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Rossi still wont let it go

What, as opposed to blindly accepting ........ which Rossi didn't originate himself, but rather came from that unbiased paragon and bike racing genius Uccio?

I had actually thought Rossi was too smart to end up in such situation, but it rather looks as though he lives in the sort of bubble surrounded by sycophants major celebrities not infrequently come to inhabit.

And no, I don't care if you or even a majority among the population of Italy believe the Rossi/Uccio narrative.

I'm a Rossi fan myself and have been ever since I noticed him in the 250cc scene when I was a teenager. The guy is no angel and not without his faults and I realise many members of this forum dislike him. With the mentality and behaviour of many of his one eyed fans I honestly can't blame them, its embarrassing for me to be associated with them. But the guy has devoted most of his life to the sport and his obsession has helped grow the series and widen the audience. Many of the great champions of today we all love to watch idolised him as kids and drew inspiration from him ... that in itself is probably his biggest contribution to the sport.

That entire Phillip Island conspiracy was by far one of the lowest points in his career (along with Sepang 2015). Ruthless competitiveness is one thing but the claims he made at that PI press conference literally made him out to look like a complete paranoid nutcase.

Its great that Rossi has remained close with his childhood friends after all of his success, but that doesn't automatically qualify them to be good people. Uccio is nothing more than a moocher and a .... stirrer. Its disappointing that Rossi cannot see this when its so blatantly obvious to everybody else looking in. You may not be able to choose your family but you do get to choose your friends ... and Rossi has failed in this area.
 
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I'm a Rossi fan myself and have been ever since I noticed him in the 250cc scene when I was a teenager. The guy is no angel and not without his faults and I realise many members of this forum dislike him. With the mentality and behaviour of many of his one eyed fas I honestly can't blame them, its embarrassing for me to be associated with them. But the guy has devoted most of his life to the sport and his obsession has helped grow the series and widen the audience. Many of the great champions of today we all love to watch idolised him as kids and drew inspiration from him ... that in itself is probably his biggest contribution to the sport.

That entire Phillip Island conspiracy was by far the lowest point in his career. Ruthless competitiveness is one thing but the claims he made at that PI press conference literally made him out to look like a complete paranoid nutcase.

Its great that Rossi has remained close with his childhood friends after all of his success, but that doesn't automatically qualify them to be good people. Uccio is nothing more than a moocher and a .... stirrer. Its disappointing that Rossi cannot see this when its so blatantly obvious to everybody else looking in. You may not be able to choose your family but you do get to choose your friends ... and Rossi has failed in this area.

I don't entirely agree with all of this. The inner sanctum of Rossi is a cadre of carefully selected professionals - personnel that over the years he has developed trust and empathy with. Loyalty is everything, which made the treatment of JB all the more perplexing and shameful.

Uccio is as you say is a childhood friend and confidant, not some random sycophant or opportunistic hanger on that has blagged his way into Valentino's inner circle. He is effectively family. I am confident that he believes the allegations against Marquez are legitimate and that he was acting in Rossi's best interests - but as you say, that doesn't mean that Vale was obliged to uncritically accommodate such flawed judgement, fallacious reasoning and humiliate himself in the process. Having said that, Uccio merely sowed the seed. I recall after the sweeping incident in Losail, Valentino remarked that he had been looking for a reason to fall out with Gibernau for a while . Why? Because he dared to challenge him - it wasn't about the demotion on the grid per se. Daring to race Rossi? - Not only is such audacity and temerity historically regarded an affront to VR but a cardinal sin in Tavullia and heresy to the legions of yellow clad cultists that have obsessively transformed our race circuits into a Sunday Mass and routinely declare Holy War against the blasphemers. It is also why we have crackpot hagiography such as the "unwritten rule of racing" rebounding around the vacuous echochamber of social media and .... punditry that should know better.

Actually I am more reminded of the Fatwas issued by the Ayatollah Khomeini when I consider some of the rhetoric that has come out of the Rossi garage over the years. Such corrosive and damaging narrative is precisely why we have entire grandstands cheering fallen riders and booing rostrums. Death to the infidel - dare to criticise any aspect of this yellow freakshow and you are immediately disdainfully branded a 'hater' - the ......

I agree, the undignified post race comments at PI and the subsequent pre-race press conference at Sepang was his lowest point, but he has previous form for this. I have long suggested that unlike some other riders who thrive under pressure, it does not bring out the best in VR and although such behaviour was not so prevalent owing to years of ludicrous comparative advantage - (which in some respects he still benefits from), the cynical mind games were still there. I always suspected when he came up from Moto2 that they wouldn't work on one Marc Márquez...and sure enough, they didn't.
 
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I'm a Rossi fan myself and have been ever since I noticed him in the 250cc scene when I was a teenager. The guy is no angel and not without his faults and I realise many members of this forum dislike him. With the mentality and behaviour of many of his one eyed fans I honestly can't blame them, its embarrassing for me to be associated with them. But the guy has devoted most of his life to the sport and his obsession has helped grow the series and widen the audience. Many of the great champions of today we all love to watch idolised him as kids and drew inspiration from him ... that in itself is probably his biggest contribution to the sport.

That entire Phillip Island conspiracy was by far one of the lowest points in his career (along with Sepang 2015). Ruthless competitiveness is one thing but the claims he made at that PI press conference literally made him out to look like a complete paranoid nutcase.

Its great that Rossi has remained close with his childhood friends after all of his success, but that doesn't automatically qualify them to be good people. Uccio is nothing more than a moocher and a .... stirrer. Its disappointing that Rossi cannot see this when its so blatantly obvious to everybody else looking in. You may not be able to choose your family but you do get to choose your friends ... and Rossi has failed in this area.
Everyone was to some degree a Rossi fan once, and i am still prepared to recognise his greatness, not least for still being competitive against the likes of MM and JL in his late 30s.

I mostly previously reserved my anger for the over the top element among his fandom, who vilified the recent rider of whom I was most a fan, Casey Stoner, to the extent that it significantly contributed to his premature retirement; even if he won he still lost. I saw the same thing happening to Lorenzo whom I follow, and MM whom I didn't so much, and considered it manifestly unfair, and also considered that the events of late season 2015 demonstrated Rossi to be fully complicit in the persecution of his rivals.

As I think I have said before, I have tempered my view about Rossi himself somewhat, with the knowledge that it was actually Rossi's entourage and Uccio in particular who came up with the PI conspiracy theory, and ongoing evidence that Rossi clearly genuinely believes it, as well as it seeming to be the case that Jorge was not really forced out at Yamaha by any machinations on Rossi's part, but perhaps at least to some extent genuinely wanted to try something new.

MM fairly clearly also genuinely believes he didn't do anything underhanded at PI 2015 however, and has commented many times about same, mostly to the effect of what I have been saying, that he won the race FFS. He has never bothered to make any substantive comment about how he raced at Sepang 2015 to my knowledge on the other hand.

One thing that is perhaps forgotten in all this is that Rossi's crazy fans, particularly in Italy I am led to believe, in the first days after the PI race wanted to lynch Iannone rather than MM for taking points away from Rossi, and it was not till Rossi personally exonerated Iannone and named MM the villain of the piece that the narrative changed, demonstrating both who was in charge of that narrative and the willingness of fans of that ilk to blindly take up such narratives when presented to them. Even the most extreme fans in the wider world, or Rossi himself, didn't come up with the MM tanked the race while winning it thing though, that apparently took the most extreme fan of all, one Uccio.
 
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I don't entirely agree with all of this. The inner sanctum of Rossi is a cadre of carefully selected professionals - personnel that over the years he has developed trust and empathy with. Loyalty is everything, which made the treatment of JB all the more perplexing and shameful.

Uccio is as you say is a childhood friend and confidant, not some random sycophant or opportunistic hanger on that has blagged his way into Valentino's inner circle. He is effectively family. I am confident that he believes the allegations against Marquez are legitimate and that he was acting in Rossi's best interests - but as you say, that doesn't mean that Vale was obliged to uncritically accommodate such flawed judgement, fallacious reasoning and humiliate himself in the process. Having said that, Uccio merely sowed the seed. I recall after the sweeping incident in Losail, Valentino remarked that he had been looking for a reason to fall out with Gibernau for a while . Why? Because he dared to challenge him - it wasn't about the demotion on the grid per se. Daring to race Rossi? - Not only is such audacity and temerity historically regarded an affront to VR but a cardinal sin in Tavullia and heresy to the legions of yellow clad cultists that have obsessively transformed our race circuits into a Sunday Mass and routinely declare Holy War against the blasphemers. It is also why we have crackpot hagiography such as the "unwritten rule of racing" rebounding around the vacuous echochamber of social media and .... punditry that should know better.

Actually I am more reminded of the Fatwas issued by the Ayatollah Khomeini when I consider some of the rhetoric that has come out of the Rossi garage over the years. Such corrosive and damaging narrative is precisely why we have entire grandstands cheering fallen riders and booing rostrums. Death to the infidel - dare to criticise any aspect of this yellow freakshow and you are immediately disdainfully branded a 'hater' - the ......

I agree, the undignified post race comments at PI and the subsequent pre-race press conference at Sepang was his lowest point, but he has previous form for this. I have long suggested that unlike some other riders who thrive under pressure, it does not bring out the best in VR and although such behaviour was not so prevalent owing to years of ludicrous comparative advantage - (which in some respects he still benefits from), the cynical mind games were still there. I always suspected when he came up from Moto2 that they wouldn't work on one Marc Márquez...and sure enough, they didn't.
Many of the Rossi hangers-on may be professionals, but they still constitute an "entourage" imo, particularly Uccio whom I tend to doubt contributes much in the way of gp bike racing expertise. I didn't find it too shocking that Rossi ditched JB, JB clearly had lost faith in him and considered him to be in decline, probably wrongly as it has eventuated. I do rather think JB was the last guy in his camp to actually tell Valentino things he didn't want to hear though.
 
I didn't find it too shocking that Rossi ditched JB, JB clearly had lost faith in him and considered him to be in decline, probably wrongly as it has eventuated. I do rather think JB was the last guy in his camp to actually tell Valentino things he didn't want to hear though.

Indeed, he was never a yes man.

I was more commentating on the apparent lack of sensitivity and manner of the dismissal. However, we can never be privy to the circumstances and conversations that were had behind closed doors.
 
Indeed, he was never a yes man.

Oh I don't know about that entirely.

After all he was pretty sure Stoner was underachieving on the Ducati...though it would be interesting to determine who originated the thought first, he or Valentino. And even that aside, I can't help but think that based on how Rossi has conducted himself over the years, JB couldn't have survived as long as he did without being a yes man of some sort.
 
Oh I don't know about that entirely.

After all he was pretty sure Stoner was underachieving on the Ducati...though it would be interesting to determine who originated the thought first, he or Valentino. And even that aside, I can't help but think that based on how Rossi has conducted himself over the years, JB couldn't have survived as long as he did without being a yes man of some sort.

I think that JB genuinely did feel that the Ducati had unfulfilled potential but I think otherwise he was always highly complimentary of CS and certainly never hid his desire to work with him.

Regarding your last sentence, on the contrary, I suspect that his lack of obsequiousness in that garage may have been his ultimate undoing.
 
I think that JB genuinely did feel that the Ducati had unfulfilled potential but I think otherwise he was always highly complimentary of CS and certainly never hid his desire to work with him.

Regarding your last sentence, on the contrary, I suspect that his lack of obsequiousness in that garage may have been his ultimate undoing.

Sure at the end it was likely his undoing, but when things aren't going according to finely laid plans, it's been my experience that obsequiousness is the first thing to go. But at the same time, looking at VR's entire stay in the premier class, I don't believe JB could have survived all those years without being a bit obsequious in nature for the duration of their pairing. While the relationship didn't end until the 2013 season came to a close, the Ducati stint is what sealed the fate of that particular relationship IMO. Even both going to Yamaha for 2013 wasn't enough to undo whatever really went on behind closed doors the prior 2 seasons.
 
While the relationship didn't end until the 2013 season came to a close, the Ducati stint is what sealed the fate of that particular relationship IMO. Even both going to Yamaha for 2013 wasn't enough to undo whatever really went on behind closed doors the prior 2 seasons.

I do agree. But we will never be privy to whatever really went went on behind closed doors.
 
Indeed, he was never a yes man.

I was more commentating on the apparent lack of sensitivity and manner of the dismissal. However, we can never be privy to the circumstances and conversations that were had behind closed doors.

Sure, that was the thing, JB had genuine family issues and could have been allowed to quietly fade away/retire. He was pretty much terminated with extreme prejudice.

It has been referred to by me and others before, but JB was on the Australian TV coverage of one of the races during Valentino's enforced hiatus in 2010 before the move was on, and seemed to have misgivings about Ducati then, strongly implying he thought they were a tinpot operation in comparison with Yamaha.
 
Sure, that was the thing, JB had genuine family issues and could have been allowed to quietly fade away/retire. He was pretty much terminated with extreme prejudice.

It has been referred to by me and others before, but JB was on the Australian TV coverage of one of the races during Valentino's enforced hiatus in 2010 before the move was on, and seemed to have misgivings about Ducati then, strongly implying he thought they were a tinpot operation in comparison with Yamaha.

I do recall reading something speculating that JB had family issues being a sick partner or something along those lines. Him being sacked would mean he wasn't in breach of contract and would have it paid out.


It was only speculation and may have no truth to it at all. Even if there was any truth in it, I don't think that would be something anyone would openly admit.
 
It would be amazing if JB released a tell all book about his years in the GP where he holds nothing back. I'm sure he saw a lot of shade dealings, tantrums etc. His years in the Gardiner, Doohan and Rossi camps would certainly make some good stories.
 
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It would be amazing if JB released a tell all book about his years in the GP where he holds nothing back. I'm sure he saw a lot of shade dealings, tantrums etc. His years in the Gardiner, Doohan and Rossi camps would certainly make some good stories.
Along with Hayden. I'm sure he has a few behind the scenes tales to tell as well.
 
I recall after the sweeping incident in Losail, Valentino remarked that he had been looking for a reason to fall out with Gibernau for a while . Why? Because he dared to challenge him - it wasn't about the demotion on the grid per se.
That's Marco Melandri's argument as well - that Rossi's your friend until you start to beat him.

That may have been an accurate generalization if not for the fact that Rossi had a generally good equation with Capirossi & Pedrosa who's record of finishing ahead of Rossi is a good deal more credible than Melandri's, and with Hayden who managed to achieve what Gibernau never could.
 
That's Marco Melandri's argument as well - that Rossi's your friend until you start to beat him.

That may have been an accurate generalization if not for the fact that Rossi had a generally good equation with Capirossi & Pedrosa who's record of finishing ahead of Rossi is a good deal more credible than Melandri's, and with Hayden who managed to achieve what Gibernau never could.

Capirossi I agree is the exception to the rule.

Dani has never been a serious rival for Rossi, apart from the occasional invincible weekend when he beats everyone Rossi has always had his measure, unless you think Rossi had a competitive bike in 2012, an opinion I doubt Valentino would share.

The narrative about Hayden in 2006 was certainly not about him outriding Rossi, although that was the season where there were as many competitive bikes as in any season in recent decades, and Rossi pretty much dismissed HRC with Hayden as a threat when he left Honda.
 
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Capirossi I agree is the exception to the rule.

Dani has never been a serious rival for Rossi, apart from the occasional invincible weekend when he beats everyone Rossi has always had his measure, unless you think Rossi had a competitive bike in 2012, an opinion I doubt Valentino would share.

The narrative about Hayden in 2006 was certainly not about him outriding Rossi, although that was the season where there were as many competitive bikes as at as any season in recent decades, and Rossi pretty much dismissed HRC with Hayden as a threat when he left Honda.
Gibernau wasn't a very serious threat to Rossi's GOAT narrative either. That remained unscathed until Stoner on the GP7 entered the picture. And Pedrosa was (in later years) at least as much of a hurdle for Rossi as Capirossi.
 
Gibernau wasn't a very serious threat to Rossi's GOAT narrative either. That remained unscathed until Stoner on the GP7 entered the picture. And Pedrosa was (in later years) at least as much of a hurdle for Rossi as Capirossi.

OK, Dani and Valentino had a friendly genuine rivalry when Dani wasn't recovering from various broken body parts.

I will believe you, but thousands wouldn't.
 

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