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Agree, im not buying at all Ianonne's version of what happened.
Rossi says relationship with Marquez “can never be recovered”
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Agree, im not buying at all Ianonne's version of what happened.
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Here were Rossi’s own words:
"I was pushing and very close to the limit. Iannone overtook me a bit too aggressively and in that braking point his action was too strong and it was impossible to overtake so I went wide and he passed me. I said to myself: “Now what happens?” I tried to counterattack, but I didn’t have enough grip or speed to make a move, so I stayed behind him and when I saw that Iannone tried to improve his position and go under Dovizioso, he unfortunately couldn’t stop and took out also Dovi, so I was very lucky to arrive in second place."
Rossi explained he did NOT have the pace to stay with Iannone. In fact he told us the very thought he had at the moment. It was a version of, 'damn, now what do I do?' Because he had nothing.
So...he followed behind, because he had no choice. As far as the "gift"; well, I'm not sure anybody can interpreted Rossi's own words any differently, he said: "I was very lucky to arrive in second place." Uhm, I didn't realize that is a confusing statement.
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That is exactly what I think Iannone was doing, "easing his bike up to Dovi's right knee". And that's when his front tire let go. His trajectory didn't quite have the Jerez 05 punt trajectory, though there was plenty of space inside of Dovi, which isn't being recognized.
In a perfect world, maybe Iannone has time to figure out the square root of 7, in a fluid situation, knowing Rossi's propensities, add to that Rossi’s desperate air about him this year, it's reasonable to expect Iannone believe at the moment (split second decisions) that he needed to guard the inside. These guys aren't perfect, and I'm not going to expect that they always are to get it right because we may think their experience is something infallible. Without looking it up Mick, how many overtakings do you think occurred at turn 13 during the race? How many of those overtakings do you think directly or indirectly involved Iannone? Just take a guess.
I have no reason to disbelieve Iannone.
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I have no reason to disbelieve Iannone. Why do you think he is lying?
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Because it sounds better than the truth. He was desperate to beat Dovi after crashing out of 3 races in a row.
I lost my mind and tried a pass that in no circumstance would ever stick, doesnt sound good coming from a guy who is fighting for his seat
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No idea... 15 overall; 7 with AI?
Not sure what point u r trying to make and what bearing it would have on the last lap incident...
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Hey, get outta my head!!
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Because it sounds better? That's it?
I get there is 'motive' to lie, that's not enough of a reason to decide summarily he is lying though. That's what I'd call circumstantial conclusion. You are concluding because he had reason to lie, therefore he did lie. Well no ...., isn't that always the case between telling the truth and telling a lie? If the standard was to conclude people lie every time they had motive to lie nobody would ever tell the truth!
And even if he had said, look I tried too hard to beat my teammate, I didn't pull it off, this to you would have sounded worse? Not me, because at this point this is absolutely the expectation. No team orders. They are in fact at a point in the season where it is reasonable to expect him trying to beat his teammate. Certainly the circumstance would be different later in the season if one was out of contention, his approach would be a bit less aggressive, though it would still be expected of him to try and beat eachother.
Your standard to call Iannone's integrity is thin. So far nothing Iannone has done or said in the championship has led me to believe his integrity is questionable. He didn't pull over for Rossi at Phillip Island. Unfortunately we didn't get to see if he would pull over for Rossi at Valencia because he crashed out (though to his credit he may have been trying to beat Dovi). In addition, I personally didn't detect anything in Iannone's body language to suspect lying. And I'll add, from the racing maneuver itself, in my opinion it was more covering the inside than it was an overtaking attempt. His explanation confirmed my understanding of the move.
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Well, I wouldn't think I'd have to explain the relevancy (bearing), but yet again, it would seem this has to be spelled out.
It is relevant because as you alluded, these professional racers employ their experience as well as reactions to the race as it unfolds (the bearing part you seek to understand).
There were 4 passes exactly at the spot (turn13) all for passes either involved Iannone (and Dovi) or he may have had a front row seat to watch the passes.
Lap 1: Iannone passed Lorenzo.
Lap 2: Marquez passed Dovi (which means Iannone had to have seen it).
Lap 7: Iannone passed Dovi, then Dovi retook on the inside.
Lap 8: Maverick passes BOTH Ducatis of Iannone and Dovi.
Think about that, 4 passes at that very spot, so Iannone had to have inputted that into his memory for the last lap. And I'll add Dovi was leaving space, the 'door open' (it's why he was passed at this spot before). In fact Dovi had been passed there 3 times, once by Marquez, by Iannone, and Maverick.
Relevance: Iannone, like most experienced racers (and I reject he is stupid) would have placed that in the back of his mind. It was a point on the track that presented a very real passing opportunity, even a 'double passing' opportunity, as Viñalez demonstrated. He also is particularly acutely aware of Rossi's propensities, having watched him and possibly emulated him throughout the years. He may have figured (right or wrong) that Rossi might attempt a Jerez 05 on the very space he had witness Ducatis being passed multiple times during the race. It's not unreasonable this thought was processed. Other than you on a hunch disbelieving Iannone, the explanation he offered makes sense.
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Arrabbiata1
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Then it would seem you're two years behind on your analysis.
There you go J4rn0 - it never takes long. Care to chime in?
Sigh...neither does the 'I'm an ex-racer...honest' card. Strangely, it always seems to be the Rossi wannabes. Is your name Maise8 or Harry Jones?
Then don't attempt to pass it as fact.
Hey my friend, show me where I said I was an ex-racer. Oh you can't? Right, because I didn't say that.
Your anti-bopper crew attempts to pass theory as fact all the time, so I'm simply returning the favor. In fact, some joker on another thread attempted to tell me that Rossi was the only recipient of the Saturday Night Special tires back in the day, which is complete bs. Nicky Hayden has said in an interview that most of the top guys got them. I would think the "Paddock Playboy" would be in the know about such matters.
Those same top guys also talk about how the tyres were made to suit Rossi with data taken from Burgess.
All of the Michelin factory riders had access to the overnight specials. They were designed with data gathered during Friday practice, then shipped "overnight" to European venues from Michelin's headquarters in France for the race on Sunday.
Even at the fly away rounds, where michelin couldn't supply overnight specials, Rossi still won.
Can you point me to where these top guys talk about the tires being made to suit Rossi???
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Both Colin Edwards and Randy Mamola said this exact thing. They said others got the SNS but it was commonly believed they were suited for Rossi. So yes, you are correct, others got those tires. Let's call them "Rossi Specials". (After all SNS is just an arbitrary name, you do understand that right?) Would you be trying to make the same point by saying "other riders got 'Rossi Specials'?
Anyway, You can go look for the quote. Not that it would change your mind, you'll just say they didn't know or whatever. But if you expect to read it in a formal Michelin press release you'll never find it. That's the nature of rigging. It's kept out of the public eye.
Yes wiseass, I know it's an arbitrary name. So how do you know that Michelin TRULY tailored these tires for Rossi. Just because a few riders said they "think" they were? How do we know those riders weren't just saying that out of bitterness?
I'm willing to say there's no way of knowing for sure, but I'm confident you will say they DEFINITELY were made for Rossi because of your overt hatred for him.
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What about at Assen last year? The four races prior to this Lorenzo won all of them. When Assen came along with cool weather and no chance of tyres overheating, Bridgestone announced that Lorenzo's favoured tyres with decent edge grip won't be alowed.
Instead it was announced that the herder tyres that Rossi favoured were to be used instead. Marquez questioned this as he favoured them too. When asked by a journalist on TV why he thought they weren't allowed he replied "we all know why, but we aren't allowed to say why", when an irate Rossi barged into the interview to change the subject. It was seen by the riders as a clear move by the organisers to prevent another run away victory by Lorenzo as Rossi and his fans were already complaining that the "show" was boring because their hero wasn't winning. It was a clear indication the riders felt Dorna were massaging the rules to engineer a way for Rossi to win again in order to placate the yellow horde and increase their viewing figures.
In his early years Rossi was indeed a good racer and a breath of fresh air to the sport.
Since his rise to power the guy has tainted the sport with his baseless vendettas and abuse against any rider who has seriously challenged him. Last year when he tried it on Marquez in a cowardly vicious attack in Sepang, it bit him on the ... and when Rossi had his meltdown it tainted his reputation too. If he'd have kept his mouth shut and raced he could've taken the title. Instead he chose to continue with his attacks and inflamed the idiotic section of his so called racing fans, leaving us with the disgusting booing at races this season.
If Rossi really is the decent sportsman he claims to be, he'd go public and ask those fans to refrain from their booing and bad behaviour. Instead when questioned he chose to deny any knowledge of it by saying "I don't know nothing" as he's a narcissist who enjoys having what he sees as power and an edge over his rivals. He's shown his true colours and they are indeed yellow!
If Rossi still feels he's the best, why doesn't he just race and win, not ..... and moan, even to the extent of making life untenable at Yamaha for Lorenzo and publicly goading him to leave.
The guy wants the best bike in the world to himself with a doormat team mate, giving him an "open goal" towards his 10th title that he so craves. That's his true aim as he's little faith in himself to beat Lorenzo on equal footing now.
I was once a Rossi follower like Michael but his behaviour turned me away.
Valentino is a great rider, especially for his age, but a horrible nasty bully who stoops to anything to get his own way. The smiling and friendly persona he presents in public and for the cameras is a sham, behind it is a ruthless evil man who thinks nothing of hurting anyone who gets in his way.
Open your eyes mate, I guarantee you'll see it one day...
Instead it was announced that the herder tyres that Rossi favoured were to be used instead. Marquez questioned this as he favoured them too. When asked by a journalist on TV why he thought they weren't allowed he replied "we all know why, but we aren't allowed to say why", when an irate Rossi barged into the interview to change the subject. It was seen by the riders as a clear move by the organisers to prevent another run away victory by Lorenzo as Rossi and his fans were already complaining that the "show" was boring because their hero wasn't winning. It was a clear indication the riders felt Dorna were massaging the rules to engineer a way for Rossi to win again in order to placate the yellow horde and increase their viewing figures.
In his early years Rossi was indeed a good racer and a breath of fresh air to the sport.
Since his rise to power the guy has tainted the sport with his baseless vendettas and abuse against any rider who has seriously challenged him. Last year when he tried it on Marquez in a cowardly vicious attack in Sepang, it bit him on the ... and when Rossi had his meltdown it tainted his reputation too. If he'd have kept his mouth shut and raced he could've taken the title. Instead he chose to continue with his attacks and inflamed the idiotic section of his so called racing fans, leaving us with the disgusting booing at races this season.
If Rossi really is the decent sportsman he claims to be, he'd go public and ask those fans to refrain from their booing and bad behaviour. Instead when questioned he chose to deny any knowledge of it by saying "I don't know nothing" as he's a narcissist who enjoys having what he sees as power and an edge over his rivals. He's shown his true colours and they are indeed yellow!
If Rossi still feels he's the best, why doesn't he just race and win, not ..... and moan, even to the extent of making life untenable at Yamaha for Lorenzo and publicly goading him to leave.
The guy wants the best bike in the world to himself with a doormat team mate, giving him an "open goal" towards his 10th title that he so craves. That's his true aim as he's little faith in himself to beat Lorenzo on equal footing now.
I was once a Rossi follower like Michael but his behaviour turned me away.
Valentino is a great rider, especially for his age, but a horrible nasty bully who stoops to anything to get his own way. The smiling and friendly persona he presents in public and for the cameras is a sham, behind it is a ruthless evil man who thinks nothing of hurting anyone who gets in his way.
Open your eyes mate, I guarantee you'll see it one day...
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I would agree that some riders did reveal this out of bitterness as you suggested. Wouldn't you be bitter if you had dedicated your life to racing only to look like a chump because the golden boy got the good tires? I forgot to mention, you can add Casey Stoner to that list of riders who revealed Michelin had a tier system. Maybe he revealed it because he was bitter too. You know, giving up your home, going to a foreign country, living out of a trailer, consuming your parent's nest egg, giving up your childhood and teenage years, relationships, dieting and physical training, only to get to the pinnacle of racing and be denied competing on a level playing field because the organizers were happy to have the defacto tire supplier giving a rival "the good stuff". (That's a quote from Randy Mamola's Alpinestars blog in reference to the SNS.) Yeah, someone might be bitter, in fact revealing such a reality might precipitate people to call you a "moaner". Not to mention a "crasher" because from the moment the lights went out he was on 2nd tier tires designed to be...well 2nd tier tires.
So are you guys basically saying Rossi is the Lance Armstrong of Motogp??
No, we are saying the Lance Armstrong was the Valentino Rossi of TdF. He was a ....... amateur compared to Rossi. His influence in proportion to the size of the size of the tv show was much smaller and that's why he was eventually destroyed.
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I always have and still do rate Rossi as a rider, including for being as good as he is at his current age as you say, and don't go much for the conspiracy theories about his titles. As I think I have said elsewhere, I see him racing-wise as like Doohan, getting on a good bike for a good team because he was good, and taking the bike and team (bikes and teams in his case as there have been 2 for him) forward.
My objection to him is mostly the hate campaigns you refer to against any and all rivals, which I am now of the belief he has orchestrated and used to his advantage, having previously blamed the crazy element among his fandom only. I thought Jumkie put it well in his post concerning the Rossi era being a toxic work environment substantially of his creation for any vaguely competitive rider not prepared to be completely servile in regard to the great one.
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