rd2, jerez... race rants........SPOILERS

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I very nearly forgot that the Spanish GP was this weekend--good thing I checked the BBC Sport website on Saturday and saw that Dani got pole. Anyway, after reading from various sites that he wasn't happy with the bike, off to mass I went Sunday afternoon (yeah, blame the Catholic in me) and prayed that he'll get a win or a podium. Guess I should have been really specific.
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While I am annoyed that JLo got the win, I have to say that it was truly a well-deserved one. I'm no fan but I do respect his talent and fine, his post-race stunts did make me laugh.
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Also, what's with the sudden man-love between Danibot and Horhey? What are they, BFFs now? It might take a while for me to get used to all this rainbows and butterflies between them.
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Overall, I'm just happy that Dani seems to be back to fighting form. Plus, he seems to be more mature and less uptight now. I have a feeling though that this is going to be JLo's year.
 
I very nearly forgot that the Spanish GP was this weekend--good thing I checked the BBC Sport website on Saturday and saw that Dani got pole. Anyway, after reading from various sites that he wasn't happy with the bike, off to mass I went Sunday afternoon (yeah, blame the Catholic in me) and prayed that he'll get a win or a podium. Guess I should have been really specific.  
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While I am annoyed that JLo got the win, I have to say that it was truly a well-deserved one. I'm no fan but I do respect his talent and fine, his post-race stunts did make me laugh.  
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Also, what's with the sudden man-love between Danibot and Horhey? What are they, BFFs now? It might take a while for me to get used to all this rainbows and butterflies between them.  
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Overall, I'm just happy that Dani seems to be back to fighting form. Plus, he seems to be more mature and less uptight now. I have a feeling though that this is going to be JLo's year.





You Cathy-Licks are insane!  Do you really think god cares who wins a dumb motorcycle race?    
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  (And even IF he was in the mood to accept prayer requests and work miracles, who's to say he'd chose to listen to you!    
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Peddles is showing tantalizing signs that he's slowly becoming an adult.  If he can find the strength to ditch Puig, he'd be in danger of becoming a man.  I honestly think that doing so would give him the much needed dose of deep confidence that would allow him to flower.  Until then, and so long as Alberto is posting BS pit signs and controlling his every action, he'll continue to struggle.   Tis a shame, I suppose.
 
You Cathy-Licks are insane!  Do you really think god cares who wins a dumb motorcycle race?    
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  (And even IF he was in the mood to accept prayer requests and work miracles, who's to say he'd chose to listen to you!    
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 )



I was being cheeky. And besides, my prayers got a 2nd place.
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I do read in my above quote that I did give respect for this particular ride.







I have never said his passes were aggressive I just thought that he got to the back of Pedro and tried to pass too quickly without really thinking where he was going to do it. Once he had a couple of failed attempts he lined him up properly and went straight by. I acknowledge there was only a lap and a bit to go and time was running out but he nearly took them both down rushing a pass that he was clearly going to make.



As far as after race interviews I have read 2. There is one on Kro's site and another on crash so I am unsure at what you are referring to here Jaz.



Rog, what fan boy bleat are you referring to? The one in response to your bopper vomit comment?

Are you new to racing or something ? it's called pressurizing your opponent by keep nearly passing them. In the hope you will force them into a mistake which he did .Some call it half wheeling. And as for you now saying you gave lorenzo respect haha I guess you now see your opinion was unpopular so have decided to start back peddling
 
Are you new to racing or something ? it's called pressurizing your opponent by keep nearly passing them. In the hope you will force them into a mistake which he did .Some call it half wheeling. And as for you now saying you gave lorenzo respect haha I guess you now see your opinion was unpopular so have decided to start back peddling





Rog why do you waste your time on this muppet
 
good question mate, seems im wasting time on another muppet in the stoner warm up thread too
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damn i need to get out more. roll on silverstone
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Lol too true mate. I havn't read that thread since the first page but let me throw a wild guess that its BM
 
Are you new to racing or something ? it's called pressurizing your opponent by keep nearly passing them. In the hope you will force them into a mistake which he did .Some call it half wheeling. And as for you now saying you gave lorenzo respect haha I guess you now see your opinion was unpopular so have decided to start back peddling



Come on Rog, pressurising? There is a big difference between pressurising and doing what Lorenzo did. Pedro did not make a mistake when the pass occurred. Lorenzo got cleanly up the inside and pushed Pedro wide. No mistake and a good pass. Seen it a hundred times before.



Why would I need to back peddle? It was my first post on this thread. I did not edit it and it is there for all to read. I am a big boy and would not be intimidated if this was face to face let alone being unpopular with 2 or 3 keyboard jockeys on a public forum.



Rog why do you waste your time on this muppet



Are Johnny, thanks for playing. Is a two way debate too much for you to keep up with? Couldn't think of anything else to say? That's ok, call someone a name and then go home and tell mummy that the kids in the playground were being mean. She will make you a cup of hot cocoa and read you a bed time story.
 
Are Johnny, thanks for playing. Is a two way debate too much for you to keep up with? Couldn't think of anything else to say? That's ok, call someone a name and then go home and tell mummy that the kids in the playground were being mean. She will make you a cup of hot cocoa and read you a bed time story.



Oh man your just too funny for this place
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Where did you steal the pic of the 750 piece of .... from?
 
Great win by Jorge. Kudo's to Pedders and Hayden. Rossi did ok, and is blessed by something, even though I'm atheist. I'll give it 2 more races till I see whether the new Duc is a goose around stoner's neck.
 
Great win by Jorge. Kudo's to Pedders and Hayden. Rossi did ok, and is blessed by something, even though I'm atheist. I'll give it 2 more races till I see whether the new Duc is a goose around stoner's neck.



Ducati had to choose between continue developing the StonerDuck, or trying to make a bike suitable to more riders. They chose not to be too much rider-dependent, so went for the big bang etc. In 2008 we had Yamaha "ducatizing" their bike to adapt it to the Bridgestones, in 2010 we have Ducati going a little the Furusawa way to humanize their screamer.



I do not think Stoner was any slower than in previous years in Qatar, and neither was he slower in Jerez compared to previous years. So probably it's not the Duck. The big news is that Stoner's teammate, for the first time, can ride with him, or ahead of him even.

How Stoner is reacting to this -- not being the only rooster in the chickenhouse any more -- that is the key to his current and future performances, perhaps?
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Personally I'm sure he'll be back with a vengeance, soon.
 
Ducati had to choose between continue developing the StonerDuck, or trying to make a bike suitable to more riders. They chose not to be too much rider-dependent, so went for the big bang etc. In 2008 we had Yamaha "ducatizing" their bike to adapt it to the Bridgestones, in 2010 we have Ducati going a little the Furusawa way to humanize their screamer.



I do not think Stoner was any slower than in previous years in Qatar, and neither was he slower in Jerez compared to previous years. So probably it's not the Duck. The big news is that Stoner's teammate, for the first time, can ride with him, or ahead of him even.

How Stoner is reacting to this -- not being the only rooster in the chickenhouse any more -- that is the key to his current and future performances, perhaps?
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Personally I'm sure he'll be back with a vengeance, soon.



Ducati didn't Yamaha-ize their bike. The screamer makes no sense unless you can use it to achieve max power. Stoner was actually capable of setting the bike up so that its full potential could be realized. When the engine life rules went into affect there was no reason to continue with the old firing order. They didn't change the bike b/c they wanted to make a Yamaha, they changed the bike b/c they needed to make the fastest bike possible with a lower rpm threshold.



I really think this entire Ducati thing is very easy to figure out. The screamer required a lot of rearward weight bias b/c the screaming rear wheel needed to stay bolted to the tarmac. The rearward weight bias also improved the performance with the front end (as long as you could still feel the front end). Hayden was notorious for setting up the GP9 with too much front end weight bias which not only made him slightly slower into the corners, it also made the rear end too light which caused him to be slow out of the corners. When the switched to the big bang, Hayden got rear end grip and low end grunt. The new bike doesn't punish you for being a bit slow into the corners. The screamer did.



Casey, on the other hand, reported that his setup was yielding too much rear end grip. I'm sure Ducati have done lots of things to address the problem, but after experiencing temperature problems with the front tire at Qatar, and after a wipe out at Jerez on Friday probably revealed a similar problem, I suspect Ducati went conservative and had Stoner put a bit more weight over the front of the bike. If the bike has more weight at the front, Stoner can't push it as hard. During the race Stoner reported that the front feel was amazing, but he kept folding the front. Imo, this is a surefire sign that Ducati increased weight distribution to the front tire.



I think Ducati probably only need minor changes to the bike to help Casey get heat into the front tire. Unfortunately, the right solution has been elusive.
 
Oh man your just too funny for this place
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Where did you steal the pic of the 750 piece of .... from?



750 is a great bike and it is my second one. I am not skillful enough to handle anymore so it would be a waste. I do like the early reports of the 2011 ZX10 though.
 
I wouldn't say he carved his way through the field. He passed 4 bikes I think and most of them at the end of the straight (2 Ducati's who were just trying to get home,1 Yamaha who was just trying to bag some points and then Dani who was over riding his wayward Honda). I was not referring to any of the passes besides Dani where he had several rushed attempts which could have easily taken both down.



As far as him proving himself, well in my opinion he has not. I reckon you could stick Randy on that bike and he would be up there and we would be sing his praises. Jorge has lucked onto the best bike on the grid. Ok he won a couple of 250 champs against average competition and his timing was impeccable. Just look at the latest 2 x 250 WC's who are languishing on crap satellite bikes. Do you think either of them will get a factory Yamaha next year on the performances they are turning in on a satellite bike? If the rookie rule existed when Lorenzo stepped up then most likely this conversation would not be taking place. Don't get me wrong I reckon he is a great rider but I don't think he is the next coming of the GOAT.



As far as racing injured goes well last time I checked there are no special points awarded for that. I will give him points though for being so inaccurate with his throttle that he can still launch him self into space on such heavily traction controlled bikes. No one else has been able to achieve that.



With all do respect TP, I think you're being a bit harsh on Lorenzo. Sure he didn't go from last to first, but "carving" up the field is just as good a description to characterize him passing the top 4 bikes, which, as the natural order of things would have it, they are generally the toughest to pass in a race. I'm not sure the Ducs were just trying to get home, in fact, after watching the race several times now (yeah, dude, its a disease, hahaha) I noticed that it took him a bit of calculation to pass Nicky as he followed him for a bit, then as you say, passed him on the straight. But even this was not handed to him, as you recall Nicky actually outbroke him; but then going in too hot ran wide. Lorenzo then proceeded to do the same with Rossi, who on a great day is never easy to pass. Then there was the task of reaching Pedros, which was a feat in of itself, as you may remember the gap looked sizable in the waning laps no less. When he arrived to Pedros, I suppose we've been conditioned into thinking he'd just move out of the way, as he has done in the past when pressured, poor midget has the reputation of barley fighting out of a wet paper bag. But to our surprise, Dani actually fought back, funny but I wonder if that even took Lorenzo by surprise too, (maybe that explains the flustered pass you describe, hahaha.) I wouldn't say his Honda was that "wayward" as in fact, it lead most of the race, even until the beginning of the final lap actually. Lorenzo is credited for leading only one lap, in reality it was half a lap, this is not testament that his pass attempts were poor, but in my opinion, that it was the culmination of several factors mainly, lack of time, that made his passes seem hasty. You may feel they were poorly executed, perhaps, but considering the circumstances, they were effective nonetheless. If I had to give you an example of a bonsai pass: do you remember Rossi's pass at the corkscrew? Hahahaha



I think you make a great point about the current & former (Hiroshi/Marco Sim) 250 champs "languishing" on a sat bike, not to mention a multiple 250 champ (Loris) who is languishing on a sub par 'factory' bike. I've said many times, the nature of prototype racing has much to do with the machine. I agree, Lorenzo is on a great bike, but I'm not so sure I'd say he "lucked" into it, as he did win against a decent crop of rivals, twice. And hes made the best of that opportunity, taking it to Rossi, to the point of the guy complaining to his employer, eh. You ask if Lorenzo was subject to the sat bike rule, would we be having this conversation? Well I concede, maybe not exactly, but consider that Spies is on a sat bike, most consider him a shining example of how a very good rider can impress on nonfactory gear.



Yes, you are correct, no points awarded for riding hurt. And Lorenzo has certainly not been the only rider to do so. But in regard to admiration, it goes a long way in my book. This is why I think so highly of Stoner and am repelled by those who disparage him because he didn't have a x-ray to prove something inside him was broken. I admire Lorenzo for riding with freshly broken bones, certainly it was a result of his mistakes as you say, but only he can chose to get back on and ride. Just like Stoner, who after being sick for several rounds, finally had to stop and heal facing perhaps unforeseen career ending consequences. I'll confess, I'd be the lessor man in such circumstances, and for this I marvel at their spirit.
 
Come on Rog, pressurising? There is a big difference between pressurising and doing what Lorenzo did. Pedro did not make a mistake when the pass occurred. Lorenzo got cleanly up the inside and pushed Pedro wide. No mistake and a good pass. Seen it a hundred times before.



Why would I need to back peddle? It was my first post on this thread. I did not edit it and it is there for all to read. I am a big boy and would not be intimidated if this was face to face let alone being unpopular with 2 or 3 keyboard jockeys on a public forum.



I agree with you here TP. My impression of Lorenzo's first attempt on Pedrosa is that it were in fact a classic Pedrosa style ill attempt, stuffing it on the inside, without determination, with bad timing and way to risky.

For those commentators not obsessed with Pedrosas non existing personality this was the most frequent critic of Pedrosa in the early years. And as we all know it finally rewarded him at the end of the '06 season. I've seen less of that in the 800 era but then again I can hardly remember Pedrosa passing anyone on an 800 if not on the straights, or it could be that he actually learned something
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With all do respect TP, I think you're being a bit harsh on Lorenzo. Sure he didn't go from last to first, but "carving" up the field is just as good a description to characterize him passing the top 4 bikes, which, as the natural order of things would have it, they are generally the toughest to pass in a race. I'm not sure the Ducs were just trying to get home, in fact, after watching the race several times now (yeah, dude, its a disease, hahaha) I noticed that it took him a bit of calculation to pass Nicky as he followed him for a bit, then as you say, passed him on the straight. But even this was not handed to him, as you recall Nicky actually outbroke him; but then going in too hot ran wide. Lorenzo then proceeded to do the same with Rossi, who on a great day is never easy to pass. Then there was the task of reaching Pedros, which was a feat in of itself, as you may remember the gap looked sizable in the waning laps no less. When he arrived to Pedros, I suppose we've been conditioned into thinking he'd just move out of the way, as he has done in the past when pressured, poor midget has the reputation of barley fighting out of a wet paper bag. But to our surprise, Dani actually fought back, funny but I wonder if that even took Lorenzo by surprise too, (maybe that explains the flustered pass you describe, hahaha.) I wouldn't say his Honda was that "wayward" as in fact, it lead most of the race, even until the beginning of the final lap actually. Lorenzo is credited for leading only one lap, in reality it was half a lap, this is not testament that his pass attempts were poor, but in my opinion, that it was the culmination of several factors mainly, lack of time, that made his passes seem hasty. You may feel they were poorly executed, perhaps, but considering the circumstances, they were effective nonetheless. If I had to give you an example of a bonsai pass: do you remember Rossi's pass at the corkscrew? Hahahaha



I think you make a great point about the current & former (Hiroshi/Marco Sim) 250 champs "languishing" on a sat bike, not to mention a multiple 250 champ (Loris) who is languishing on a sub par 'factory' bike. I've said many times, the nature of prototype racing has much to do with the machine. I agree, Lorenzo is on a great bike, but I'm not so sure I'd say he "lucked" into it, as he did win against a decent crop of rivals, twice. And hes made the best of that opportunity, taking it to Rossi, to the point of the guy complaining to his employer, eh. You ask if Lorenzo was subject to the sat bike rule, would we be having this conversation? Well I concede, maybe not exactly, but consider that Spies is on a sat bike, most consider him a shining example of how a very good rider can impress on nonfactory gear.



Yes, you are correct, no points awarded for riding hurt. And Lorenzo has certainly not been the only rider to do so. But in regard to admiration, it goes a long way in my book. This is why I think so highly of Stoner and am repelled by those who disparage him because he didn't have a x-ray to prove something inside him was broken. I admire Lorenzo for riding with freshly broken bones, certainly it was a result of his mistakes as you say, but only he can chose to get back on and ride. Just like Stoner, who after being sick for several rounds, finally had to stop and heal facing perhaps unforeseen career ending consequences. I'll confess, I'd be the lessor man in such circumstances, and for this I marvel at their spirit.



Good response Jumkie. Thanks.



Couple of things I would say.



It is my personal impression of Lorenzo only and know one else has to agree. You make a good comparison to Spies in response to my comment about, what if Lorenzo having to prove himself on a satellite bike? See my thoughts on the two are that Spies will impress because he has something special that I guess is hard to verbalize. He came into WSBK and won on a bike that everyone thought was the best bike but then when the media guys and ex races rode it they all commented on Spies skills to win on that bike because it was not the best. So you see I think Spies has that same something special that Rossi and Stoner have. Lorenzo I think is a great rider on a great bike but he doesn't have that special something. I understand how people can easily be fooled into believing he has because he is on such a great bike and team and people also relate to all the pathetic carry on after the race because they have been brought up on Rossi so they think the off track persona contributes to making him a great rider. This is evident because all these same people think Stoner is not a good rider because he doesn't do it. See I don't give a .... about him jumping in a lake after the race. I said to myself when he did that - "what a tosser". In the end I reckon if you put Lorenzo on the same bike as Spies in the same team over the season Spies would out shine him.



All that said I still think he is a great rider in a field of mostly good riders but there are also a couple of once in a lifetime riders in the field that in my opinion he has not yet matched nor do I personally think he will ever match.
 
I agree with you here TP. My impression of Lorenzo's first attempt on Pedrosa is that it were in fact a classic Pedrosa style ill attempt, stuffing it on the inside, without determination, with bad timing and way to risky.

For those commentators not obsessed with Pedrosas non existing personality this was the most frequent critic of Pedrosa in the early years. And as we all know it finally rewarded him at the end of the '06 season. I've seen less of that in the 800 era but then again I can hardly remember Pedrosa passing anyone on an 800 if not on the straights, or it could be that he actually learned something
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It is unusual that we see eye to eye so thanks for standing in the firing line beside me. I think you have raised a relevant side issue that often people are swayed in their opinion or miss entirely what happens on track because of what happens off it. I made this point in my post above in response to Jumkie.



Anyway I don't expect we will see eye to eye all that often so this time it is appreciated.
 

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