Yes it does! At the end of the day that is exactly key. But fundamentally wasn't he being just as careless and taking just as big a risk? I think an argument could certainly be made to the point.
Interesting wrinkle though isn't it?
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Here we go, sounding like Ducati's efforts are just another form of preferential treatment for "the national hero".
If you think that millions of Italians are so excited because Rossi is at Ducati, it just shows that you do not live in Italy. Most Italians know the name of Valentino Rossi (as most Americans or Australians do) but if you ask them, most will not even know for whom he's riding now, and among those who follow the sport and do know, more than half of them are not Rossi fans. You'd be surprised how many would qualify as "haters". I think Rossi's fortunes with the public are more or less the same in all Western countries, and unsurprisingly they are declining now, since he's not been winning enough lately.
Ducati are not going out of their way to give Rossi a winning bike simply because making winning bikes is very much "their" way, no need to go out of it for anybody. Winning with Rossi would be great, the marketing people would get really excited, but make no mistake: Ducati (and all Italian Ducati fans) would prefer winning with Stoner or Hayden, rather than losing with Rossi.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
The yellow horde, oh yeah. That's the real fairytale. About superbike, Ducati is right there at the top this season, -- not bad for an operation that according to you has been 'shut down'.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Here we go, sounding like Ducati's efforts are just another form of preferential treatment for "the national hero".
If you think that millions of Italians are so excited because Rossi is at Ducati, it just shows that you do not live in Italy. Most Italians know the name of Valentino Rossi (as most Americans or Australians do) but if you ask them, most will not even know for whom he's riding now, and among those who follow the sport and do know, more than half of them are not Rossi fans. You'd be surprised how many would qualify as "haters". I think Rossi's fortunes with the public are more or less the same in all Western countries, and unsurprisingly they are declining now, since he's not been winning enough lately.
Ducati are not going out of their way to give Rossi a winning bike simply because making winning bikes is very much "their" way, no need to go out of it for anybody. Winning with Rossi would be great, the marketing people would get really excited, but make no mistake: Ducati (and all Italian Ducati fans) would prefer winning with Stoner or Hayden, rather than losing with Rossi.
Do you realize you are the only one with this opinion? The idea that Ducati is not doing anything special for Rossi because he is Rossi should completely disqualify you from having any kind of meaningful conversation.
Oh, and to say 'most' Italians know the name Valentino Rossi, but have no clue who he riders for, hahaha, geez, I had a hard time just typing this. You have lost your mind, haven't you. J4rno, I like you, because you usually seem very calm, but man, your take hasn't changed much on this regard, despite everything to the contrary. The .... is even you admitted they were making a "radical course change" ---those are YOUR words. WTF
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Oh did they change the rules or something? Ducati is doing well because of a hangover on the rules that favor them.
J4rno, why, o why must you insist? Ducati are in a tizzy desperate to get Rossi on the podium. Why do you think the GP11.1 exists?
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Yes, Jum, things are not always like they are in your imagination. Excuse me if I trust my eyes and ears to judge the country in which I was born and where I live, rather than your prejudices. And I do know Ducati pretty well, that you like it or not...
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
False. They retired their factory team because they did not agree with the rules. And actually they are doing better this year than last year, working through a private team, and within the same rules. Maybe they should do the same in MotoGP...
Ducati are not desperate to get Rossi on the podium, they are desperate to make a Ducati win again. But why am I repeating such obvious things to you... You are obsessed with Rossi.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Yes, Jum, things are not always like they are in your imagination. Excuse me if I trust my eyes and ears to judge the country in which I was born and where I live, rather than your prejudices. And I do know Ducati pretty well, that you like it or not...
Ok, I concede, you are 'Italian', I am not, and you 'know' Ducati better than me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say "most" Italians know who is Valentino Rossi, but they do NOT know he riders for DUCATI? Dang, this must really piss off his sponsors. All that market research, epic fail, eh J4rno? Maybe all that marketing value that Ducati placed on him should be recalculated. Geez, if he can’t get his own country men who worship him to know who he riders for, what chance do they have in other nations knowing who he riders for? Because believe you me, (and I can speak with authority since I am ‘American’ that in the United States, not only do they NOT know who is Valentino Rossi, but they wouldn’t know to pick him from a soccer player to a motorcycle race, let alone he riders for Ducati. I would like to take your word for it, as I said, I'm not 'Italian' as you have schooled me more than once on your particular advantage in national perspective, as you have corrected me on other occasions that Rossi wasn't 'really' being obtuse with Lorenzo & Stoner when accused of verbally underhandedness, but rather he was just being a ‘playful jokester’. Right?
having spent a lot of time in italy and met many local people, most care more about ducati than rossi, but its true and normal that they would like to see an italian win with ducati (same with ferrari actually but like a thousand times more)
a reason this is not happening is i think because rossi needs to have a bike developed by himself exactly as he wants it, and that could only be the gp12
i think if duc does what rossi tells them to do, everyone riding the bike will be fast, as has happened in the past with the honda and the yamaha.
a reason this is not happening is i think because rossi needs to have a bike developed by himself exactly as he wants it, and that could only be the gp12
i think if duc does what rossi tells them to do, everyone riding the bike will be fast, as has happened in the past with the honda and the yamaha.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Ok, I concede, you are 'Italian', I am not, and you 'know' Ducati better than me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say "most" Italians know who is Valentino Rossi, but they do NOT know he riders for DUCATI? Dang, this must really piss off his sponsors. All that market research, epic fail, eh J4rno? Maybe all that marketing value that Ducati placed on him should be recalculated. Geez, if he can't get his own country men who worship him to know who he riders for, what chance do they have in other nations knowing who he riders for? Because believe you me, (and I can speak with authority since I am 'American' that in the United States, not only do they NOT know who is Valentino Rossi, but they wouldn't know to pick him from a soccer player to a motorcycle race, let alone he riders for Ducati. I would like to take your word for it, as I said, I'm not 'Italian' as you have schooled me more than once on your particular advantage in national perspective, as you have corrected me on other occasions that Rossi wasn't 'really' being obtuse with Lorenzo & Stoner when accused of verbally underhandedness, but rather he was just being a 'playful jokester'. Right?
I worked and lived in the US for over one year but it was long ago and I am sure you know better than me what's the perception there. Here, everybody has heard the name of Rossi or Agostini, but many do not really know what they are or are doing. Most people remember Rossi's problem with the income tax much better than his switch to Yamaha or Ducati. About verbal interpretation the advantage I have over you is that I understand not only Valentino's language, as we are both Italians, but also his dialect and slang because we were born in the same region. So yes, I can definitely tell when he's joking and you should just trust me with that...
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Here we go, sounding like Ducati's efforts are just another form of preferential treatment for "the national hero".
If you think that millions of Italians are so excited because Rossi is at Ducati, it just shows that you do not live in Italy. Most Italians know the name of Valentino Rossi (as most Americans or Australians do) but if you ask them, most will not even know for whom he's riding now, and among those who follow the sport and do know, more than half of them are not Rossi fans. You'd be surprised how many would qualify as "haters". I think Rossi's fortunes with the public are more or less the same in all Western countries, and unsurprisingly they are declining now, since he's not been winning enough lately.
Ducati are not going out of their way to give Rossi a winning bike simply because making winning bikes is very much "their" way, no need to go out of it for anybody. Winning with Rossi would be great, the marketing people would get really excited, but make no mistake: Ducati (and all Italian Ducati fans) would prefer winning with Stoner or Hayden, rather than losing with Rossi.
The increased need to succeed is not spurred on merely by Italians. It's by virtue of Rossi's high profile world wide.
Nothing you say will convince anyone that it's just "business as usual" in Bologna.
I've never inferred that Rossi was being treated as royalty. But lets face facts: it's one thing if your product fails while
being utilized by a lesser consumer. However, when the most successful rider since Ago
gets consistently poor results with it - it's a marketing nightmare. Marketing is a two-way street. If positive marketing is good for sales then the opposite must also be true.
The other factor is sponsorship. If Rossi fails, so does the sponsorship that follows him everywhere he goes. Ducati is at a crucial juncture now. Unless their intention is continue down the old path of being oblivious to pragmatic need, favoring functionality over quirkiness as a definer of brand identity - they should (and I believe they are) be working around the clock to take advantage of the financial advantages they enjoy as a result of Rossi's presence - by making a less idiosyncratic bike. That said, I suspect they are too entrenched to change in any real meaningful way. Whole industries rarely change their philosophy or business model overnight.
The yellow horde, oh yeah. That's the real fairytale. About superbike, Ducati is right there at the top this season, -- not bad for an operation that according to you has been 'shut down'.
J4rn0 - you are intentionally missing the point here.
How much money do you think Ducati saved by not sending a funded factory team to every round of the championship in 2011?
I'm talking logistics, employee wages, hotel bills etc etc.
They would have saved big big dollars.
Big dollars they are now pouring in to their motogp project that would not have been there previously.
If you think they would have done this for Lorenzo, Stoner or anyone else, you are kidding yourself.
Re the yellow horde. I'm not just talking about in Italy.,
Look at the yellow flags at every race meeting on the calender.
That's a lot of dissapointed fans that will eventually say Ducati is crap.
Very bad publicity.
Since when does Bridgestone only listen to 'one' manufacture? Last time I checked there were 'four' competing in Motogp.........Is there not a rule in place that forces BS to consider all Manufactures requires for a particular weekend? Obviously not.
As you said Jums, weren't they all on Bridgestones? Which is kind of funny from the guy who is so outspoken about Michelin.......in the past weren't they (front-runners) all on SNS Michelins? How is this different?
Of course when you are HRC, and you invest xxxxx million into making a bike work around a particular compound, then you don't want the other BS truck turning up giving the competition an option for conditions like Assen last weekend do you? How this is allowed to go on is hard to believe.....especially as last weekend it seemed to backfire with Spies smacking em....and Honda's hope bitten by the rubber he preferred, rather ironical.
Why are these other compound options needing to be brought in? Shouldn't they just be available always?
The four manufactureers get together and vote on the rules, the rule is that they can bring an alternative tire as long as all the teams/riders agree, this weekend they didn't agree. This is the rule and it has been in place, if you look at history of the sport the manufacturers don't really care about the riders to much. The only way it changes is when we get another guy like Kenny Roberts to come along and change things by leaving and stirring things up. If it was up to Honda and Yam we wouldn't be switching back to the 1000's, they voted against it and I have a feeling Honda get their way a little to much.Since when does Bridgestone only listen to 'one' manufacture? Last time I checked there were 'four' competing in Motogp.........Is there not a rule in place that forces BS to consider all Manufactures requires for a particular weekend? Obviously not.
As you said Jums, weren't they all on Bridgestones? Which is kind of funny from the guy who is so outspoken about Michelin.......in the past weren't they (front-runners) all on SNS Michelins? How is this different?Oh they (sns's) were developed for a particular rider/bike, right so again how is this different? I'll tell you, now there are no options at all! Making the window for victory rather small wouldn't you agree? At least in the past the teams had a choice.......and a choice of rubber supplier.
Of course when you are HRC, and you invest xxxxx million into making a bike work around a particular compound, then you don't want the other BS truck turning up giving the competition an option for conditions like Assen last weekend do you? How this is allowed to go on is hard to believe.....especially as last weekend it seemed to backfire with Spies smacking em....and Honda's hope bitten by the rubber he preferred, rather ironical.
Why are these other compound options needing to be brought in? Shouldn't they just be available always?
Since when does Bridgestone only listen to 'one' manufacture? Last time I checked there were 'four' competing in Motogp.........Is there not a rule in place that forces BS to consider all Manufactures requires for a particular weekend? Obviously not.
As you said Jums, weren't they all on Bridgestones? Which is kind of funny from the guy who is so outspoken about Michelin.......in the past weren't they (front-runners) all on SNS Michelins? How is this different?Oh they (sns's) were developed for a particular rider/bike, right so again how is this different? I'll tell you, now there are no options at all! Making the window for victory rather small wouldn't you agree? At least in the past the teams had a choice.......and a choice of rubber supplier.
Of course when you are HRC, and you invest xxxxx million into making a bike work around a particular compound, then you don't want the other BS truck turning up giving the competition an option for conditions like Assen last weekend do you? How this is allowed to go on is hard to believe.....especially as last weekend it seemed to backfire with Spies smacking em....and Honda's hope bitten by the rubber he preferred, rather ironical.
Why are these other compound options needing to be brought in? Shouldn't they just be available always?
The vote to bring in a softer compound tyre had to be unanimous. It clearly wasn't in this case.
Can't blame Sic if he did not want to give away an advantage. However the decision turned around & bit him on the bum it would seem.
It's not fully funded by Ducati though.
The Althea team are paying for everything, hotels, wages, logistics etc.
That is not to say Ducati are not developing their superbike, it's just they are saving a lot of money by not paying for everything themselves. Their own bikes & crew.
It would be akin to HRC closing down the Repsol team & putting all their eggs in the Gresini basket.
It would save them a fortune by not running their own team with the huge associated costs that go with putting a team on the grid.
Count them. This is just the people in the 2 garages. How much do they save by not paying 2 riders? All those mechanics? Support staff? Catering Staff? Motorhomes? Hotels for flyaways?
That's saving big dollars in anyone's language.
