Dude my point isn't about just keeping suzuki in racing, it's about making the sport available to anyone just like F1 and NASCAR. That way when a suzuki or duc want to leave it isn't a big deal that destroys a grid and leaves us with 9 bikes on the grid. It's the big picture here. WSBK is far from being spec racing, those bikes are nowhere near being what me and you could buy. That's why there is talk of making SBK what it is supposed to be again and probably why it was recently bought out by the same company who has rights to gp. As far as Honda goes I'll show you a break down as soon as I have time. Probably on maonday.
Dude my point isn't about just keeping suzuki in racing, it's about making the sport available to anyone just like F1 and NASCAR. That way when a suzuki or duc want to leave it isn't a big deal that destroys a grid and leaves us with 9 bikes on the grid. It's the big picture here. WSBK is far from being spec racing, those bikes are nowhere near being what me and you could buy. That's why there is talk of making SBK what it is supposed to be again and probably why it was recently bought out by the same company who has rights to gp. As far as Honda goes I'll show you a break down as soon as I have time. Probably on maonday.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Well Michael I would have bet my house (if I had one) on the fact that once Stoner began dominating on the Honda the chorus of whining would get louder and louder....now that he finally has the best tools at his disposal I believe much of this whining is due to fear about a Doohan style dominant era approaching.
Well suck it up or stop watching if you dont like the results.
There have been 3 different riders win in the last 3 years (IF Stoner bags the title this year).....yet here we are again back in 2007. He is only winning because of the bike and the races are boring....that was FAR more predicatble than the racing has been this year
PS I agree with Hawk that the MSMA have too much say in the rules and have never argued against such claims.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Yes I agree 100% with everthing you said there. Hopefully "claiming" team wont mean automatically claiming a Honda engine. I hate the idea of moto 2 Honda spec engines. But i doubt that would happen. For starters the Ducati engine wouldnt be bad to claim and stick into an alloy chaisis would it? Ha ha just ask Rossi. Also BMW and Aprilia engines should be in the ball park? Yamaha already have a good 1000 judging by Brno. We have the riders. So it should be good.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Well Michael I would have bet my house (if I had one) on the fact that once Stoner began dominating on the Honda the chorus of whining would get louder and louder....now that he finally has the best tools at his disposal I believe much of this whining is due to fear about a Doohan style dominant era approaching.
Well suck it up or stop watching if you dont like the results.
There have been 3 different riders win in the last 3 years (IF Stoner bags the title this year).....yet here we are again back in 2007. He is only winning because of the bike and the races are boring....that was FAR more predicatble than the racing has been this year
PS I agree with Hawk that the MSMA have too much say in the rules and have never argued against such claims.
In a purely selfish way I wouldnt change a thing about the 800's. Only the tyre war. 2007 was amazing. But 2008/9/10 were just as good to see how far Stoner could be pushed. Now in 2011, thanks to Rossi, I've learned Stoner can be pushed bloody far. He is clearly no mentally weak quitter and in hindsight it was maybe the best riding not to win a championship I've seen, since Schwantz days anyway. he certainly earned his Honda ride the hard way.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Could not agree more. If Revvin Kevin had been on a Honda all those years he would have more than one championship to show for it and if Stoner had been in Pedros place instead he may be a multi title holder right now.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Doohan himself said Schwantz was the fastest guy out there, and could do amazing things on a bike no-one else would attempt (himself and Rainey included). Schwantz was also labelled a crasher. All this sound familiar?
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Preziosi in the firing line, yet again.
Said Rossi: “We tried to work on the weight distribution and especially move my position on the bike. This was the biggest work we did in Jerez because we think that this is the main problem of this bike. I want to be more forward. I don't like my position on the bike and it is for a long time since I say this to Filippo (Preziosi). We need time to build a new part and I hope that it arrive as soon as possible and we have to understand if it makes the difference. With carbon or aluminum, I don't know if it would make such a big difference. For me it is more important the weight distribution and the position of all the things on our bike. I think we have to work on these things. We started on this in Jerez but the work is long and we have to build some other parts to move all the things."
Since Stoner had already figured this out in 2010 why didnt Rossi just ride Stoners bike as it was?
Said Rossi: “We tried to work on the weight distribution and especially move my position on the bike. This was the biggest work we did in Jerez because we think that this is the main problem of this bike. I want to be more forward. I don't like my position on the bike and it is for a long time since I say this to Filippo (Preziosi). We need time to build a new part and I hope that it arrive as soon as possible and we have to understand if it makes the difference. With carbon or aluminum, I don't know if it would make such a big difference. For me it is more important the weight distribution and the position of all the things on our bike. I think we have to work on these things. We started on this in Jerez but the work is long and we have to build some other parts to move all the things."
Since Stoner had already figured this out in 2010 why didnt Rossi just ride Stoners bike as it was?
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
You'd think that one of the first things JB would have done is review the significant changes made to the Duc during 2010.
It wouldn't take much research to find that Stoner went on a winning streak immediately after adjusting the rider's basic position on the bike. While I suspect there's more to the story than moving 27 an inch forward, you'd think that they'd have experimented with skooching VR's butt forward and back during the earliest test sessions. Positioning the rider on the bike is an absolutely fundamental aspect of setup.
Also, am I the only one detecting a whiff of "I think I'll throw Prezzer under the bus again!" from VR?
With the attitude that JB has shown in getting new parts, I don't think they were listening to him. It's like they had to bring out version two and multiple revisions of the bike to satisfy them that it was also a turd. Now that Duc have done everything under the sun they finally let an outside specialist(FTR?) come in and build the chassis. I also don't think Rossi rides Casey's bike in any form or setup, he already admitted himself that he couldn't. Precious should have had his ... under the bus a long time ago, we've seen Casey, Nicky, Capi, Melandri, RDP, and everyone else that rode the Duc complain about the front end for a couple of years now.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
In all honesty this "solution" reeks of .........
The first thing you do when you hop on a new motorcycle is to adjust handlebar, seating, control lever / footpeg positions so you feel comfortable on the bike. Surely this is the most fundamental and basic adjustments you would make to a bike so the ergonomics are adjusted to your own preferences.
If Rossi & JB have only just worked this bit out after 10 months on the bike how did they ever attain legend status as setup / development geniuses.
If they are intimating the bike is suited to smaller riders only I see this also as rubbish....Stoner and Rossi are similar height.
171cm Vs 182cm
You cant tell me 11cm is gonna make all the difference....another "clutching at straws" scenario from Team Ducati.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Which version of the Ducati scored the podium for Rossi earlier in the year - was it the continued evolution of 2010? Why not continue its development incrementally, ironing out the flaws by the usual method one at a time. Instead its been months of panick stations and blame to get nowhere.
Minute changes have often had marked effects on motogp bikes, conventional and otherwise. I remember something similar with mick doohan, they moved a fuel tank or something 1 cm and it totally destroyed the balance of the bike.
Relating to an earlier post what I think they should have done fairly early on is to get rossi on a gp09 with the screamer; whether or not that bike could only be ridden fast using the stoner method, it at least did not have inherent front end instability for him or others, and may have been a better basis for understanding how to make the bike work, or even have allowed valentino to experiment with something closer to stoner's riding style without unpredictable front end loses.
I suppose they could have done that but the bike was still not really competitive and if Pedro and Sic don't tangle I don't think Rossi would have been on the box.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
I understand small changes can radically effect setup and this is supposedly very true of the Ducati but 10 months to come to this conclusion doesnt seem right to me and I am not the only skeptic either....
This according to Krops site.....
"An interesting side note is that Rossi and his crew chief Jerry Burgess disagree about the value of changing Rossi's position on the bike. At Motegi, Rossi told reporters that he wanted to change his position on the bike, moving further forward, but this required a modified tank and different footpeg mountings. But according to GPWeek's Michael Scott, Burgess is not convinced, saying the team have bigger fish to fry before dealing with the riding position. "
Joined Apr 2011
636 Posts | 26+
Gold Coast
it honestly wouldnt surprise me. his body language whilst on the bike is completely different to any other bike he has ridden.
this is probably wrong, but from my seat, it looks like he is doing way too much work with his upper body. his arms look too stiff giving to much negative feed back into the front. he just doesnt look relaxed on the bike, and if you know anything about going fast on a bike, you will know that they go the best with minimal input.
you reading this vale? you've just been given a lesson from digger on riding. this one is free, from now on you gotta pay. haha
this is probably wrong, but from my seat, it looks like he is doing way too much work with his upper body. his arms look too stiff giving to much negative feed back into the front. he just doesnt look relaxed on the bike, and if you know anything about going fast on a bike, you will know that they go the best with minimal input.
you reading this vale? you've just been given a lesson from digger on riding. this one is free, from now on you gotta pay. haha
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
haha good one digger
i see it the same way,rossi looks very uptight and tense on the ducati. it think it was indy where it really looked like he was afraid to lean the bike over
reminds me of my ...... riding in the wet when i do all i can to keep my body upright to have the illusion that the bike is more stable that way
i'd suggest we take a break from discussing rossi/ducati.
we need something to discuss in winter
i see it the same way,rossi looks very uptight and tense on the ducati. it think it was indy where it really looked like he was afraid to lean the bike over
reminds me of my ...... riding in the wet when i do all i can to keep my body upright to have the illusion that the bike is more stable that way
i'd suggest we take a break from discussing rossi/ducati.
we need something to discuss in winter
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
I think the thing there is that Casey's crew not just "made the bike go", but more importantly they "made the bike go for Casey"
To be honest I don't think they would be able to make the bike go for Rossi as Rossi in not capable of making it go.
I guess I'm saying I believe its the bigger part dependent on the rider( especially in Casey's case )
Similar threads
