Race One 2019 - Losail Raceway - Doha, Qatar

18tjettagrl said:

Won't even let us login. Kind of starting to really suck now!!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Their website is rubbish along with their app. The app appears to only work on older platform. It only worked the older of my two Sony Android XBR television. Does not work on my Samsung S8+

gui22a said:

https://twitter.com/denkmit/status/1104815443318059008

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And the sh!t could hit the fan> https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ducati-under-investigation-over-winglet-complaint/4350438/

gui22a said:

But MM has always been the real deal, I don't get into this theory of "this year he is already good in Qatar, let alone the rest... bla bla", last year he had trouble and still fought with Dovi until last meters, indeed he got second place by 0.027, this year by 0.023...

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He still walked with the championship last year though..

What you say is correct, i think what people mean and certainly what i meant is that Dovi will become a serious contender or a favourite when Duc is miles ahead of Honda, as you said MM is on another level.
So I think it's pretty much the fact that they were so close in Qatar, that we are getting deja vus from last year.

Note: I'm not saying it was his easiest title, but when you look in retrospective, it's still 80 points apart with MM just playing around in the last three races. personally I was confident he would grab the title even in the mid season.

I had constant problems with my Videopass last year so I didn't bother renewing it for this season, I'll just stick to the highlights show on Quest on a Monday night.

I watched the Indy Car race instead.

Great race. Looks like HRC have improved - but not vastly so. Dovi's bike was so planted and Marquez was much more frequently out-of-shape.

Love how totally unflappable Dovi is. Not the least bit discouraged when getting passed by Marquez, which pretty apparently - was a good thing in that it gifted him the knowledge of how badly Marquez's rear end was moving around. Marquez on-the-other-hand, sat behind Dovi for all those laps and couldn't find a ..... in his armor.

Crutchlow over the last season has finally really grown on me. It helps that he's become a much more seasoned and mature rider. Good on him for that podium.

Yamaha it would seem - have not "found" anything new since last year.

Rossi, old as he is, continues to exhibit the necessary race craft and tactical skills to take up a lot of the slack due to his age and Yamaha's lack of improvement.

Rins has got big potential. Here's hoping he realizes it a few times this year.

Vinales - same ole - same ole.

Can't wait to see what Quataro can do when not starting from pit lane.

evo9 said:

Problem for Ducati they have always exploited the rules in both SBK & Motogp.

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Best tweet I have ever read from David Emmet (moto matters)

"I disagree. The rules are clear. If other factories can't read the rules, that's their problem.

The key to any rulebook is not what is written, but what is not written. Those are the gaps which give the factories freedom"

Could not agree more.

But the "problem" is Ducati always working around the rulez...

No my friend, that is called trying to innovate, that's the purpose of prototype racing. For me, the problem is Honda always wanting to win the game using money power.

Let's remeber another case. When MM joined the premier class, he get direct access in the factory Honda, despite the rules not allowing that a year before. But Honda is Honda, and tired of losing to Yamaha champion duo (46 & 99), they changed the rules. You know, if you can't win, change the rules of the game.

This is Honda. I'm not complaining about Honda, as I make my money entirely from their off-road bikes, but one appointing Ducati as cheating the rules is hilarious.

Notice how Yamaha isn't one of the factories complaining. They seem the potential maybe for their own version.

evo9 said:

History has taught them & us when they piss Honda off they lose.

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Yeah, because when Honda is pissed off, they find a way to change the rules through Dorna. You know, the japanese factory bosses are super, super honest, so, in order to not infringe any rule, they make the rule fit their will. Much more elegant.

evo9 said:

If HRC was to employ all those little trickery bits they would be in big trouble.

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HRC is never in trouble with the rulebook because as I said, they are the ones who write it anytime they want. Keep the rules in check.

evo9 said:

They really need to learn how to make a proper bike. They won this race but got schooled by Suzuki on how a bike works in a corner.

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LoL... what? It seems to many people of the paddock that the Ducati is just a proper bike. Circuits and tracks are not made only of curves and corners. Racing is a compromise. Don't think for a second that you can just find a magical solution to make a bike turn, brake, get into the corner, save tire, accelerates, and keep super-speedy in the corner, all perfect at the same time in any circuit.

Suzuki's strength is mid-corner speed, we know that, but at the expense of another things. For example, to have more speed in straight they need more HP's, and the extra power will cause another problems in the bike as tire consumption, turning, engine braking, corner entry, etc. This is not Playstation my friend... Remember, real racing is a short blanket, a compromisse. There is no such thing like "best bike on the grid", since it depends on the circuit characteristics, the rider style, and so on. It could be named "most balanced bike on the grid" but never the "best".

I saw a lot of people talking about new Honda engine, but mark my words: it's just a different engine, more approached to the former screamer, some kind of intermediate. You can hear the engine, it's not the same firing order. That brings more revs and more speed at straight, but will cause more threats to traction and for tire consumption.

From an interview w Dovi on Motosport.com

"We finished the test with a really bad feeling with the bike," he admitted. "We wanted to test a lot of things during the tests in Malaysia and here, but in the end we understood it didn’t work in this track.

"We wanted to study a lot during the week before the race, and it was right. I’m so happy with the way we worked in this practice [this weekend], we improved a lot our speed, and this is what we need to save the tyre and be on top in the race."

He added: "I don’t know what we can expect for the race, but I’m so happy for the first row. I really didn’t expect to have that speed, and I’m happy about the work we did.

"I’m happy in the way I approached the weekend, because the speed wasn’t there. I stayed calm, worked, [the team and I] know very well each other, that helps a lot to be in this situation now."

While many believed Dovizioso's muted test pace was a result of the him not showing his hand, the Italian insisted that the solutions Ducati had tried out in Qatar testing simply did not work as hoped.

"I think the characteristics of this track are quite strange," he continued. "Also it’s not the best track to make a lot of tests, because every day is a different story – humidity, wind, sand. It’s very difficult.

evo9 said:

Problem for Ducati they have always exploited the rules in both SBK & Motogp. History has taught them & us when they piss Honda off they lose. If HRC was to employ all those little trickery bits they would be in big trouble. Remember the RC51!!! As it stands with all the tricks they can throw on the bike they can barely get ahead of the RCV. They really need to learn how to make a proper bike. They won this race but got schooled by Suzuki on how a bike works in a corner.


As for yamaha, sure they won't complain. It will be on their mule in Argentina.



.

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No sympathy for Honda, who have often had their way in motogp, with the whole 800 formula reputedly their idea because of fit with their engineering philosophy, while Ducati when they were tiny Ducati Corse, pretty much a backyard operation, had rules changed against them. Different than WSBK, where they definitely benefited from favourable treatment, particularly when the fabulous flying Flammini brothers were running the show.

I am not sure how committed VW/Audi are to Ducati and GP bike racing, probably less than Honda are, but they are a much bigger company than Honda, and could obviously outspend them if they chose, although Honda still doubtless have the advantage as far as bike related engineering resources go.

The thing with Ducati is that yes they are a small company compared to the Japanese but ever since they returned to GP racing in 2003 they've had the backing of Phillip Morris International who are a massive corporation so while they may lack the overall manpower that Honda have they aren't short of money, I bet they have a bigger racing budget than Suzuki and Yamaha do given that they run factory teams in MotoGP, SBK and provide Ducati Corse technicians to PBM in BSB.

gui22a said:

....
No my friend, that is called trying to innovate, that's the purpose of prototype racing. For me, the problem is Honda always wanting to win the game using money power........... .

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gui22a said:

Yeah, because when Honda is pissed off, they find a way to change the rules through Dorna. You know, the japanese factory bosses are super, super honest, so, in order to not infringe any rule, they make the rule fit their will. Much more elegant.......

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While I fully agreed that prototype should be about innovation, I completely disagree with your Honda bashing.

First off, and a BIG FIRST, Honda did NOT want the ECU spec. So, right there, your argument is shot to hell. Second, if it was all about Honda money, then Honda would be the ones pushing the questionable rules envelope, not the other way around. There is more than one team that votes for the rules. It isn't run by Honda.

Honda and Yamaha VOTED to give Ducati concessions for YEARS, so Ducati could be more competitive. If Honda was like you say, they would have told Ducati to ....-themselves, and there would be no Ducati in Motof'ingGP - period.

Ducati makes an outstanding engine. Their MotoGP bike is plenty good enough without pushing the rules. They just need to listen to the damn riders and get the s.o.b. to turn easier, then they may dominate like they did with Stoner. However, they still don't have Marquez. Best.

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Rins screwed up my perfect prediction and I will never forgive him. Stupid Suzuki trying to be a "contender". pfft. Amazing that VR is still better than MV, even on a bad day. Hang in for Danilo Petrucci, he is going to show this stuff this year. His team did not give him what he needed. You could see it on his face.

Yeah - Cal. Who else picked that one, hey? Some very fast boys out there mixing it up without incidents. It is going to be another teeth clenching year, mates. :dance:

Iamapony said:

While I fully agreed that prototype should be about innovation, I completely disagree with your Honda bashing.

First off, and a BIG FIRST, Honda did NOT want the ECU spec. So, right there, your argument is shot to hell. Second, if it was all about Honda money, then Honda would be the ones pushing the questionable rules envelope, not the other way around. There is more than one team that votes for the rules. It isn't run by Honda.

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LoL, but Ducati did not want the spec ECU too. BTW, no factory wants it. Don't get your point here.

Iamapony said:

Honda and Yamaha VOTED to give Ducati concessions for YEARS, so Ducati could be more competitive. If Honda was like you say, they would have told Ducati to ....-themselves, and there would be no Ducati in Motof'ingGP - period.

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It's the minimum they should do after magnetizing the rules around them. They voted because Ducati was going to leave the series, joining Kawasaki and Suzuki. What would remain? MotoGP was going to vanish like F1.

Iamapony said:

Ducati makes an outstanding engine. Their MotoGP is plenty good enough without pushing the rules. They just need to listen to the damn riders and get the s.o.b. to turn easier, then they may dominate like they did with Stoner. However, they still don't have Marquez. Best.

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ah, could not realize soon... another sofa analyst... yeah, they have a good engine, a nice bike, so now they just need to hear the riders, make the bike turn and vouala, they will win all races. aaa... gimme a break fella.

gui22a said:

LoL, but Ducati did not want the spec ECU too. BTW, no factory wants it. Don't get your point here.



It's the minimum they should do after magnetizing the rules around them. They voted because Ducati was going to leave the series, joining Kawasaki and Suzuki. What would remain? MotoGP was going to vanish like F1.



ah, could not realize soon... another sofa analyst... yeah, they have a good engine, a nice bike, so now they just need to hear the riders, make the bike turn and vouala, they will win all races. aaa... gimme a break fella.

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My understanding is that the the "spec" ECU, while perhaps less manipulable is no different than the Magnetti Marelli that Ducati had been working with for years - so no skin of their nose at all.

If the bike doesn't turn as well as the Honda or Suzuki - it ain't because they're not listening to the riders. It's because they
are limited by the parameters of the L-4 engine design. It's taken years to develop work-arounds and if Dovi's results the last
few seasons are any indication, they've done pretty well. I'd still love to see what Stoner could do on the current iteration
and hear his comparison to the Ducs he rode in his time. They've come light years.

Watching those numerous last lap duels between Dovi and Marquez these last few seasons have been major highlights
in a decade of great racing. At this point - any perceived deficiency is not with the bike, it's the riders. People seem to
think that it's the bike that isn't winning the race, but as Dovi has evidenced, it's the rider. Look at how few races have
been won on the Honda by anyone other than Marquez.

Keshav said:

My understanding is that the the "spec" ECU, while perhaps less manipulable is no different than the Magnetti Marelli that Ducati had been working with for years - so no skin of their nose at all.

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It is the same hardware but software was very, very different for sure.

Keshav said:

If the bike doesn't turn as well as the Honda or Suzuki - it ain't because they're not listening to the riders. It's because they
are limited by the parameters of the L-4 engine design. It's taken years to develop work-arounds and if Dovi's results the last
few seasons are any indication, they've done pretty well. I'd still love to see what Stoner could do on the current iteration
and hear his comparison to the Ducs he rode in his time. They've come light years.

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I agree, I was being ironic with him.

Since as all of you are saying no sympathy for Honda. Why when they were innovating with their bespoke electronics it was cheating to you? They out engineer ktm in moto3 with their engine, you all call it cheating! You cant have it both both ways.

Dorka introduce the spec "dummy" ecu to so call reel in cost and level the playing field. This was done to get ducati closer the Honda & yamaha. HRC had to go out & higher a bunch of dumb down magneti marelli techs to lower their level to match ducati. While yamaha failed to do just that. I've always believe this spec ecu was introduce to help EU brands at the expense of the Japanese.

michaelm said:

No sympathy for Honda, who have often had their way in motogp, with the whole 800 formula reputedly their idea because of fit with their engineering philosophy, while Ducati when they were tiny Ducati Corse, pretty much a backyard operation, had rules changed against them. Different than WSBK, where they definitely benefited from favourable treatment, particularly when the fabulous flying Flammini brothers were running the show.

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The spec ecu was done for who again?

michaelm said:

I am not sure how committed VW/Audi are to Ducati and GP bike racing, probably less than Honda are, but they are a much bigger company than Honda, and could obviously outspend them if they chose, although Honda still doubtless have the advantage as far as bike related engineering resources go.

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How many times have Ducati changed ownership in comparison to Honda? The Volkswagen group is still reeling from Diesel gate expense. Tons of junk cars are parked globally in remote lots waiting to be dispose of. So should they spend money on racing or deal with their environmental cleanup? Just last year there was talks about selling Ducati.

gui22a said:

Yeah, because when Honda is pissed off, they find a way to change the rules through Dorna. You know, the japanese factory bosses are super, super honest, so, in order to not infringe any rule, they make the rule fit their will. Much more elegant.



HRC is never in trouble with the rulebook because as I said, they are the ones who write it anytime they want. Keep the rules in check.



LoL... what? It seems to many people of the paddock that the Ducati is just a proper bike. Circuits and tracks are not made only of curves and corners. Racing is a compromise. Don't think for a second that you can just find a magical solution to make a bike turn, brake, get into the corner, save tire, accelerates, and keep super-speedy in the corner, all perfect at the same time in any circuit.

Suzuki's strength is mid-corner speed, we know that, but at the expense of another things. For example, to have more speed in straight they need more HP's, and the extra power will cause another problems in the bike as tire consumption, turning, engine braking, corner entry, etc. This is not Playstation my friend... Remember, real racing is a short blanket, a compromisse. There is no such thing like "best bike on the grid", since it depends on the circuit characteristics, the rider style, and so on. It could be named "most balanced bike on the grid" but never the "best".

I saw a lot of people talking about new Honda engine, but mark my words: it's just a different engine, more approached to the former screamer, some kind of intermediate. You can hear the engine, it's not the same firing order. That brings more revs and more speed at straight, but will cause more threats to traction and for tire consumption.

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LOL really? Everything goes thru stages of development. Suzuki will find the right combination of speed and power. HRC have used both big bang & screamer. Is it a problem to alternate from one to the other? How long now has it been since ducati have had this problem to turn in corners? Look at the weld quality on their bike in comparison to the Japanese. Lipstick on a pig does not make it anything more than a pig. I stand by my comment, they need to learn how to make a proper bike. They have gotten better over the years. But there is still room for improvement. If they ever mange to get that bike to turn, the Japanese will have something to worry about. At the moment they dont.

evo9 said:

Since as all of you are saying no sympathy for Honda. Why when they were innovating with their bespoke electronics it was cheating to you? They out engineer ktm in moto3 with their engine, you all call it cheating! You cant have it both both ways.

Dorka introduce the spec "dummy" ecu to so call reel in cost and level the playing field. This was done to get ducati closer the Honda & yamaha. HRC had to go out & higher a bunch of dumb down magneti marelli techs to lower their level to match ducati. While yamaha failed to do just that. I've always believe this spec ecu was introduce to help EU brands at the expense of the Japanese.

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Disagree. Nobody here ever implied Honda was "cheating". The general sentiment was that they were simply out-spending everybody. There are good points on both sides of the arguments for and against spec electronics. Everybody wants to see innovation; conversely - from the human point of interest - people want mechanical parity that allows the most talented riders to shine. For me - I love the equipment, but years from now - I won't be talking much to my grandkids about a particular machine - near as much as I will be talking about the great riders.

Personally - I could give a .... whether EU companies or Japanese companies per se dominate. It just gets boring when it's only one company with all the advantages. Especially when longtime competitors like Suzuki and Kawasaki who've created bikes that took great riders to championships - drop out of the series because they've been outspent. Variety as the saying goes is the spice of life. How ....... great is it to see a Honda, a Suzuki, a Yamaha a Ducati etc all potentially vying for the podium throughout the race? This kind of parity is making for many more races decided in the last moments of the race. I loved watching Stoner run away on the ...... Ducati and was blown away when Marquez dominated the way he did because they were phenoms - but after a while, if there's no battles, no trading paint, it's ....... boring.

Again, from the human point of view - I'm much more taken with innovation that is the direct product of human intelligence and imaginative thinking, than innovation that is the product of armies of lab-coated dorks programming football size fields of supercomputers for the sake of shaving off three thousandths of a second a lap.

There are no victims here. When I watch races like today's I feel like I've won the lottery.