rd2, jerez... race rants........SPOILERS

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I completely disagree. I have been pulling for Lorenzo since the 250's. If the Factories decide to move to the 1000's instead of remaining on the 800's Lorenzo will be in the same position he is right now.. Favored for the Championship. Lorenzo is just that fast.. he is faster than Nicky, Spies, Pedrosa and everyone else in the paddock except for Casey and Vale. Nicky's style is vulnerable always to an inside line. He is just where he would be if Motogp returned to 1000 cc.. BEHIND Rossi, Lorenzo,Pedrosa and Stoner.





People hate Predrosa.. I don't quite know why. He is FAST. Very very fast.. he was fast out of the gate on the 1000cc and 800cc. He is in the top 4 riders of the world.

I saw the dice btw he and Lorenzo as as a good fight. He does have race craft. Give the man credit. No one outside of 4 people in the world may be able to beat him on 2 wheels.

Even Hayden had to give him his props on his pole position and race pace. Pedrosa put a unstable bike on the pole and podium. Dovi was nowhere to be found. Where were the other Hondas...





I don't necessarily like Puig but he is respected for his grooming of young talent. He seems a bit of a A$$ but how many of us really know the man personally enough to make that call accurately?

100% speculation, just like Lex at this point. With all do respect, saying Lorenzo is faster than ur list without mentioning hes on by far the best package is a bit simple. I seriously doubt Lorenzo would hav accomplished what he has so far had he spent his top class career on a Ducati; what do u think? U think he would hav challenged for wins? So uv been watching a few years but dont know why Dani is disliked?!? Amazing. And ur take on Puig, he "seems a bit of a ..."? Really? I find this part most interesting. Frankly friend, ur doing ur speculation no favors.
<
 
100% speculation, just like Lex at this point. With all do respect, saying Lorenzo is faster than ur list without mentioning hes on by far the best package is a bit simple. I seriously doubt Lorenzo would hav accomplished what he has so far had he spent his top class career on a Ducati; what do u think? U think he would hav challenged for wins? So uv been watching a few years but dont know why Dani is disliked?!? Amazing. And ur take on Puig, he "seems a bit of a ..."? Really? I find this part most interesting. Frankly friend, ur doing ur speculation no favors.
<



I'm actually telling people not to speculate for once b/c the rules changes could completely change the sport. The rules are highly unpredictable at this point.
 
That's all well and good, but none of us actually know whether or not Lorenzo can adjust to point and shoot.



It is certainly possible Lorenzo could be just as good if they move to 1000cc b/c adding displacement without adding any fuel may end up creating the exact same cornerspeed game. However, if MotoGP goes a bit point and shoot as a result of the 1000cc regulations, Lorenzo will have to adapt his style. The same can be said for Pedrosa who never really learned to ride point and shoot, instead, Michelin made him a special spec front tire (something Rossi still ....... about to this day). MotoGP is a control tire now so it remains to be seen if Pedrosa can adjust. Pedrosa ain't exactly great at dropping the anchors either.



All of the 250 kids who've joined since the 800cc formula will have to learn to ride a new machine if 1000cc engines drastically change the fastest racing line. It doesn't have anything to do with hating on anyone, it's just a fact.



Come on.. Stoner was a 250 kid. I think he Pointed and shot with the best of them..

Seriously Lorenzo won't be able to ride a 1000cc? Okay.... The 990 era should have been ruled by WSBK guys..



Hodson, Haga, Xaus, Edwards, Bayliss all were dominating....No.. not really..



List of 500cc/250cc guys that did fairly well on the 1000

Barros, Biaggi, Rossi, Melandri,Gibernau,

Elias won on a 1000cc.



Lorenzo is just as talented and able to adapt as Stoner, Rossi etc.





We will see
 
I'm actually telling people not to speculate for once b/c the rules changes could completely change the sport. The rules are highly unpredictable at this point.

U said "Lorenzo could be done for" right? Thats pretty 'speculative' buddy.
<
 
Also Simoncelli seemed to adjust pretty well to an 1000cc WSBK during his wild card race.

I believe he podium-ed without ever setting foot on the Aprilia before. I definitely would rate Lorenzo's talent above Simoncelli..



Trust me Lorenzo would be there..
 
100% speculation, just like Lex at this point. With all do respect, saying Lorenzo is faster than ur list without mentioning hes on by far the best package is a bit simple. I seriously doubt Lorenzo would hav accomplished what he has so far had he spent his top class career on a Ducati; what do u think? U think he would hav challenged for wins? So uv been watching a few years but dont know why Dani is disliked?!? Amazing. And ur take on Puig, he "seems a bit of a ..."? Really? I find this part most interesting. Frankly friend, ur doing ur speculation no favors.
<



Come on Jumkie.. No speculation here..

Do you think Rossi would have accomplished his achievements on a Ducati? A Suzuki? No one questions that Rossi has always been on top equipment. His talent is beyond question. So I guess you both are saying that Lorenzo is not the real deal? Hayden spent how many years on the best bike in the paddock? Edwards?



You brought up Rossi and the best package, let's let Rossi be the measure: Lorenzo on the same bike as Rossi how does he measure?

Answer: He pushed the GOAT to the absolute limit. Not to bad..





Yes.. I've been around in this forum for a while. Dani is not liked here.. "his personality is wood", he doesn't smile, he is short etc... Really.. Wow..

Casey's personality and several others is not the greatest.. Big deal.. These guys race.. It's not a congeniality contest.



Puig..who knows the guy.. We on the sideline don't like how he operates. He knows how to motivate his Riders and he fights for them.



There has been Much speculation in here about Puig. he's a ........., a tyrant, a dictator etc. How do we know this?



Speculation
 
Yes.. I've been around in this forum for a while. Dani is not liked here.. "his personality is wood", he doesn't smile, he is short etc... Really.. Wow..

Casey's personality and several others is not the greatest.. Big deal.. These guys race.. It's not a congeniality contest.



Puig..who knows the guy.. We on the sideline don't like how he operates. He knows how to motivate his Riders and he fights for them.



There has been Much speculation in here about Puig. he's a ........., a tyrant, a dictator etc. How do we know this?



Speculation

That Pedrosa doesn't smile isn't our issue, and screw the fact that he's got the personality of a hatstand and a charisma bypass to boot. I take issue with the manner in which he criticised his teammate over a his lack of development skills, concerning an abortion of a bike that was built for him in the first place and imposed on others. I take issue with the fact that he took his teammate out when he was on the cusp of beating the greatest motorcycle racer in the history of the sport to a World Championship in 2006, and dismissively waved his hand as he trudged off in the other direction without even checking on the welfare of his fellow rider. I take issue with the way he stormed out of a three day tyre test for Michelin after a day while his team mate was putting in more miles than the Space Shuttle, and I also take issue with the spineless way in which he is dominated by his manager.



Which leads me to the fact that we have exhaustively debated Puig on this forum already. There are endless testimonies to the mans nasty character. Dead simple, read Ring of Fire for a summary of these, from those riders that have been through his ranks. I'd also like to repeat on here what I said earlier. Feeding incorrect timing on a pit board at Sachsenring cost Dani the race, his title bid in 2008, and it could have, God forbid, cost him his life. - we saw him do this yet again at Jerez today.The sooner that twisted .... is finally curtailed by Dorna, IRTA and HRC the better. Pedrosa should take a leaf out of Jorge's book and kick him into touch, just as Lorenzo did to the similarly deranged Amatrian.
 
That Pedrosa doesn't smile isn't our issue, and screw the fact that he's got the personality of a hatstand and a charisma bypass to boot. I take issue with the manner in which he criticised his teammate over a his lack of development skills, concerning an abortion of a bike that was built for him in the first place and imposed on others. I take issue with the fact that he took his teammate out when he was on the cusp of beating the greatest motorcycle racer in the history of the sport to a World Championship in 2006, and dismissively waved his hand as he trudged off in the other direction without even checking on the welfare of his fellow rider. I take issue with the way he stormed out of a three day tyre test for Michelin after a day while his team mate was putting in more miles than the Space Shuttle, and I also take issue with the spineless way in which he is dominated by his manager.



Which leads me to the fact that we have exhaustively debated Puig on this forum already. There are endless testimonies to the mans nasty character. Dead simple, read Ring of Fire for a summary of these, from those riders that have been through his ranks. I'd also like to repeat on here what I said earlier. Feeding incorrect timing on a pit board at Sachsenring cost Dani the race, his title bid in 2008, and it could have, God forbid, cost him his life. - we saw him do this yet again at Jerez today.The sooner that twisted .... is finally curtailed by Dorna, IRTA and HRC the better. Pedrosa should take a leaf out of Jorge's book and kick him into touch, just as Lorenzo did to the similarly deranged Amatrian.



Arrabbi

I agree with all of the points you make about Pedrosa being a spoiled brat in his attitude and treatment of Hayden during 2006 season. If you search my comments during the time I am right there with my criticism. I don't hate the guy. He is not a rider I pull for but I don't hate him. I respect his Talent..because... he is Talented.



Puig feeding Pedrosa faulty info.. I understand where everyone is coming from but you have to beg the question..is this new? Do we really think noone in all these years haven't said anything to Pedrosa? do we really think Pedrosa doesn't know/hasn't look at film of the races and sees that this has happened?



Puig/Pedrosa have a working relationship.. Puig knows his rider/His rider knows his manager..

If Pedrosa likes the arrangement..I love it..



We can call the shots as to what Pedrosa should or shouldn't do but really.. it's his choice. He keeps Puig. He is comfortable with the situ and wants the arrangement to continue.
 
bit of a boring race till the last few laps... So how many of you got SCREWED by The Speed Channel?
<




Congrats to Lorenzo, Pedro, and Rossi..

Happy for Nick
<


Sucked for Spies
<


Adriana is smoking hot.
 
My initial post and comments were about Lorenzo and the general talent of the riders..



I am not defending Puig/Pedrosa. I respect that their team has multiple championships and has been successful. Some people smile and play to the camera while pouting/pushing to get what they want. Others are nasty to those that they can be..not that they should but that is life.



As I see it no matter what type of format is put out. Lorenzo is just that good and will be at the top of the class.

The Aliens would still be the Aliens.

The talent of the Motogp Class:



Rossi, Lorenzo, Casey, Pedrosa There is a shuffle/scrap for the rest of the places
 
My initial post and comments were about Lorenzo and the general talent..

Duc, im not sure wher u got that i dont think Lorenzo is the real deal, he certainly is, and i pull for the guy. The comment was made by ur disagreement regarding Lexs speculation, ur response was frankly more speculation. My point was that we hav a tendency of talking about these guys bit without the meaninful insight into their equipment. For example i consider Loris an "alien" but u wouldnt know it unless u saw the guy in a top ride. He was in 06, since then has languished. Basicall what im saying is ur so convinced that Lorenzo is an "alien" which i agree, but i doubt he would hav been considered by most if he too would hav languished in a sub par ride. I responded to u bcuz u said Hayden is back to his form, as u put it "BEHIND" Rossi. Well considering hes on a bike that is still inferior to the factory Yamaha, i'd say ther was not much insight in ur implication; which i find similar to ur Lorenzo point (in reverse). U get what im saying buddy?



As far as the Pedro/Puig debate, really ther is NO debate.
 
Come on Jumkie.. No speculation here..

Do you think Rossi would have accomplished his achievements on a Ducati? A Suzuki? No one questions that Rossi has always been on top equipment. His talent is beyond question. So I guess you both are saying that Lorenzo is not the real deal? Hayden spent how many years on the best bike in the paddock? Edwards?



You brought up Rossi and the best package, let's let Rossi be the measure: Lorenzo on the same bike as Rossi how does he measure?

Answer: He pushed the GOAT to the absolute limit. Not to bad..





Yes.. I've been around in this forum for a while. Dani is not liked here.. "his personality is wood", he doesn't smile, he is short etc... Really.. Wow..

Casey's personality and several others is not the greatest.. Big deal.. These guys race.. It's not a congeniality contest.



Puig..who knows the guy.. We on the sideline don't like how he operates. He knows how to motivate his Riders and he fights for them.



There has been Much speculation in here about Puig. he's a ........., a tyrant, a dictator etc. How do we know this?



Speculation



Rossi always on top equipment? Are you sure? Rossi left Honda after the 2003 season to join Yamaha for the 2004 season. Critics of Rossi challenged his talent and felt he wouldnt win a championship in 2004 because Yamaha wasnt top equipment. Rossi, Burgess and Yamaha quickly went to work and turned the M1 into a better machine. Year after year, the development of the M1 from Yamaha, Rossi and Burgess made the M1 into top equipment.



Go Lorenzo!!!
 
U said "Lorenzo could be done for" right? Thats pretty 'speculative' buddy.
<



Just read with context.



Let me get you up to speed. I demonstrated the futility of speculation by mentioning the possible formula change. Duc took my hypothetical remarks about uncertainty as a literal knock on Lorenzo. I didn't care to have a Lorenzo conversation only to reinforce that Lorenzo still has to prove himself (uncertainty of the future). Then you included me in a side conversation you were having with Duc999 about Lorenzo b/c you thought I was also speculating.



I'm not.



If I'm not speculating, I don't like for my remarks to be taken as speculation b/c the accuracy of my speculations is paramount to me.
<
 
Whats up LF? How u doing bro.



True, the M1 needed help, and though this topic has been debated heavily, i'm not convinced it was crap. It wasnt the "best" but it was a close 2nd best. We r not talking about them turning a Harley into the space shuttle (as most revisionist would hav us believe). Rossi/Burgess made the difference, i agree there.
<
 
Whats up LF? How u do bro.



True, the M1 need help, and though this topic has been debated heavily, i'm not convinced it was crap. It wasnt the "best" but it was a close 2nd best. We r not talking about them turning a Harley into the space shuttle.
<



dude go back and check out MotoGP 2002-2004 then come back
<
 
Yes i know Stoner/Ducati aren't great here so i'm not gonna make any conclusions yet, but i'm definitely wondering. He got beaten by Nicky, that is far from ideal.

My working hypothesis is that nicky is fast rather than that stoner is slow, and given a year on a team equipped with a bike which is at least potentially good where his input is acted upon, neither of which appeared to be the case in 2007 and 2008, hayden is getting towards being as fast as you would expect the 2006 world champion to be.



Stoner is likely having to adapt his riding style to a bike which handles differently, and at this stage it is not clear whether he can do so, but other factors also may be operative. If I recall his relative pace is similar to what it was in 2007 at jerez, and as others have said it is a track he doesn't like anyway. The bike itself would not appear to be fully sorted in terms of front turn-in particularly given nicky's crash by a similar mechanism, and the rumoured loss of one of only 6 engines even before the start of the second race of the season may have constrained him in terms of pushing the limits in this race even if the new engine wasn't turned down; he didn't look even as fast as in fp1 for the rest of the week-end. He was actually fairly fast towards the end of the race, except for the last lap, where he ( or ducati before the race ) may have decided trying to chase down hayden was not a good idea. Is he behind the eight ball because of his early season crashes? Yes, it would have been a good idea not to crash, particularly if doing so has cost him an engine.



Whether valentino was affected by injury, did not achieve a good set-up or whatever, this is lorenzo's and pedrosa's home track where they are always fast, and I would not be awarding the championship to jorge just yet.
 
dude go back and check out MotoGP 2002-2004 then come back
<

R u still at the bar? Had a few i see.
<




i hear u bro, but fact is modern MotoGP is a story of two factories: Yamaha vs Honda; the rest for intents & purposes just sub par psuedo-privateer efforts. Look at the history again bro. Ull see that during those years u mention, Yamaha was 2nd, only to the Rossi/Honda combo (which naturally skews the superficial appearance that Yamaha was that far behind).
 
R u still at the bar? Had a few i see.
<




i hear u bro, but fact is moder MotoGP is a story of two factories: Yamaha vs Honda; the rest for intents & purposes just sub par psuedo-privateer efforts. Look at the history again bro. Ull see that during those years u mention, Yamaha was 2nd, only to the Rossi/Honda (which naturally skews the superficial appearance that Yamaha was that far behind).



yeah 2nd to like 6 hondas
<
 
Duc, im not sure wher u got that i dont think Lorenzo is the real deal, he certainly is, and i pull for the guy. The comment was made by ur disagreement regarding Lexs speculation, ur response was frankly more speculation. My point was that we hav a tendency of talking about these guys bit without the meaninful insight into their equipment. For example i consider Loris an "alien" but u wouldnt know it unless u saw the guy in a top ride. He was in 06, since then has languished. Basicall what im saying is ur so convinced that Lorenzo is an "alien" which i agree, but i doubt he would hav been considered by most if he too would hav languished in a sub par ride. I responded to u bcuz u said Hayden is back to his form, as u put it "BEHIND" Rossi. Well considering hes on a bike that is still inferior to the factory Yamaha, i'd say ther was not much insight in ur implication; which i find similar to ur Lorenzo point (in reverse). U get what im saying buddy?



As far as the Pedro/Puig debate, really ther is NO debate.



Come on Jum. Speculation...It''s speculation that Loris is an Alien. He did well in '06..he was on a top ride.. He did not do well in '07 in the same factory team. His younger Alien teammate shocked the world..I do believe Capirex had more time in the factory team and more development input. Casey came in and rode the hell out of the bike. don't get me wrong.. i like Capirex. I have a couple Capirex replica helmets. But those are the facts.



Would Jorge languish on a sub par ride..Suzuki-Yes. Honda..No..(Speculation
<
here) but given Casey's and Dovi's performance on the LCR/Satellite Honda.. I don't think there is any doubt that Lorenzo's talent would shine.





"Well considering hes on a bike that is still inferior to the factory Yamaha, i'd say ther was not much insight in ur implication; which i find similar to ur Lorenzo point (in reverse). U get what im saying buddy? "



I don't get what you are saying:

Insight (Two guys, Same teams ..Results-Hayden behind Rossi)



2003 Repsol Honda

Rossi was teammate with: Hayden



Rossi: 9Wins,5 P2's, 2P3's

Hayden: 2 P3's (2 Podiums) 5th in the Championship

The following Year Rossi left Repsol. Hayden Remained. Hayden's 2nd Year @ Repsol Honda 8th overall with two P3's



2008 Fiat Yamaha

Rossi teamed with Lorenzo

Rossi We know what he did...

Lorenzo: 1 Win, 3 P2's, 2P3's (6podiums) 4th in the Championship..

Lorenzo's 2nd Year Fiat Yamaha - 2nd in the Championship..4 wins,5 P2's,3 P3's.





Puig/Pedrosa: No debate on them being A$$'s to Hayden and Pouty in the Paddock..

Hell Ducati did Capirex/Bayliss Wrong.. really wrong... I am none to happy about it but..there isn't to much out cry about that.

Honda Gave CEII the raw deal.....



Everything is speculation unless you give the entire grid a Rossi spec yamaha M1 for a season
 
Ok ok, don't want to rehash the 'magical Yamaha switch' nor the this or that about speculations on Lorenzo post 2011, etc. So i'll drop it.



On to the topic, I've now read a few mention Stoner's woes. Lets put it into perspective shall we. Honestly, Arabbi summarized it well enough (as usual), I'll add that Stoner's average finish at Jerez coming into this race was 6th position. So coming 5th is about right for this venue. Considering that all the "aliens" were on point, he did well enough and nobody should be dialing 911 that he's in cardiac arrest just yet. Too much was made of his Qatar mistake, it happens at this level, les we forget it happened to the infaliable Rossi at Indy, we weren't saying he was done right? Dude will bounce back. Having said that, I do agree that it will weigh a bit on his mind, but that will only be until he gets a win which nobody is denying will come. Once that happens, it will do wonders for his confidence, after all, he is just human.



Let me put it this way, if we are to treat his 5th place with so much scrutiny, are we to also say Rossi will have difficulty mentally dealing with Lorenzo's win today? After all, didn't Rossi add pressure to that situation by announcing to the world his discontent with Yamaha having signed Lorenzo and the two #1 status strategy? Lorenzo leads the points now, this should set a tone that Rossi is none to happy with right? Is Rossi lessor for it? Does this sound a bit overboard? Well, implying Stoner is toast does also to me. Dude had a bad corner at Qatar, it happens. Dude came about his average showing at Jerez. Sure, getting beat by Nicky is a big deal I admit that (much to my joy), but Stoner is still in good hands.



Oh, and I forgot to mention, Rossi's 3rd place today shows that the man knows how to win titles and is smart. He rode for valuable points as his pace called for...I've heard that characterized as "cruising" in my vague memory of past seasons.
<
<
 

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top