Circuits aren't flat so he is over the hill often on a race weekend
Rossi says relationship with Marquez “can never be recovered”
- Thread starter JPSLotus
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Circuits aren't flat so he is over the hill often on a race weekend
Joined Jan 2016
801 Posts | 401+
Uk
I tend to agree with your last sentence, but imo it would take extraordinary circumstances for Dovi (he won once in the wet in his years on an HRC bike) or a Suzuki to win, partly because of the quality of the HRC and Yamaha factory riders (or 3 of them currently anyway) admittedly.
Rossi's riding is not what deserves admonishment, apart from that minor incident you may not have heard about at Sepang last year.
I was about to "like" your post until the last sentence. Nowhere did I mention anything about that incident. I agree, it was not pretty, and that's coming from a Rossi fan. I'm talking strictly riding here, and people who say he's over the hill at this point.
And here's another point. Maybe only a handful of bikes, and thus riders, have a realistic chance of winning on a given weekend. Don't you think it's because they are the BEST riders???? If Smith was a better rider than Lorenzo, I'm quite certain Yamaha would have him on a factory bike. My pojnt is this: All the factory riders, in my opinion, are there because they have a proven talent. Rossi included (although I do admit that his name value also has something to do with it.)
My takeaway from this is, if you only criticize Rossi, and praise other riders, than you are nothing more than a "bopper" for the other guys. So how can anything you say be taken seriously??
Not necessarily as if they are the best bikes, does it no go that by extension those riding them should be achieving the best results and thus making themselves seem to be the better riders?
Let us look at facts.
All 4 riders on the factory Yamaha and Honda have not ridden any other bike than a full factory machine (and that does include the Nastro bike).
You mention Smith and there is any number you could throw in but were they on the factory bikes with the full factory resources I suspect that their results would be better than that they achieve now.
They may not be as good as the top 4 (being the HRC/Yamaha boys) but at the same time, one cannot say that they are less skilled as they are achieving good results on bikes recognised as sub par.
The old, top 4 bikes for top 4 riders is a bit of a myth as the top 4 bikes generally are provided to the top 4 CHOSEN riders
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Google 2011 motogp year. See what happens when best rider doesn't have best bike? Sun God crashes back to earth with a thump. Becomes a dreaded also ran, racing with the likes of Bradley Smith. Oh and he's over the hill.
Actually Koscinski was a crackpot but I agree with one of his theories. That riders should have get chance in motogp on a top ride then make way for the younger guys. its been near on two decades of Rossi, Rossi, Rossi. Time to retire old man, give the young guys a go.
I am devastated that I went so close to being "liked" by you, then failed at the last hurdle. Guess I will never join Facebook where such disappointment no doubt similarly awaits me.
The 3 riders to whom I was referring included Rossi btw, Dani looks eminently beatable by the "non-alien" bikes you mention.
I have spent the last several days arguing against people with whom I largely agree in favour of the quality of Rossi's riding, past and recent. It just struck me when making the post that I couldn't in all honesty say that Rossi's riding deserved no admonishment given that Sepang 2015 was only 4 races ago. I agree he rode very well last year otherwise.
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Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Gaz you old goose, of course I agree with you that guys like Smith and whomever else would do better on a factory ride. However, I don't think they'd do better than the current factory guys now.
You mention the CHOSEN factory riders. Well why do you think the factories CHOSE them?? Is it because they suck? Did Honda pick Marquez because he was losing races?? Come on man, there are a few exceptions but for the most part, riders are selected because they are superior to other riders.
Would you not agree that most of the motogp riders have had similar chances to show their talents while working their way through the lower classes?
I feel horrible that I caused you devastation and disappointment. Can you ever forgive me?
But we cannot know that without them having the opportunity, thus the perpetual cycle continues
But how can you tell the superiority if they are not on even machinery ?
You earlier said that the best riders have the best equipment and as such the assumption is that they actually ARE the best riders. You then also seemingly agree that the best machinery allows these riders to demonstrate their higher degree of skills.
Yet, you seemingly cannot also see that the chosen ones are given the better opportunities (equipment) and thus continue to produce results higher than those on lesser equipment. The cycle continues.
As for why they are the chosen ones, well VR, MM, JL etc all had good equipment coming through the ranks and thus were always producing exceptional results which bought them attention and opened doors ........ but when riders on recognised lesser equipment get the doors open people complain of unworthiness.
In addition, in some cases riders may be chosen for marketability reasons for their country or region and as such they may receive an opportunity that another similarly performed rider may not have received
Nope, not at all
Jack Miller was on an underperforming bike as an example by comparison to many others against whom he raced. He, along with many has lesser resources (dollars/sponsorship) and as such some opportunities may not arise (in Miller's case, it has risen and yet it is still questioned whilst riders deemed of greater ability struggle in Moto2 for example)
Stoner's bike was not that great in the feeder classes and yet when he eventually produced results that could not be ignored, he was still the third choice of the factory team.
Problem is that the cream only rises to the top if the cream is capable of doing so, and sometimes (IMO) there may well be better or near equal riders not given opportunities.
This is NOT the fault of the factories and nor is it the fault of Rossi (before you suspect), it is the fault of limited opportunities and the sports administrators trying to generate a marketing strategy based around few riders.
Now, I am not suggesting that MotoGP should be a spec series, far from it as for me open slather is the way to go but if we are to look at results and the way in which the chosen are advantaged, look no further back to the last non-Factory win and/or review the podiums over the last 10 years. Again, all IMO but it does not look good for a sport when the chances of winning (with the exception of the remarkable outside the square circumstances) are restricted to 4 bikes with a further 3 that may, only may get there.
Because intelligent persons know that was due to top guys having really bad years
. Last year won't repeat again, even though his luck hasn't run out yet, inheriting an undeserved 2nd place on last race. He knew it was his last real chance to get another title, and started doing all kinds of dirty crap to make it happen. Glad as hell he couldn't pull it off.
Gaz, don't forget about moto2
The goal of this races is just what you are asking for.
Enviado desde mi Sony Xperia
The goal of this races is just what you are asking for.
Enviado desde mi Sony Xperia
True to a degree ........... chassis is an issue there as is the dollars available but it is much closer to a good series from which to base thoughts as there are no full factory efforts and thus theoretically, more bikes are race winnable.
Because intelligent persons know that was due to top guys having really bad years
I LOVE how you Rossi haters say he inherited an undeserved 2nd place. However, if it happened to Lorenzo or Marquez, you would say it was well deserved.
Rossi's second place WAS deserved as he was able to stay on his bike, unlike Vinales. Right? I would argue that Rossi upped his pace when he saw the Ducati's closing on him, thus putting more pressure on them, causing one of their guys to try a desperate pass.
If that is really what you would argue, I'm sorry but it show's that you are definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Neither Duc was feeling pressure from Rossi. It's quite simple an explanation. Ianone is an ..... quite often, and this was one of those instances. He made an impossible pass that had only one outcome. It's a prime example of not much between the ears. Not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Perhaps YOU are not a sharp tool my friend. Did you even watch the race? Or are you just "Monday morning quarterbacking"?? Because if you HAD watched the race, you should have heard Moody & Ryder mention that Rossi had increased his pace when Vinales was threatening, and then again when the Dukes passed him.
Wanna try again??
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I disagree bro. Iannone is a smart, brave, aggressive, and honest racer. If you're judging him on that front tire wash-out on a Mishitlin that has claimed many riders, including Lorenzo in that very race, in tricky patchy conditions, in a maneuver to protect his position from a possible Jerez 05, then I think you're being much too harsh.
Iannone being Italian was subjected to mind-boggling criticisms by people who were ready to eat his unborn children because he had enough integrity to race his friend and fellow Italian at Phillip Island; the epicenter of what later Rossi would reveal was a "sham" of a race. He earned my respect.
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