rd2, jerez... race rants........SPOILERS

I think Lorenzo falls into that brawler category. It seems to me, he's at his best when in a close battle. He's lost a few to Rossi, but he's managed to push Valentino harder than anyone else I've seen. And Rossi is amongst the greatest of all time in that respect, in my opinion, alongside Schwantz. He doesn't have the pure speed, or the tactics, but he's gut the balls and talent to fight with anyone. He may never string together multiple championships, but he's got the talent to have a career similar to Schwantz's.

chopperman said:

Nowhere near as early as declaring Spies has the IT factor

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Or in my opinion... Nowhere as calling Pedrosa or Stoner having the 'IT' factor. I just don't see them getting in Top Class like 1/2 the Championships they participate in! Much the less 70% (7 out of 10) so far.

Well thats one man's idea of the "it" factor. We all hav our own. I think in this sport, if ur not on the best or near the best bike, then ur not "it".

Jumkie said:

Well thats one man's idea of the "it" factor. We all hav our own. I think in this sport, if ur not on the best or near the best bike, then ur not "it".

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Well the standarts have to be way high for the 'It' to be 'It'!

Oh, I forgot... I even lower 'It' to 50% (Half the 'Top Class' Championships they participate in!).

V. No comprende ur point. R u saying Stoner doesnt have ur definition of "it" factor?

chopperman said:

Nowhere near as early as declaring Spies has the IT factor

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Spies does have the it factor for a world champion---#3 the superbikers IT factor. Somehow someway he has a preternatural ability to emerge from tough on track brawls and tight championship races with wins and championships. I wouldn't say he's too fast to catch, and I wouldn't declare that his race craft is impeccable---not at the GP level anyway. Time will tell whether or not he has the IT qualities of a MotoGP legend.



Personally, I think he's too big for GP, but I hope he proves me wrong.

Jumkie said:

V. No comprende ur point. R u saying Stoner doesnt have ur definition of "it" factor?

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Si compadre, hasta ahora en mi opinión Stoner (o Pedrosa) No tienen 'el factor' que los elevaría a 'Leyenda del Motociclismo'.



In English: I do not think Stoner or Pedrosa have the 'It' factor to elevate them to Legends of MotoGP.

VHMP01 said:

Si compadre, hasta ahora en mi opinión Stoner (o Pedrosa) No tienen 'el factor' que los elevaría a 'Leyenda del Motociclismo'.



In English: I do not think Stoner or Pedrosa have the 'It' factor to elevate them to Legends of MotoGP.

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So basically, ur "it" factor is limited to only Rossi. Ah, okay...

Jumkie said:

So basically, ur "it" factor is limited to only Rossi. Ah, okay...

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Well, DUH!!!  

Geonerd said:

Well, DUH!!!

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God you made me laught Geonerd! Indeed... Duh!!!

Jumkie said:

So basically, ur "it" factor is limited to only Rossi. Ah, okay...

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Tell me Jumks, of the 320 Riders that have wan at least one race in All Classes (I don’t have data in other Championships), how many would you elevate to ‘Legendary Status’ having the ‘It’ Factor?



Abe Norick, Agostini Duilio, Agostini Giacomo, Ahearn Jack, Alzamora Emilio, Ambrosini Dario, Amm Ray, Anderson Fergus, Anderson Hugh, Andersson Kent, Anscheidt Hans-Georg, Aoki Haruchika, Aoki Nobuatsu, Aoyama Hiroshi, Armstrong Reg, Auinger August, Aureal Jean, Azuma Masao, Bald╔ Jean Francois, Ballerini Andrea, Ballington Kork, Barbera Hector, Barrington Manliefe, Barros Alex, Bautista Alvaro, Bayliss Troy, Beattie Daryl, Bell Artie, Bergamonti Angelo, Bertin Guy, Biaggi Max, Bianchi Pierpaolo, Bolle Jacques, Bonera Gianfranco, Bradl Helmut, Bradl Stefan, Braun Dieter, Brett Jack, Brigaglia Domenico, Bruins Jan, Bryans Ralph, Buscherini Otello, Cadalora Luca, CaÐellas Salvador, Caldarella Benedicto, Campbell Keith, Cann Maurice, Capirossi Loris, Card┌s Carlos, Carpenter Phil, Carruthers Kel, Carter Alan, Casanova Bruno, Casoli Paolo, Cecchinello Lucio, Cecotto Johnny, Celso-santos Adu, Checa Carlos, Chevallier Olivier, Chili Pierfrancesco, Coleman Rod, Colnago Giuseppe, Conforti Pier Luigi, Copeta Angelo, Cornu Jacques, Corsi Simone, Crafar Simon, Creith R., Criville Alex, Czihak Edmund, Dale Dickie, Daniell Harold, De Angelis Alex, De Puniet Randy, De Radigues Didier, De Vries Jan, Debon Alex, Degner Ernst, Di Meglio Mike, DÍrflinger Stefan, Dodds John, Doohan Mick, Doran William, Dovizioso Andrea, Drapal Janos, Duff Mike, Duke Geoff, Ekerold Jonnie, Elias Toni, Emmerich Ingo, Espargaro Pol, F▄gner Horst, Faubel Hector, Felgenheier Roland, Fernandez Patrick, Ferrari Virginio, Ferri Romolo, Filice Jim, Findlay Jack, Foster Bob, Freymond Roland, Frith Freddie, Frutschi Michel, Gadea Sergio, Gandossi Alberto, Gardner Wayne, Garriga Juan, Gianola Ezio, Gibernau Sete, Goi Ivan, Gould Rodney, Graf Ulrich, Graham Leslie, Graham Stuart, Gramigni Alessandro, Grant Mike, Grassetti Silvio, Grau Benjamin, Gresini Fausto, Guilleux Herve, Gustafsson Leif, Haas Werner, Hailwood Mike, Hansford Greg, Harada Tetsuya, Hartle John, Hartog Wil, Hasegawa Horoshi, Hayden Nicky, Hennen Pat, Herrero Santiago, Herreros Manuel, Herron Tom, Herweh Manfred, Hocking Gary, Hollaus Rupert, Huberts Jan, Iannone Andrea, Ireland Dennis, Ito Fumio, Itoh Mitsuo, Ivy Bill, Jacque Olivier, Jansson Borje, Jefferies Tony, Jenkner Steve, Kafka Gerd, Kallio Mika, Kanaya Hideo, Kassner Helmut, Katayama Takazumi, Katayama Yoshimi, Kato Daijiro, Kavanagh Ken, Kissling Jorge, Kneub▄hler Bruno, Kobayashi Masaru, Kocinski John, Korhonen Pentti, Koyama Tomoyoshi, Laconi Regis, Lansivuori Teuvo, Lavado Carlos, Lawson Eddie, Lazzarini Eugenio, Lega Mario, Leoni Gianni, Leoni Guido, Liberati Libero, Locatelli Roberto, Lodewijkx Paul, Lomas Bill, Lorenzetti Enrico, Lorenzo Jorge, Lucchi Marcellino, Lucchinelli Marco, Luthi Thomas, M▄ller Hermann Paul, Magee Kevin, Mamola Randy, Manako Tomomi, Mang Anton, Marsovszky Gyula, Martinez Jorge, Masetti Umberto, Mccandless Cromie, Mcconnachie Ian, Mccoy Garry, Mccullough Ray, Mcintyre Bob, Mcwilliams Jeremy, Melandri Marco, Mendogni Emilio, Middelburg Jack, Milani Alfredo, Minter Derek, Miyazaki Osamu, Molloy Ginger, Monneret Pierre, Morishita Isao, Mortimer Chas, Mudford Ken, Nakano Shinya, Nash Godfrey, Newbold John, Newcombe Kim, Nieto Angel, Nieto Fonsi, Nieto Pablo, North Alan, Oettl Peter, Okada Tadayuki, Pagani Alberto, Pagani Nello, Palazzese Ivan, Palomo Victor, Parlotti Gilberto, Pasini Mattia, Pasolini Renzo, Pedrosa Dani, Perris Frank, Perugini Stefano, Pesek Lukas, Phillis Tom, Pileri Paolo, Poggiali Manuel, Pons Sito, Porto Sebastian, Prein Stefan, Provini Tarquinio, Puig Alberto, Rainey Wayne, Raudies Dirk, Read Phil, Redding Scott, Redman Jim, Reggiani Loris, Reitmaier Fritz, Ricci Fausto, Rittberger Herbert, Robb Tommy, Roberts Jr Kenny, Roberts Kenny, Rolfo Roberto, Romboni Doriano, Rossi Graziano, Rossi Valentino, Roth Reinhold, Rougerie Michel, Ruffo Bruno, Ruggia Jean Philippe, Rutter Tony, Saarinen Jarno, Sakata Kazuto, Sala Guido, Sandford Cecyl, Sanna Simone, Sarron Christian, Sarron Dominique, Saul Eric, Scalvini Gianluigi, Schneider Bert, Schurgers Jos, Schwantz Kevin, Selini Jean Claude, Sheene Barry, Shepherd Alan, Simmonds Dave, Simon Julian, Simoncelli Marco, Smith Barry, Smith Bradley, Spaan Hans, Spaggiari Bruno, Spencer Freddie, Stastny Franta, Stoellinger Edi, Stoner Casey, Surtees John, Taira Tadahiko, Takahashi Kuninitsu, Takahashi Yuki, Talmacsi Gabor, Tamada Makoto, Tanaka Kenjiro, Taveri Luigi, Terol Nicolas, Thurow Gerhard, Timmer Theo, Toersen Aalt, Tokudome Masaki, Tomizawa Shoya, Tormo Ricardo, Torrontegui Herri, Tournadre Jean Louis, Tsujimura Takeshi, Ubbiali Carlo, Ueda Noboru, Ui Youichi, Ukawa Tohru, Uncini Franco, Van Dongen Cees, Van Dulmen Boet, Van Kessel Henk, Van Zeebroeck Julien, Venturi Remo, Vermeulen Chris, Villa Walter, Vincent Arnaud, Vitali Maurizio, Waibel Gerhard, Waldmann Ralf, West Anthony, Wheeler Arthur, Williams Charlie, Williams John, Williams Peter, Wimmer Martin, Wood Tommy, Zeelenberg Wilco.

"'Racer wins but drowns in pond' would not have been a great headline!"









http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2782

Wow, there are only 320 race winners in the history of all GP classes? How many if you count only the top class?

somedamnwriter said:

"'Racer wins but drowns in pond' would not have been a great headline!"

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2782

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Moody must have been pissed, stoned or both when he wrote that article. If not then he is gay and in love with Lorenzo. Not that there is anything wrong with that!

Wander said:

Wow, there are only 320 race winners in the history of all GP classes? How many if you count only the top class?

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MotoGP / 500cc... 101 Wander:



Abe Norick, Agostini Giacomo, Ahearn Jack, Amm Ray, Anderson Fergus, Armstrong Reg, Barros Alex, Bayliss Troy, Beattie Daryl, Bergamonti Angelo, Biaggi Max, Bonera Gianfranco, Brett Jack, Cadalora Luca, Caldarella Benedicto, Capirossi Loris, Carpenter Phil, Cecotto Johnny, Checa Carlos, Chili Pierfrancesco, Colnago Giuseppe, Crafar Simon, Creith R., Criville Alex, Czihak Edmund, Dale Dickie, Daniell Harold, Doohan Mick, Doran William, Dovizioso Andrea, Duke Geoff, Elias Toni, Ferrari Virginio, Findlay Jack, Frutschi Michel, Gardner Wayne, Gibernau Sete, Graham Leslie, Grant Mike, Hailwood Mike, Hartle John, Hartog Wil, Hayden Nicky, Hennen Pat, Herron Tom, Hocking Gary, Ireland Dennis, Kanaya Hideo, Katayama Takazumi, Kavanagh Ken, Kissling Jorge, Kocinski John, Laconi Regis, Lansivuori Teuvo, Lawson Eddie, Liberati Libero, Lomas Bill, Lorenzo Jorge, Lucchinelli Marco, Magee Kevin, Mamola Randy, Masetti Umberto, Mccandless Cromie, Mccoy Garry, Mcintyre Bob, Melandri Marco, Middelburg Jack, Milani Alfredo, Monneret Pierre, Mortimer Chas, Nash Godfrey, Newbold John, Newcombe Kim, Okada Tadayuki, Pagani Alberto, Pagani Nello, Pedrosa Dani, Puig Alberto, Rainey Wayne, Read Phil, Redman Jim, Roberts Jr Kenny, Roberts Kenny, Rossi Valentino, Saarinen Jarno, Sarron Christian, Schwantz Kevin, Sheene Barry, Shepherd Alan, Simmonds Dave, Spencer Freddie, Stastny Franta, Stoner Casey, Surtees John, Tamada Makoto, Ukawa Tohru, Uncini Franco, Van Dulmen Boet, Venturi Remo, Vermeulen Chris, Williams John.

TP70 said:

Moody must have been pissed, stoned or both when he wrote that article. If not then he is gay and in love with Lorenzo. Not that there is anything wrong with that!

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Why ? He seem's to only be saying what most of us here have been saying to you through out this thread. As for celebration stunts, Well its just having a laugh and entertaining the fan's. Get over it !

TP70 said:

I don't think you can deny that there is a contingent that value the persona very highly in their evaluation of a rider.

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I agree completely. It's normal that if you are endeared to someones personality you will hold their achievements in higher regard. Rossi's popularity is a great example of this, as is the unpopularity of somoene like Michael Schumacher. But even the business like down the line type racers are not without their fans, i suspect your decleration of Spies' supremacy is related to the fact you are endeared to his personality and attitude, you said yourself it is similar to Stoner's.



As for your opinion that 2 AMA SBK and one WSBK title is worth more than 2 250cc World Cahmpionships, i'd have to disagree. As Tikki has pointed out Spies had effectively 1 competitor in the AMA, and you don't have to know to much of the sports history to see the acheivements of 250cc graduates vs superbike graduates in motogp. As roger pointed out world superbikes is filled almost exclusively with riders who's GP careers failed, much like touring car drivers being F1 rejects. I accept that 250cc sucess did depend on being on a factory bike, but i can't think of many riders who i think realistically would have been championship contenders had there been more top bikes available for them. Also Dovi's performance on the Honda (runner up 2 years in a row) goes a long way to demonstrating that either A) With the huge importance of the bike in 250 its only fair to conclude that the disparity between the bikes isn't as big as its often perceived, of the rider can still shine and make the difference over a season. Either way Lorezo deserves his credit.

Tikki said:

His only real competition was his teammate, no one else on the gird ever really came close to matching the Suzuki.

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SackWack said:

Spies takes a totally different approach. He is more calculating and precise. I think that he has more brains than Lorenzo

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I totally disagree, i think Lorenzo is one of the most intelligent riders out there, his talent is obvious but his attitude and application to bettering himself and learning are second to none and thats whats really impressed me about Lorenzo since he moved to motogp. It's also worth noting to anyone who is a doubter that Lorenzo has been easily the best rookie since Rossi and the best since motogp went 4 stroke (where rookie performances have generally been lower than in the 2 stroke days).



But hey i would say all that because im endeared to Lorenzo, thats what being a fan is all about.

Tom said:

I totally disagree, i think Lorenzo is one of the most intelligent riders out there, his talent is obvious but his attitude and application to bettering himself and learning are second to none and thats whats really impressed me about Lorenzo since he moved to motogp. It's also worth noting to anyone who is a doubter that Lorenzo has been easily the best rookie since Rossi and the best since motogp went 4 stroke (where rookie performances have generally been lower than in the 2 stroke days).



But hey i would say all that because im endeared to Lorenzo, thats what being a fan is all about.

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Exactly were do you see his progress? Is it the way he highsides that change over the years? I mean, his high side at LC '08 were no doubt more spectacular than the '09 version.But is that progress? Some would say that is going the wrong way, putting on a less spectacular show

Tom said:

I totally disagree, i think Lorenzo is one of the most intelligent riders out there, his talent is obvious but his attitude and application to bettering himself and learning are second to none and thats whats really impressed me about Lorenzo since he moved to motogp. It's also worth noting to anyone who is a doubter that Lorenzo has been easily the best rookie since Rossi and the best since motogp went 4 stroke (where rookie performances have generally been lower than in the 2 stroke days).



But hey i would say all that because im endeared to Lorenzo, thats what being a fan is all about.

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If you'll revisit 2006, you'll find that Dani was a better rookie. He won more races, scored more points (in fewer races), and had fewer DNFs.



Not that I'm a huge fan of Dani's, but Dani showed more promise in his rookie season than Jorge. I rate Jorge higher than Dani and I actually enjoy watching Jorge ride, but honestly, Jorge has got a ways to go before he can touch Stoner or Rossi. Stoner and Rossi can win 3 or 4 on the bounce and both have won double digits in a single season. Even last season, Stoner won as many races as Jorge did. Lorenzo is a phenomenal talent, but he needs to work on his mental focus, imo. He's had 9 DNF's in his first 2 seasons. Can't win a championship like that. Most DNFs in one season by the world champ: 2



He's off to a good start, and I hope he wins b/c it would be nice to have 4 premier class world champions on the grid.