Rossi still wont let it go

povol · Mar 4, 2017

Iamapony said:
It's pretty funny to say that Rossi did the right thing, or he didn't hurt himself, because he was too slow to beat Lorenzo the last race, anyway. What you are saying is that you and Rossi knew what was going to happen in the future. Thus, him starting from last was okay. rofl.

He lost three points for Malaysia, which gave him four penalty points for the season and mandated that he start from last the next race. Repeat: He had the same points as if he finished fourth. He gained nothing by pushing MM wide, except 20+ grid positions.

No one predicted the future. And no one knew where he would qualify or finish the last race. If he hadn't been penalized, he could have killed Lorenzo the last race and would have been bequeathed the championship. Something that I am sure also-ran Edwards would do for him. To state that Rossi didn't really hurt his chances in Malaysia is either disingenuous or delusional, just like Rossi has been about the whole damn thing. ;-P

You obviously don't know how the penalty system works. Rossi did not lose championship points, he accrued three penalty points which are two totally different entities.

michaelm · Mar 4, 2017

p4p1 said:
Yeah but you have to remember that MM chucking it down the road which was normal in 2015 means if he came second and Rossi gained a position then the title would've have been his. That's not the case without the 3 extra points. It just added a bit more pressure but as I think we've all seen when the pressure is on Lorenzo shines. Rossi under the same pressure probably has a stack.

Sure, many if asked for a prediction prior to Sepang 2015 as to MM's likely result at Valencia 2015 would have put a win or crashing out ahead of him finishing second.

michaelm · Mar 4, 2017

povol said:
You obviously don't know how the penalty system works. Rossi did not lose championship points, he accrued three penalty points which are two totally different entities.

Now I understand what he was (erroneously) getting at.

Look up the points scored by Rossi in the 2015 season Pony. They include 16 points for Sepang 2015, not the 13 he would have scored had MM finished 3rd ahead of him.

Keshav · Mar 4, 2017

povol said:
You obviously don't know how the penalty system works. Rossi did not lose championship points, he accrued three penalty points which are two totally different entities.

Don't confuse the issue with facts.

Little Walter · Mar 4, 2017

#22 said:
Agreed, which is why it is utterly useless trying to have a reasonable discussion with them. A fellow motorbike enthusiast at work went ape over the Sepang incident, going so far as saying "What was Marquez doing trying to pass Rossi around the outside there anyway?" I simply responded by asking would he be saying the same if Marquez and Rossi had reversed roles?

Pointless?

AJV80 · Mar 4, 2017

povol said:
You obviously don't know how the penalty system works. Rossi did not lose championship points, he accrued three penalty points which are two totally different entities.

I think you nailed it, he must be confused about the penalty points system vs championship points. He thinks that the additional 3 championship points Rossi gained in Sepang by finishing in 3rd rather than 4th where removed by the 3 penalty points he acquired for the incident causing him to start from the back of the grid at Valencia.

Iamapony, Rossi received the full 16 points for his 3rd place finish at Sepang, he didn't have 3 points removed. Penalty points don't subtract from or effect the championship points tally.
http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2015/MAL/MotoGP/RAC/Classification.pdf?v1_18e59c55

michaelm · Mar 4, 2017

#22 said:
Agreed, which is why it is utterly useless trying to have a reasonable discussion with them. A fellow motorbike enthusiast at work went ape over the Sepang incident, going so far as saying "What was Marquez doing trying to pass Rossi around the outside there anyway?" I simply responded by asking would he be saying the same if Marquez and Rossi had reversed roles?

Exactly. Rossi raced Stoner the same way at Laguna Seca 2008, Lorenzo the same way at Motegi 2010 when VR was out of the title race (I thought he was entitled to do so, and said this at the time), Colin Edwards rode as a blocker for Rossi when they were team-mates (as I saw when I re-visited footage of the race during which Pedrosa took Hayden out in 2006 for instance), Rossi got his lead over Lorenzo in 2015 with everyone in the field trying to beat Lorenzo in the first place, and for that matter no-one gave Mick Doohan anything (and nor of course did he ask for anything) when he returned for the last 2 races of 1992 and only he could beat Wayne Rainey; he had absolutely dominated the title race before his injury at Assen in that year.

If there is an unwritten rule it is that you shouldn't put a championship contender at risk of crashing out by an unfeasible move, which MM didn't do at PI 2015 and probably didn't do at Sepang, after which he was pretty much admonished in regard to racing a contender for position, apparently after successful mind-reading by RD. Rossi himself of course took out Stoner who was leading the championship at the time with an egregiously stupid and unnecessary move at Jerez 2011 which could seriously have affected Stoner's title chances but Stoner somehow ended up being the bad guy in that incident as well.

Either it is allowable to race legally for position or it isn't, I don't see how the ambitions of Rossi and his fans for him to win an extra title or whether MM has the "correct" attitude to Rossi and his ambitions come into it. Each race is supposed to be an entity unto itself anyway.

#22 · Mar 5, 2017

Daniboy said:
Pony was right, 3 penalty points given = 4 for the season, put the bong down.

povol said:
You obviously don't know how the penalty system works. Rossi did not lose championship points, he accrued three penalty points which are two totally different entities.

This. Keep working at that wit Dani....

michaelm said:
Exactly. Rossi raced Stoner the same way at Laguna Seca 2008, Lorenzo the same way at Motegi 2010 when VR was out of the title race (I thought he was entitled to do so, and said this at the time), Colin Edwards rode as a blocker for Rossi when they were team-mates (as I saw when I re-visited footage of the race during which Pedrosa took Hayden out in 2006 for instance), Rossi got his lead over Lorenzo in 2015 with everyone in the field trying to beat Lorenzo in the first place, and for that matter no-one gave Mick Doohan anything (and nor of course did he ask for anything) when he returned for the last 2 races of 1992 and only he could beat Wayne Rainey; he had absolutely dominated the title race before his injury at Assen in that year.

If there is an unwritten rule it is that you shouldn't put a championship contender at risk of crashing out by an unfeasible move, which MM didn't do at PI 2015 and probably didn't do at Sepang, after which he was pretty much admonished in regard to racing a contender for position, apparently after successful mind-reading by RD. Rossi himself of course took out Stoner who was leading the championship at the time with an egregiously stupid and unnecessary move at Jerez 2011 which could seriously have affected Stoner's title chances but Stoner somehow ended up being the bad guy in that incident as well.

Either it is allowable to race legally for position or it isn't, I don't see how the ambitions of Rossi and his fans for him to win an extra title or whether MM has the "correct" attitude to Rossi and his ambitions come into it. Each race is supposed to be an entity unto itself anyway.

Certainly, it all seems to come under the "Rossi Rule".

It's interesting that my wife, who started watching GP's with me in late 2014 onwards and without any influence from me, noticed the infatuation with Rossi. She even went as far as saying regarding his fanbase, why don't MotoGP just gather all the riders at the start of the weekend and hand Rossi the winners trophy.

danski · Mar 5, 2017

#22 said:
This. Keep working at that wit Dani....

Certainly, it all seems to come under the "Rossi Rule".

It's interesting that my wife, who started watching GP's with me in late 2014 onwards and without any influence from me, noticed the infatuation with Rossi. She even went as far as saying regarding his fanbase, why don't MotoGP just gather all the riders at the start of the weekend and hand Rossi the winners trophy.

Come off it #22 you got the wrong end of the stick regarding Ponys post . Quoting Pov doesn't get you out of the hole.

#22 · Mar 5, 2017

I'm sure Pony will clarify at some point, but it does sound like he was talking about penalty points over championship points.

Oh iIm trembling at the thought of being in a hole in Daniboys mind :cold:

povol · Mar 5, 2017

#22 said:
I'm sure Pony will clarify at some point, but it does sound like he was talking about penalty points over championship points.

Oh iIm trembling at the thought of being in a hole in Daniboys mind :cold:

Repeat: He had the same points as if he finished fourth. He gained nothing by pushing MM wide, except 20+ grid positions.

Not much to clarify, it pretty obvious he thought Rossi lost Championship points

AJV80 · Mar 5, 2017

Iamapony said:
He lost three points for Malaysia, which gave him four penalty points for the season and mandated that he start from last the next race. Repeat: He had the same points as if he finished fourth. He gained nothing by pushing MM wide, except 20+ grid positions.

Daniboy said:
Come off it #22 you got the wrong end of the stick regarding Ponys post . Quoting Pov doesn't get you out of the hole.

Dani, pony must be confused, the first part of what he is saying is correct (penalty points not championship points though). However the second part (highlighted) is wrong, Rossi received 3rd position and the 16 championship points that acompany it for the Sepang race. So he didn't get the same points as if he finished 4th.

jarno · Mar 6, 2017

mm try to make a hard livin for vr at pi, and then did an alien lap at the end just to clarify who's the boss. at last two races when every point count, he was literally jl's closed door to vr and to dp at the last race. when dp pass mm because mm was going to slow for a late '15 honda, mm brutally passed him back, they touch! so i hope you all trolling about this just to get your virtually kicks or something. or even because you hate vr and you are glad someone make him very angry even in this awkward fashion. i can accept that! because if you actually believe what you write, my deepest and sincere sympathies...

birdman · Mar 6, 2017

When vr tri an ride an stoner ducati in 2010 test at velenca we all se for first time tru talent level of rosse and telnet Level veri veri low no match for the milki bar kid. Now mm ride bike he much higher relent Level than Vr just look at the save on the knee and the elbow Yamaha much better bike just look vinalez already much faster Vr but Honda very bad bike mm should never win pi should not be able to keep up with Vr just vr very lazy rider expect everyone to move out of way like Moses part the sea but Rossi not god like stoner just petty spoilt kid.

michaelm · Mar 6, 2017

jarno said:
mm try to make a hard livin for vr at pi, and then did an alien lap at the end just to clarify who's the boss. at last two races when every point count, he was literally jl's closed door to vr and to dp at the last race. when dp pass mm because mm was going to slow for a late '15 honda, mm brutally passed him back, they touch! so i hope you all trolling about this just to get your virtually kicks or something. or even because you hate vr and you are glad someone make him very angry even in this awkward fashion. i can accept that! because if you actually believe what you write, my deepest and sincere sympathies...

Poor Vale. Everyone has always been against him.

Why didn't he just beat Lorenzo at PI, and stay ahead of him, as he started, at Sepang?.

As Povol has long said, please post anything date stamped from before the Sepang 2015 press conference about any irregularity in the way MM rode at PI 2015. He won the race ffs. Any legal strategy that wins a rider a race can hardly be criticised. As I have said, MM crashed out of big leads at PI in 2016 and even in his totally dominant year in 2014, and there was absolutely no reason he was obliged to crash out of the 2015 race just to keep Rossiboppers happy.

If you actually believe what you say, then you are a cult member.

Arrabbiata1 · Mar 6, 2017

michaelm said:
If you actually believe what you say, then you are a cu...

:ninja:

AJV80 · Mar 6, 2017

jarno said:
mm try to make a hard livin for vr at pi, and then did an alien lap at the end just to clarify who's the boss. at last two races when every point count, he was literally jl's closed door to vr and to dp at the last race. when dp pass mm because mm was going to slow for a late '15 honda, mm brutally passed him back, they touch! so i hope you all trolling about this just to get your virtually kicks or something. or even because you hate vr and you are glad someone make him very angry even in this awkward fashion. i can accept that! because if you actually believe what you write, my deepest and sincere sympathies...

So what you are saying is .....

That because every point counts for Vale that Marc is not allowed to race him.

But because every point counts for Jorge that Marc is allowed to race him????

jarno · Mar 6, 2017

you found me ! our name is cult the bullsh$t!

The Burning Barber · Mar 6, 2017

michaelm said:
As Povol has long said, please post anything date stamped from before the Sepang 2015 press conference about any irregularity in the way MM rode at PI 2015. He won the race ffs. Any legal strategy that wins a rider a race can hardly be criticised.

Exactly. I didn't hear anyone remotely suggest anything suspicious was at play until Rossi said something. I do remember thinking that Rossi would be pissed that he couldn't bask in the glory of one of the best races Motogp had seen in years but never considered that it would mentally weaken him to a point were he would be susceptible to Uccio's hypothesis.

michaelm · Mar 6, 2017

jarno said:
you found me ! our name is cult the bullsh$t!

What, as opposed to blindly accepting ........ which Rossi didn't originate himself, but rather came from that unbiased paragon and bike racing genius Uccio?

I had actually thought Rossi was too smart to end up in such situation, but it rather looks as though he lives in the sort of bubble surrounded by sycophants major celebrities not infrequently come to inhabit.

And no, I don't care if you or even a majority among the population of Italy believe the Rossi/Uccio narrative.

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