rd2, jerez... race rants........SPOILERS

Tom · May 3, 2010

Duc999 said:
Thanks Wander..You got my point exactly... No matter the rules/bike change etc..The best riders will be at the front..

That is true to an extent, but some riders may be at the front and comprehensively the best, yet find themself unable to adapt to changing circumstances (see Carl Fogarty). This doesn't make their previous performance any less imressive.

Jumkie said:
This is a place for exchanges of opinions, so dont get ur panties in a bunch when those opinions r challenged against the reality of the topic.

Classic Jumkie, does it never cross your mind that other people opinions are as well founded as your own? Can you really sit there with a straight face and tell someone you are countering their opinion with the 'reality of the topic' rather than just your opinion of it?

LorenzoFan said:
Im not saying the M1 was crap by any means, but it definitely wasnt "top equipment" like Duc999 stated in his post.

It was no 'worse' than the 2007 Ducati

chopperman · May 3, 2010

TP70 said:
I agree. Lorenzo' first few attempts at passing Dani were poor and to me showed poor race craft and no strategy to set it up. I do respect his ride though and will one day respect the rider when and if he can do it on a bike that is not the class of the field.

Funny how people are writing Stoner off. I suggest they will be eating their words soon enough just as those that did the same to Rossi had to do.

And the stupid post of the year goes too. TP70.

Seriously this is ....... lame man. How the .... can you say his pass attempts were poor and he showed poor race craft when he carved his way through the field and won the ....... race ? Then go on to say he needs to prove he can race on a lesser bike to glean your respect. Dont you remember his rides in 08 when sure he had the fiat yam but it was shod with tyres that saw him being spat off in the direction of mars yet he still raced hard & won races sometimes with horrific injures, or doesn't that count for anything with you because he is still on the factory yam.

LorenzoFan · May 3, 2010

Tom said:
It was no 'worse' than the 2007 Ducati

According to who and what basis?

We all know that 2007 bikes went around the track faster than 2003 bikes.

TP70 · May 3, 2010

chopperman said:
And the stupid post of the year goes too. TP70.

Seriously this is ....... lame man. How the .... can you say his pass attempts were poor and he showed poor race craft when he carved his way through the field and won the ....... race ? Then go on to say he needs to prove he can race on a lesser bike to glean your respect. Dont you remember his rides in 08 when sure he had the fiat yam but it was shod with tyres that saw him being spat off in the direction of mars yet he still raced hard & won races sometimes with horrific injures, or doesn't that count for anything with you because he is still on the factory yam.

Thanks Rog it is great to win something especially in such illustrious company as here.

I wouldn't say he carved his way through the field. He passed 4 bikes I think and most of them at the end of the straight (2 Ducati's who were just trying to get home,1 Yamaha who was just trying to bag some points and then Dani who was over riding his wayward Honda). I was not referring to any of the passes besides Dani where he had several rushed attempts which could have easily taken both down.

As far as him proving himself, well in my opinion he has not. I reckon you could stick Randy on that bike and he would be up there and we would be sing his praises. Jorge has lucked onto the best bike on the grid. Ok he won a couple of 250 champs against average competition and his timing was impeccable. Just look at the latest 2 x 250 WC's who are languishing on crap satellite bikes. Do you think either of them will get a factory Yamaha next year on the performances they are turning in on a satellite bike? If the rookie rule existed when Lorenzo stepped up then most likely this conversation would not be taking place. Don't get me wrong I reckon he is a great rider but I don't think he is the next coming of the GOAT.

As far as racing injured goes well last time I checked there are no special points awarded for that. I will give him points though for being so inaccurate with his throttle that he can still launch him self into space on such heavily traction controlled bikes. No one else has been able to achieve that.

L8Braker · May 3, 2010

Unfotunately a boring race until the Lorenzo caught Pedrosa. I kept thinking Jumkie called it and they were going to take each other out promoting Rossi, Hayden, and Stoner to the podium, but Lorenzo managed to get by and take the win.

I said that Pedro-turd would improve over the weekend, but have to admit I didn't see that much of an improvement, but given that it's his home race he should have done well.

Rossi, GOAT, what else can you say, he sat back and got valuable points, he will heal up over these 3 weeks and come back stronger at LeMans.

Damn Hayden, go boy, that's two races in a row with great starts and good riding. Beating Stoner I believe for the first times in a heads up race. Do I think Stoner is worried, not yet, but when we get to some Ducati tracks and Hayden keeps beating him he may start worrying. I think Stoner will come good, Ducati seem to have a good package right now.

Speaking of Ducati, did anyone find out if Hayden/Stoner did in fact toast 1 motor each over the weekend?

rossiofsky · May 3, 2010

What a nice race by Lorenzo, i like his style a lot. and i liked his jump in that water. He is the next showman of motogp after Vale.

Rossi did enough for his condition, while i miss his overtakings, i have to say he hasn't had much time to do so, he was leading the first race, and couldn't do anything in the second, fortunatly he had a very good start and that made his podium a guarantee.

Pedrosa was superb with his ride and he almost won it, i hope he continue with this form. It was nice to see his fight with George, they almost crashed.

Hayden did another good performance and he bear Stoner for the whole race.

Stoner had a few problems (i read his interview). but i,m sure he will comeback as strong as he does.

nice fights between Melandri and Simoch and Kalio.

tikki50 · May 3, 2010

poor poor Spies. Well actually the one time I met the guy he was a told ...., so... whateva!

Tom · May 3, 2010

LorenzoFan said:
According to who and what basis?

On the same basis the 2004 Yamaha was considered inferior.

yamaka46 · May 3, 2010

Tom said:
On the same basis the 2004 Yamaha was considered inferior.

The 2007 Ducati was the first of its type (ie no prior history, good or bad) and won 11 (10 Stoner, 1 Capirossi) out of 18 races, often easily, against the new 800s from Yamaha (4 wins, Rossi), Honda (2 wins, Pedrosa), Suzuki (1 win, Vermuelen) and Kawasaki.

How can this be compared to the 2004 M1 which was an evolution of the 2002-3 bike, admittedly with the skill of JB and Rossi doing the improvements? The '04 M1 won 9 races (all with Rossi), but the 02-03 M1s were only capable of winning 3 races (all Biaggi, 1 in 02, 2 in 03).

Apples and Oranges...

Tom · May 3, 2010

yamaka46 said:
The 2007 Ducati was the first of its type (ie no prior history, good or bad) and won 11 (10 Stoner, 1 Capirossi) out of 18 races, often easily, against the new 800s from Yamaha (4 wins, Rossi), Honda (2 wins, Pedrosa), Suzuki (1 win, Vermuelen) and Kawasaki.

How can this be compared to the 2004 M1 which was an evolution of the 2002-3 bike, admittedly with the skill of JB and Rossi doing the improvements? The '04 M1 won 9 races (all with Rossi), but the 02-03 M1s were only capable of winning 3 races (all Biaggi, 1 in 02, 2 in 03).

Apples and Oranges...

Well the way i see it , in both cases we have a bike that in the right hands dominated the championship but riders without the expertise to unlock its potentia struggled. Checa managed 38% of Rossi's points in 04, while Loris managed 45% of Casey's points in 07. Most would agree that Loris is a better rider than Carlos, and Checa's status in the team will have worked against him too. The situations are pretty similar.

Keshav · May 3, 2010

Arrabbiata1 said:
That Pedrosa doesn't smile isn't our issue, and screw the fact that he's got the personality of a hatstand and a charisma bypass to boot. I take issue with the manner in which he criticised his teammate over a his lack of development skills, concerning an abortion of a bike that was built for him in the first place and imposed on others. I take issue with the fact that he took his teammate out when he was on the cusp of beating the greatest motorcycle racer in the history of the sport to a World Championship in 2006, and dismissively waved his hand as he trudged off in the other direction without even checking on the welfare of his fellow rider. I take issue with the way he stormed out of a three day tyre test for Michelin after a day while his team mate was putting in more miles than the Space Shuttle, and I also take issue with the spineless way in which he is dominated by his manager.

Which leads me to the fact that we have exhaustively debated Puig on this forum already. There are endless testimonies to the mans nasty character. Dead simple, read Ring of Fire for a summary of these, from those riders that have been through his ranks. I'd also like to repeat on here what I said earlier. Feeding incorrect timing on a pit board at Sachsenring cost Dani the race, his title bid in 2008, and it could have, God forbid, cost him his life. - we saw him do this yet again at Jerez today.The sooner that twisted .... is finally curtailed by Dorna, IRTA and HRC the better. Pedrosa should take a leaf out of Jorge's book and kick him into touch, just as Lorenzo did to the similarly deranged Amatrian.

But really, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

MdubSTYLIE · May 3, 2010

I dont know why you all are hating so much on this race, I enjoyed it from begining to end. Except the spies tire issue, which I am ready to conspire against rossi. I am sure he had something to do with it.

We had 69 outright beating the cookie monster. The two Marco's and RdP were going at it. Killio went from worst to, not bad for a ....... And unless you are stupid or can't do math you could see that Jorge was going to catch Vale and Pedro with like 9 laps to go. Or am I just developing old eagle eyes (babels) ability to see things other cannot? I know! It's cause you all watched it on speed channel and didn't see .....

Jumkie · May 3, 2010

Tom said:
Classic Jumkie, does it never cross your mind that other people opinions are as well founded as your own? Can you really sit there with a straight face and tell someone you are countering their opinion with the 'reality of the topic' rather than just your opinion of it?

Of course Tom, I know its just exchange of mere opinions buddy, except my opinions are right.

[< you see this emoticon? It generally and most of the time represents sarcasm or poking fun while attempting friendly banter.] Actually, your second question is a good one, the answer is no, I don't sit here with a "straight face", I'm usually laughing my ... off at how touchy some people can get once their opinions are challenged. (I especially take great pleasure when the recipient was the first to disagree, only to receive a equal dose of differing opinion). Its funny to me; so I poke more fun until frustrated people start using the '....' card because their counter argument fell short. I guess I'm an ... that way sometimes. Keep in mind, this forum is not psychotherapy and I'm not anyones counselor, so my "judgmental" opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. In other words, don't take me or whatever is said on this forum too seriously.

BACK ON TOPIC: Anyway, so what you think about Edwards dropping back. It reminded me of Laguna when they came out with a bum set of tires. I'm wondering if Bstone had a poor lot and Tech 3 some how got them.

Arrabbiata1 · May 3, 2010

Jumkie said:
BACK ON TOPIC: Anyway, so what you think about Edwards dropping back. It reminded me of Laguna when they came out with a bum set of tires. I'm wondering if Bstone had a poor lot and Tech 3 some how got them.

Rear grip - or lack of it appears to have been the problem.

Edwards

Jumkie · May 3, 2010

Arrabbiata1 said:
Rear grip - or lack of it appears to have been the problem.

Edwards

Ah thanks. I guess I should read the morning news.

Spies says he didn't want to risk crashing. So I'm assuming its not just a tire issue but something with the front end (he says it wasn't reacting right)? Because assuming it was just a tire, I wonder if coming in to change it then proceeding on getting more track time would have been fruitful. Maybe not, perhaps the risk outweigh the benefits of a few more laps of track knowledge.

tikki50 · May 3, 2010

I gotta agree with that I would think that spies should have taken on a new tire and went back out there, at least rule the tire out. I mean really there's a race going on so, I think it would be in his best intrest to head back out, unless he really wants to follow Toe-jams's career path back to WSBK. I know the guy can ride, so get out there on the track you dont know and learn it, get as many laps in as possible.

Jumkie · May 3, 2010

Tom said:
...I think this year we'll find out if he is to be one of those riders who seems to make themself a contender regardless of circumstance (like Lorenzo and Rossi seem to) or be the kind that has the speed but gives the impression they are waiting for things to unfold in their favour (Like Dani or Nicky for example).

Really Tom, this year we will find out if Casey gots what it takes to be a contender?

(Its hard to keep track of your changing takes on riders, but while you are wondering if Casey is thinking about the championship, check this out):

“I came up to pass Nicky I lost the front and almost crashed.

…and from that moment I just wanted to take as many points as I could.” CS

“I tried to go with Dani but then I started to slide a lot and I just had to play it safe.” VR

I'd say this should answer your question, as you can see their championship strategy is eerily similar, so no need to question Stoner's effectiveness to make himself a contender since by your own admission, you say Lorenzo/Rossi got it together.

As to your second point, so Nicky was "waiting" on things to simply unfold in his favor? Maybe he was waiting for Pedro to develop the bike again for him right? [sarcasm] How exactly did you get this "impression" Tom? I realize you may think all opinions are created equal; but, If anything, I'd say most rational people have had quiet decidedly the opposite impression. I'd say most people's impression has been that Nicky has worked hard and helped develop a unridable bike into something that he and others can handle. And this progress has been slow and arduous.

Tom · May 3, 2010

Jumkie said:
so my "judgmental" opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. In other words, don't take me or whatever is said on this forum too seriously.

Don't worry i don't

Tom · May 3, 2010

Jumkie said:
Really Tom, this year we will find out if Casey gots what it takes to be a contender?

(Its hard to keep track of your changing takes on riders, but while you are wondering if Casey is thinking about the championship, check this out):

I'd say this should answer your question, as you can see their championship strategy is eerily similar, so no need to question Stoner's effectiveness to make himself a contender since by your own admission, you say Lorenzo/Rossi got it together.

As to your second point, so Nicky was "waiting" on things to simply unfold in his favor? Maybe he was waiting for Pedro to develop the bike again for him right? [sarcasm] How exactly did you get this "impression" Tom? I realize you may think all opinions are created equal; but, If anything, I'd say most rational people have had quiet decidedly the opposite impression. I'd say most people's impression has been that Nicky has worked hard and helped develop a unridable bike into something that he and others can handle. And this progress has been slow and arduous.

Besides picking appart the details, do you catch my drift? i guess its about stature and reputation. Some riders are considered steady but not necessarily the fastest, some are considered rapid but a liability, some we say are invinvible on their day but unspectacular when things aren't just right, some are 'wet weather guys', etc. Now you know as well as anyone that i don't thats significant when it comes to results, who cares if you are steady, or a wet specialist or one track wonder. A win is a win a title is a title and they all deserve their credit. I guess i'm just wondering what kind of rider Stoner is gonna be this year, it seems poorly recieved around here, i'm speculating because lets face it, thats fun.

xx CURVE xx · May 3, 2010

it's 2 races in ladies

rd2, jerez... race rants........SPOILERS

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