Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
That, as we say in America, is very white of you, Patron.
Re: Who da man... entirely subjective.
Re: Throwing tantrums, publicly insulting other riders, and unsportsman-like on-track behavior - all well documented on video - behavior that is easily verifiable - not so much.
Joined Jun 2016
642 Posts | 244+
Santa Cruz, Cal
Can't you see that it does not matter? He and his adherents are wrong either way and he screwed himself. If Marquez was definitely faster, then he is going no further than where he was at, because MM was slower than the people in front of him. Why risk a crash or penalty for nothing? If he was faster than MM, which is the justification for getting the slower MM out of the way, then he can clean pass, block, and score more points than MM. He didn't do either thing. And he can only blame himself. Hell, he might have another championship, if he didn't screw himself in 2006.
My mother has an original dinning table and chairs by Saarinen. Museum stuff. Must be worth a ton. Not the same guy, but maybe a Jeopardy question some day. ;-P
Joined Sep 2016
894 Posts | 557+
Queensland Australia
Everyone that doesn't have their eyes painted on could see what happened and realise what Rossi did was inexcusable and extremely dangerous... actions that appalled me and that I've never once justified. Marc did nothing wrong, he was simply racing in a motorcycle race. The entire 'unwritten rule' about other riders not effecting the championship contenders is ........ in my book. You win the championship by beating everybody else, not by expecting them to give you a pass and an easy win.
Data shows that Marc's laptimes where a touch faster than Vale's before they started battling each other for position, which makes sense.... he didn't catch up to him by being slower. I'm not making a big deal of it but simply pointing out that your argument that Rossi should have stayed in front and blocked Marc could be argued either way. I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that the rider who was capable of lapping quickest would have a just as good, if not a slightly better chance of getting ahead and staying ahead by blocking the other.
The penalty Rossi received for his actions was extremely lenient, while watching the race i was expecting Rossi to be black flagged at any moment. I'm sure any other rider would have been black flagged, or at a minimum received a ride through penalty. DORNA being chicken .... to make a call immediately in fear of the .... storm it would have created with the Yellow brigade, it also allowed the championship to remain alive until Valencia. Either way I think they handled it poorly, awarding 16 points to someone that took another rider out is ludicrous. A black flag, a ride though penalty, giving him points of 4th position rather than 3rd (seeing he took out the potential 3rd place rider), awarding him no points at all or having him sit out the Valencia race all together would have all been more fitting penalties given the scenario.
I know that none of it matters now, (even though Rossi cant seem to let it go) and even at the time I didn't think Rossi was capable of winning the championship, Jorges form was simply better than his.
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Joined Jun 2016
642 Posts | 244+
Santa Cruz, Cal
You are still missing my point: Rossi was battling for the championship. Marquez was not. Isn't that what is claimed that annoyed Rossi and his followers? Thus, it is Rossi's responsibility to stay in the championship. It doesn't matter who is faster. It matters how many points you have at the end of the season, (e.g. Nicky Hayden). Rossi's actions cost him more than if he had just stayed in fourth, and even more IF he was faster than MM. Stupid-is-as-stupid-does and his move was really dumb. Thus he is wrong whether he was faster or slower.
I strongly disagree with the part about his actions costing him more. He never had the pace at Valencia to finish above fourth no matter his starting position. He gained an extra 3 points in Sepang. If he hadve ridden to the rules he would've finished 4th in Sepang and then gone fourth in Valencia. Knocking Marc off his bike got him closer to the title.
Joined Jun 2016
642 Posts | 244+
Santa Cruz, Cal
You are kidding, right?
He had to start from LAST because of his stupid ego, or insanity, or his boyfriend, or what-ev-ar. If he finished third or fourth and lined up on the first row, what then? We don't know. But, that sure would be a lot better than a three point deduction and starting forking last. Math - try it out.
You are kidding, right?
He had to start from LAST because of his stupid ego, or insanity, or his boyfriend, or what-ev-ar. If he finished third or fourth and lined up on the first row, what then? We don't know. But, that sure would be a lot better than a three point deduction and starting forking last. Math - try it out.
It's simple he had the pace to finish 4th in Sepang 12 points, he had the pace to finish 4th in Valencia given that he never had the pace of the top 3 during the whole weekend. He still qualified 12th and according to his team they were treating qualifying as qualifying.
13+13= 26
16+13= 29
The maths is ....... simple when you look at the pace he showed in Valencia and Sepang. He unfairly gained three points towards his championship and in the end the penalty didn't effect what would have been his final finishing position in Valencia given his pace the entire weekend. This is also back when the factory Honda and yamahas had a huge electronics advantage over the entire field. If in 2015 they were competing with the unified software he probably would've struggled much more to get up to 4th. He also didn't start last.
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Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
2010:
You are kidding, right?
He had to start from LAST because of his stupid ego, or insanity, or his boyfriend, or what-ev-ar. If he finished third or fourth and lined up on the first row, what then? We don't know. But, that sure would be a lot better than a three point deduction and starting forking last. Math - try it out.
As p4p1 said, Rossi's lap times all weekend at Valencia showed he never had the pace to run with the top 3. He may have stuck with them for a few laps but that would have been it.
Joined Sep 2016
894 Posts | 557+
Queensland Australia
You are kidding, right?
He had to start from LAST because of his stupid ego, or insanity, or his boyfriend, or what-ev-ar. If he finished third or fourth and lined up on the first row, what then? We don't know. But, that sure would be a lot better than a three point deduction and starting forking last. Math - try it out.
Have a look at the Valencia race laptimes breakdown (see link http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2015/VAL/MotoGP/RAC/analysisbylap.pdf?v1_8ee23d4a ). Jorge, Marc and Dani all did faster laptimes than Vale during EVERY SINGLE LAP of the Valencia race .... so how exactly then could Vale have finished any higher than 4th position regardless of where he started the race from? Admittedly Vale was slower during the opening laps of the race due to cutting through traffic and such but this makes no difference to his pace during all the laps in the race he wasn't hindered by traffic, and I'm pretty certain he wasn't holding anything back or biding his time.
Even if Rossi had of started the race somewhere up the front of the grid instead of 12th position where he qualified. He probably wouldnt have finished 19 seconds behind Dani ... but still would have finished behind Dani in 4th. I agree with p4p1, looking at it all with 20/20 hindsight he sure got a better deal starting from the back at Valencia compared to losing points to Marc at Sepang.
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I'd like to add that another reason why he was far better off is let's say that Dani and Marc tangle at some point during the race and take each other out. Always a possibility. With his 3 extra points from Sepang Rossi would win the championship by coming second to Lorenzos. Without those three points if they take each other out Lorenzo has to win the race which was a lock(in th scenario that Marc and Dani take each other out) to take the title. In every logical way when looking at times through the whole weekend Rossi getting the grid penalty instead of losing 3 extra points from Sepang or worse kept the championship alive. That's not even going into the extra pressure for Lorenzo(who's incredible under pressure btw) by knowing he had to win to clinch the title.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
100% correct. If you go back and look at race analysis, at no time, did Rossi come close to running the lap times as the top 3, even early in the race when he had 2 seconds of open track in front of him before the caught the next group and every reason to push. He didn't have the speed to finish any higher than 4th, but had he started up front, I guess he could have taken out a few more riders and won the title. Bottom line, he benefitted from committing the cardinal sin of bike racing, wrecking another rider on purpose
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
And where is your evidence that Marquez "Should" have won the last 2 races? If anything, 2015 showed us that when Marquez was capable of winning races he did just that.
The guy Rossi needed to beat was Lorenzo in those end of season races, as MM actually said. He wasn't fast enough to do it, or to beat Pedrosa in several end of season races and Iannone at PI. As David Emmett said on his site, Rossi couldn't sub-contract beating Lorenzo to other riders.
The controversy arose after PI, where MM WON THE ....... RACE, depriving Lorenzo of 5 points as Gaz says, but ludicrously was accused of tanking a race he actually won, apparently on the basis of Uccio's superior and totally unbiased analytical skills when no-one else at all perceived any shenanigans on the day.
As I have said, just because MM crashed out of 6 races earlier in the season doesn't mean he was obliged to keep doing so, and some see PI 2015 as a turning point in his career where he finally realised that mindlessly attempting to dominate every lap of a race was not necessarily the best approach; he carried this on to the 2016 season, winning the championship by riding fairly judiciously on a flawed bike until he clinched the title. MM actually has not finished a premier class race at PI other than in 2015, btw, crashing out of a substantial lead in both 2014 and 2016.
It quite disturbs me that even Rossi fans knowledgeable about the sport such as you seem to want to turn it into World Championship Wrestling. However pleasing it would be for Rossi and his fans, and good for ratings, for Rossi to win the 8th/10th he has to actually do so on merit or it devalues the whole sport, including the 7 titles Rossi has won.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
What a noob, Sepang was Pedrosa's race to lose, he dominated proceedings and had 4/10ths on the next best rider that weekend. That race was over at turn 1. MM maybe could have won Valencia, and would have given it a shot had it meant the title, but he sure as hell wasnt going to take Lorenzo out and hand the guy a title who questioned his integrity and wrecked him on purpose
