Rossi to test GP12 at Jerez

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
What amazes me is people keep stating that grand prix motorcycle racing has only NOW become processional in the 800cc era when in fact the opposite is true....in the time I have been following the sport there was a small window at the end of the 80's / start of the 90's where there were basically 5 or 6 guys who could win a race and the race / result was never predictable. The so called golden era. But it wasnt the formula that created the spectacle...it was a combination of the riders being evenly matched on bikes that werent close to pushing the laws of physics at that stage of technological development.



Would I like to see a return to this type of racing? Of course I would!!!!!!! But not at the expense of dumbing down the formula and INCREASING the number of rules governing the sport to manufacture close results because some fans have ADD and lack historical perpective. Some of the revisionists on here wish to believe the past was different...I say get a clue as this is simply a complete fallacy.



The fact of the matter is that there are some guys who are simply way better and have more talent - when a factory signs up such a talent and puts them on the best bike out there you are going to get a dominant victory in most instances as we have seen this year....it has ALWAYS been like this and close racing has been the EXCEPTION not the RULE.



Just deal with it and quite your moaning as some of you guys are putting Stoner and Rossi to shame in this respect.
 
To be perfectly honest Jumkie I feel it is a waste of my time debating you at times as you seem preoccupied with one thing only....getting a rise out of people for your own jollies.



If you believe quoting people out of context, ignoring my requests to provide proof of my lack of consistency on this issue and extreme word counts are prerequisites for an informed debate good for you - but I simply wont repond to any more of your posts as they are becoming extremely irritating and serve no purpose other than proving you with a platform for your own personal entertainment.



As I have now stated on numerous occasions the racing IS "boring" if you only take into account the battle for the lead.....I find a myriad of other aspects to the sport that keeps me interested....you obviously dont. Poor you.



It seems like you to want to argue for the sake of arguing. Nothing more. Until you have something interesting to say I will no longer respond to your posts.

That's what happens when you can't handle the double standard you have been so fond of using. That is why its in my sig, if you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks. Now you claim foul when ever it suits you but you, only you, can belittle other's posts by calling them the most naive ever (which even that was a stretch as they are way better examples of this). Double standard dude, and I'll add, chickenshit.



You can't expect to throw a dig in the middle of your post by calling out those who describe the racing in a way you think is incorrect and then not expect a response. This whole little exchange began when you threw your little barb, you called me out buddy, and I answered. You went on with a severe characterization of Curve and Digger's takes, both of them questioning their motives as Rossi fans because they find the racing a boring (not just you I may add). You talked .... about their ability to appreciate the sport. Now you want to run and hide cuz I point out your double standard? Oh, come on, you have tougher skin than that, don't you?



I'm not arguing with you for the sake of debate. I repeated myself plenty, I told you I see their point, that the racing is uneventful (despite being like you, addicted to the racing even if it were time trials). But I also see their point (as I have learned to) and so I decided to challenge you (but you were not the only one, as a few others chimed in with similar takes). You think I;m just getting a rise out of you when I argue that the racing is processional?



Here is a bit of unsolicited advice, don't go talking .... then retreat cuz you can't handle when people call you out on the carpet...even when its your 'friends'.
 
The so called golden era. But it wasnt the formula that created the spectacle...it was a combination of the riders being evenly matched on bikes that werent close to pushing the laws of physics at that stage of technological development.



Yep I remember that time. Also I remember immediately once Rainey was injured the Yamaha became a 2nd tier bike. But was it really? No they simply lost Rainey while Doohan continued on. So they could have made it a spec series back then, since it became boring processional racing. Then we would never seen the return of Yamaha with Rossi in 2004.



The square off corners thing, one lined racing. Some riders squared them off on 500's. Generally American and Australian ex -dirt. European's rode 500's the same as 250's. Examples Cadalora and Biaggi. They were good enough to win with this style. And Rossi was even better. So the bike being 500 or 990 or 800 has little to do with they way they ride imo. Stoner rides an 800 in a unique way. The formula doesnt matter. Like you said the riders do. Always have always will.



Jumkie will go bananas when its a spec series because Puig will have more influence than ever. It will be a Spanish spec series (marquez had a better engine remember, so will Pedro, hayden will get the slowest haha). Better leave motogp the way it is.
 
I understand what you are saying and cant deny riders personalities do interest me as much as the bikes. Stoner and Rossi are basically polar opposites so they are a focal point. But the way I read the boring arguement is a question of who should rule motogp?



Many peeps might want the riders (Rossi) to be the ruler because he's the most entertaining. Thus the rules must be changed to make Rossi's bike (Ducati), tyres (Bridgestone - Indy), whatever more competitive. Or alternatively to prevent Honda being more competitive (boring). Thats the part I dont agree with. Rossi can just do his time on the POS as far as I'm concerned. Thats entertainment in itself.



Others want the manufacturers to be the rulers. This is the part I agree with. Riders come and go, the manufacturers are the ones that continue on. Its not Rossi or Dorna or fans, its bikes that comes first and make the show possible in the first place. Remember Rossi vs Honda, the fall-out, the move to Yamaha, the battle. Rossi prevailed, yet on spec or equal bikes that would never have happened in the first place would it?



Why change rules to favour Suzuki, when they are putting less into motogp than Honda. This year Suzuki has shown to me they are the ones at fault not the rules, because by concentrating development on Bautista they arent so bad after all and catching up.



Why penalise Honda for putting more into motogp than anyone else?
Let's see, these factories spend huge sums of money to R&D race engines that live most of their lives above 16k rpms, then all the sudden the rules are changed to make things "cheaper"(BS the cost is in R&D and not making the engines), Suzuki can't afford to go back and do any more R&D on the engine so they want out of GP. The MSMA agree to let Suzuki use more engines as long as they stay through their current contract to 2011. How all these back to back rule changes in the name of making things cheaper is favoring anyone, I don't know, unless we look at who really gained the most favor from the rule changes. cough honda. Go back and look at who had the most durable engines last year and it was honda. Now go back and read rider interviews and you see complaints from non other than Jlo and Casey. Casey saying that his engines were tired and Jlo worried because he had one blow. If you want the MSMA to continue ruining the sport you wont have your way as the CRT's are the future of racing and the MSMA will no longer be allowed to change rules as they see fit. Could you imagine spending millions on a racing team and then have all that wasted because somone wanted to change the rules, I don't blame Suzuki for wanting out when people are playing dirty. You like the MSMA to run things but Suzuki is supposed to be a part of the MSMA, do you really think they would ever agree to make a rule that would make their own engine and entire gp effort non competitive (6 engine rule) the MSMA is not fair. It has clearly favored Honda and Yamaha, so don't worry about Honda not being favored for all they put into the sport.
 
What amazes me is people keep stating that grand prix motorcycle racing has only NOW become processional in the 800cc era when in fact the opposite is true....in the time I have been following the sport there was a small window at the end of the 80's / start of the 90's where there were basically 5 or 6 guys who could win a race and the race / result was never predictable. The so called golden era. But it wasnt the formula that created the spectacle...it was a combination of the riders being evenly matched on bikes that werent close to pushing the laws of physics at that stage of technological development.





It’s not just the processional racing, though this is a big part of it. The bikes ride around on rails. You want to piggyback on Coupe33's point that because the points were so far apart in the championship, that therefore the racing must have been dull. ........, look at WSBK this year, the leader is 100 points above the next guy, but there have been very interesting battles and races. Nobody is saying that eras past the racing were battles race after race, but certainly the racing that did exist was much more eventful. The bikes were all twisted because the human element was more pronounced, today, a computer's precision is more pronounced. the racing may not have produced battles every race, but I'd say more so then now. The damn thing is usually decided by lap one. Even the riders say this, the start is so important because after lap one, people pretty much run their pace prescribed by the computers, whether it be fuel maps or the like.





Would I like to see a return to this type of racing? Of course I would!!!!!!! But not at the expense of dumbing down the formula and INCREASING the number of rules governing the sport to manufacture close results because some fans have ADD and lack historical perpective. Some of the revisionists on here wish to believe the past was different...I say get a clue as this is simply a complete fallacy.




Again, you haven't either been reading or understanding my posts, formulas are created by men. This one doesn't have some supernatural special dispensation. The rules are rules, but you think they are something perfect. Let me give you an example, the 6 engine rule, its a ....... rule. Do you think this is in the spirit of "prototype" racing?--that is, a place where engineers are free to produce the greatest performance? NO. Why? Because they now have to factor in reliability. That means riders go out there with a prescribed wick. Here is another rule, fuel limits. That is a ....... rule. Nothing more. So you think letting them have whatever their tanks can handle is a problem? You think that this rule is some edict from God and sacred? NO! They are ....... rule made by men. You go on like these rules are producing something very special and tweaking them is contrived. Well how the .... do you think they became rules?!? Newsflash genius (ad hominem), they were contrived by men. If anybody needs to get a clue on this point its YOU.



The fact of the matter is that there are some guys who are simply way better and have more talent - when a factory signs up such a talent and puts them on the best bike out there you are going to get a dominant victory in most instances as we have seen this year....it has ALWAYS been like this and close racing has been the EXCEPTION not the RULE.





You really are dense on this rules issue (ad hominem), though, its my belief the more you become aggravated, that you are attached to it because you wish to advance your position that processional racing must be inherent in prototype racing. The last title by Stoner was in 2007. Guess who changed the rules to allow them to have a spec tire after that? It wasn't God. It was men who sat around dreaming up ways to change the rules (at the time, because one tire manufacture looked to be a severe disadvantage, and the idea was to even out the parity in such an important factor, a tire war was no longer viable). Lets shelve the ramifications of power politics for a moment and talk about this idea of “rules changes” (which you seem so hung up on preserving). Had this not happened, there is a possibility that Stoner may have had more titles, as pushing the limit of his Ducati might have resulted in less crashes given Bridgestone's close development with the Italian brand. Do you understand that this was a result of a rules change? It was one that may have kept Stoner sequestered on a .... bike. This is what you are ‘now’ arguing in favor of, but I suspect, ONLY because Stoner is winning and the status quo on rules is suddenly favorable. Do you understand that the spec tire wasn't a rule change just for Ducati; it was a rules change for the series that effected Ducati. Its the same .... now, the rules are there, they produce a certain type of racing which has been more typified as a qualification practice. It’s a matter of degree when compared to eras past. So yes, there have been many processional-racing events through the years, but at the moment, this processional racing is in hyper drive, and its very much BECAUSE the rules.





Just deal with it and quite your moaning as some of you guys are putting Stoner and Rossi to shame in this respect.

That's rich. (ad hominem)



Love, Jumkie
 
My last point on this arguement. MotoGp is what it is. If you don't like the entertainment the formula is providing, simple, don't follow it. Things change, people change, what might have been entertaining to you previously, may not be now. I may find myself in that situation next year, the 1000's may increase the margins between riders, who knows. I may end up becoming a casual fan, checking results after the race instead of getting up in the middle of the night to watch every minute I can. If that happens, such is life. You have to learn to like the entertainment provided because no sporting contest is scripted to suit any individual, you either like what's provided & enjoy it, or find something more to your liking. If you are waiting for something which meets every one of your entertainment requirements, you are going to be waiting forever.
 
hahahaha! I nearly just spat a mouthful of beer onto the computer
<
 
Its the lyrics that are endearing. The two foot horse is just a bonus.
<
 
LMAO Jum. Is this your racing nirvana. It's horsepower, 2 wheeled (or legs at least), funny as .... & a little bit left of centre to be mainstream.
<
 
Let's see, these factories spend huge sums of money to R&D race engines that live most of their lives above 16k rpms, then all the sudden the rules are changed to make things "cheaper"(BS the cost is in R&D and not making the engines), Suzuki can't afford to go back and do any more R&D on the engine so they want out of GP. The MSMA agree to let Suzuki use more engines as long as they stay through their current contract to 2011. How all these back to back rule changes in the name of making things cheaper is favoring anyone, I don't know, unless we look at who really gained the most favor from the rule changes. cough honda. Go back and look at who had the most durable engines last year and it was honda. Now go back and read rider interviews and you see complaints from non other than Jlo and Casey. Casey saying that his engines were tired and Jlo worried because he had one blow. If you want the MSMA to continue ruining the sport you wont have your way as the CRT's are the future of racing and the MSMA will no longer be allowed to change rules as they see fit. Could you imagine spending millions on a racing team and then have all that wasted because somone wanted to change the rules, I don't blame Suzuki for wanting out when people are playing dirty. You like the MSMA to run things but Suzuki is supposed to be a part of the MSMA, do you really think they would ever agree to make a rule that would make their own engine and entire gp effort non competitive (6 engine rule) the MSMA is not fair. It has clearly favored Honda and Yamaha, so don't worry about Honda not being favored for all they put into the sport.

Suzuki cant be bothered running a factory bike in SBK, or Supersport. They never bothered to run in 125cc and rarely in 250cc. Even while Haslam was a chance of winning the SBK title in 2010, Suzuki couldnt be bothered giving him any updates. Suzuki dont give a ..... Yep its all the MSMA's fault. Honda suck for being overly committed to bike racing.
 
I am not a particular fan of honda in general, although I grateful to them for providing wayne gardner, mick doohan and casey stoner with championship capable bikes.But the absolute bitterness of some concerning them at present is over the top. What is wrong about them winning a championship? There were no such recriminations about yamaha winning the 3 previous titles but, oddly, similar such talk in 2007 as mr squiggle has pointed out.
 
Beware to the one known as Mr Squiggle for I sense you may be in grave danger.







[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKGPvul8FXc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKGPvul8FXc&feature=related[/media]
 
Jums, truly brilliant. Some of your absolute best work.







Another little point. Hondas gearbox is a $700.000.00 option for the sat teams which comes with it's own engineers, no mechanic is allow to even look at it......Adding another cool million odd to those who dare wish to maybe compete against the repsols.



The formula has been significantly dumbed down for the last two years....spec rubber, fuel limits, engine rule, testing restrictions....it's impossible to dumb it down any more!!



These rules leave an extremely narrow window for success, which requires a specific design for which there is no adequate testing time allowed to develop....not innovative.....extremely expensive......and extrodinarily dumbed down to previous incarnations of the formula.



Personally as a Rossi fan I've been very critical of the formula regardless of who is winning, Dorna is in a constant state of rule changes to try and sort out the horrible mess that the msma has created.....this is the strongest evidence that supports the argument that the formula is fundamentally flawed.....another tyre supplier will go a long way to improving things, until this happens not much will change.....
 
<




That's it ....... I'm outa this thread ....... it was boring as all .... to start with and was good for a gggle occasionally ......... but I just can't laugh at the likes of Talps any more ............ its just not decent!.
 
Your right the current situation is an absolute disaster. First we have one company so committed to motogp they developed a $700000 gearbox just to gain 0.1 sec per lap. Compare this to the previous version of the rules (990's) where Suzuki were................ Oh yeah ..... But Kawasaki were......... Damn also ..... Well at least aprilia were............catching on fire. All right well at the start of the 990's at least yamaha were .............. ..... Well that just leaves the magical v5 Honda eh. man how things have changed.............
 
I am not a particular fan of honda in general, although I grateful to them for providing wayne gardner, mick doohan and casey stoner with championship capable bikes.But the absolute bitterness of some concerning them at present is over the top. What is wrong about them winning a championship? There were no such recriminations about yamaha winning the 3 previous titles but, oddly, similar such talk in 2007

as mr squiggle has pointed out.



I don't think anyone is suggesting that there is something wrong with Honda winning a title, and I recall many very critical of the racing in 09- and certainly last season as well, Jorge walked away many times last season and 2010 and certainly a lot of 2009 was just as processional as this season.



Despite many suggesting that the last season of the 800s may have finally provide some decent racing, the complete opposite has happened, thus serious consideration should be given to 2012, and whether or not the capacity change will ultimately prove to be better when the rubber will be similar and the other ridiculous restrictions unchanged.
 
Suzuki cant be bothered running a factory bike in SBK, or Supersport. They never bothered to run in 125cc and rarely in 250cc. Even while Haslam was a chance of winning the SBK title in 2010, Suzuki couldnt be bothered giving him any updates. Suzuki dont give a ..... Yep its all the MSMA's fault. Honda suck for being overly committed to bike racing.



many, including matt miladin, Ben spies, alvro and the waters boy would seriously disagree.



Those who don't give a .... have pulled out, the fact that Suzuki is still there is admirable, even if they've bent the rules on occasion
 

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top