all the wagons around their GP effort, pretty much everybody I've read states this. I'm not sure how much use there is in arguing with J4rno, as he still thinks Ducati are doing nothing 'special' for Rossi, because he is Rossi. Just think about that for a moment, this is the state of his perception concerning Ducati. But I contend its not accidental, as there is purpose behind this notion, why, because of what it would mean for Rossi. Clearly he doesn't and hasn't admitted that Rossi has got special development treatment never before seen for another rider, and still no real success. The funny thing is, I recently quoted him saying Ducati had made a "radical" course change. The implication is hard to swallow. And this idea he argues that Ducati pulled out of WSBK being unrelated to GP is simply an extension of that argument.



As for Austin, I think he's pointing out the particulars, in a technical sense. Sure, Ducati may be providing some development work, but a mere shadow of what was before.
 
Jumkie said:
As for Austin, I think he's pointing out the particulars, in a technical sense. Sure, Ducati may be providing some development work, but a mere shadow of what was before.
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Marinelli said it's a full factory effort. Make of that what you will. That said, I certainly wouldn't argue that Ducati are focusing more resources on the MotoGP project. As an outsider, that looks pretty clear to me. However, they are developing a brand new Superbike for 2012. So I wouldn't say the Superbike program is a ghost town just yet.
 
Austin, what does Marinelli know?
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Ok, so is a "full factory effort" though its not a full factory effort. I wonder if we could consider Jason DiSalvos and PJ Jacobsen's Ducati entries in DSB "full factory" efforts too. (just kidding).
 
Austin said:
He knew how to make BBoz go fast and that's good enough for me.
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You're such a fanboy. I hadn't mentioned it, but when Austin answered the door when we unexpectedly arrived to Arrabi's house, I knew immediately it was Austin though I had never met him, Why? Because he was wearing his BBoz tshirt like some boy band teenybopper fan. hahaha
 
Jumkie said:
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You're such a fanboy. I hadn't mentioned it, but when Austin answered the door when we unexpectedly arrived to Arrabi's house, I knew immediately it was Austin though I had never met him, Why? Because he was wearing his BBoz tshirt like some boy band teenybopper fan. hahaha
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Jumkie said:
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You're such a fanboy. I hadn't mentioned it, but when Austin answered the door when we unexpectedly arrived to Arrabi's house, I knew immediately it was Austin though I had never met him, Why? Because he was wearing his BBoz tshirt like some boy band teenybopper fan. hahaha
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I thought I saw a Boz Bros thong lying on the floor by Austin's sleeping bag
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Frizzle said:
Wow, you could easily be propaganda officer at Ducati right now.

They are refusing to fly their factory flag over a disagreement, yet continue to support Althea Ducati Team?

You don't seriously think anyone is buying that crap do you? I mean seriously?
<
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Seriously. That's the situation atm... sorry for you.
tongue.gif
 

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