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Preziosi: Rossi is the greatest rider of all time

Well as long as its not half & half like 2003, that was a joke.



I agree with 99% of what ya said Jum apart from 1 thing - you implied (Tell me if i am wrong here) that Rossi has always had the best equipment, he certainly didnt in 2004, not sure about the 2 years after that. I think its his ability to understand the technical side of the bike unlike Lorenzo who just says give me the keys ...... & disappears in raw of engine revs. This is probably why what he says about bikes is listened to perhaps more than others.



Like you said i hope people see Nicky's true ability in the results he has produced on the fickle Ducati, he may of not had a stellar season but he has had some very good rides, some unlucky instances & if i remeber rightly the only rider other than Rossi to give a big .... you to the world champ this year!
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Kropotkin said:
By mid-season, the rule permitting 800s will be quietly dropped in a meeting of the GP Commission, once it becomes clear that everyone will have a 1000 ready to go.
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Seems I've read that Ducati will not go 1000cc per se but 9XX cc's....any inside info regarding other manufactures target for 2012?
 
Jumkie said:
Why J4rno, I'm really impressed. I don't peg you (based on other posts) to say something so rational. Kudos to you for thinking this, but I doubt you will get much agreement with other Rossi fans.



......
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Oh, thank you Sir, thank you! I'm not worthy!
laugh.gif






I understand. I didn't peg you (based on your other posts... ) to be able to recognize reason also when it does not coincide with your preconceived ideas!
tongue.gif
 
johnnyvvc said:
I think its his ability to understand the technical side of the bike unlike Lorenzo who just says give me the keys ...... & disappears in raw of engine revs. This is probably why what he says about bikes is listened to perhaps more than others.
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You mean Lorenzo who more often than not got a better setup from his M1 than Rossi could with the same equipment? Lorenzo who the bridgestone engineers turn to for feedback because of his level of mechanical sympathy.
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Jumkie said:
People are either ignorant or burry their heads in the sand (or both) when it comes to Nicky. They regularly say he's a 2nd tier rider. As of now, the rationalization is in full swing, but just consider, if the season started the day after Valencia. Nicky's curse has been to honestly compete in a dishonest series.



Check out this article.



Read the rationalization that Ducati must improve if "Rossi is to be Rossi"? What the .... does that mean? I thought Rossi was Rossi. Of course, at the moment we can rationalize that Rossi's poor showing on his maiden Ducati test was "just a test" or that his "shoulder was a major problem" (one that was NOT so major at Sepang, or any other race result for that matter where he got onto the podium, but suddenly the day after which, his limb was about to fall off?)



How fair is a competition when the riders are relegated to be top and second fiddle on a team? As much as a body of fans denies it, this predicament was so egregious to Rossi that he moved teams. Now I ask you L8, which year was Nicky the #1 rider? Which year was Nicky's word directing development to aid himself? I find it insanely outrageous for this article to state, "We must improve the bike for Rossi to be Rossi." What about, we should have been improving the bike for Nicky to be Nicky? Nicky has had a .... shake in MotoGP; they have overlooked perhaps one of the best riders in the series because he has no clout, and no national popularity of which Dorna gives a .... about (which is what directs the skewed support in this sport). Yet, we continue to point to these "aliens" (a term I always try to put in quotations because of its ........ nature). Did Rossi cease to be an "alien"? Then why must the Ducati improve if Casey showed it was a capable winning machine for him, an "alien"?



We've had peeps here say Nicky has shown .... results for years, but made no mention of a Honda designed around Pedro. I contend, putting Rossi on the 07 Honda would have looked as bad as Rossi on the GP10. Nobody would have believed it if one said it, that is until the Valencia test. Now we discover that the Ducati is "...."? Yet peeps are still willing to say, Nicky was .... on it to prove he is a 2nd tier rider. Well let me ask you, if the season would have started after Valencia, who would look like .... on the Ducati??? Could we have made a conclusion about said rider’s ability?



Do you remember when there was talk of Nicky going to Yamaha when they courted Rossi to join Stoner. I remember saying it would be a dream come true. Why, because I knew what would happen, Nicky would look like a genius on a Yamaha, and well, you know the rest. This is why I knew it wouldn't happen. Oh well. Peeps wonder why watch a series that has so much in common with WWF, well not sure, we are an irrational bunch when it comes to our passions. But make no mistake, its ....... ........ on many levels. It takes a good look without a certain perspective to see what is what in GP.
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It's very funny, you want to ignore poor results of Hayden in last TWO YEARS by comparing it to first test of Rossi?
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You must be very desperate, Why dont you compare -0- win of Hayden in these last 2 years with 10 wins of Stoner?



I think if Rossi and Duc even did their best and that was the max of their ability, they will still find ways to bring back Rossi in front. maybe a it take a bit more time than they expected.

I see a lot less denial and panic in Rossi fans for that test than i see happiness in anties.

and for someone who always defendes Stoner's seakness, you very easily dismiss the effect of Rossi's Schulder injury on his whole season.

Anyway keep hoping, maybe Rossi finishes in 15th position for the rest of his life.
 
Rossiofsky, im aware that u and others my disagree, tho i think u missed the logic in my post. Come to think of it, we could hav all gone believing that Rossi would hav been Rossi on the Duc...that is if we would hav never been given the opportunity to see otherwise. Now we hav an actual occurance to draw from. And guess what we discovered, Rossi is Rossi on a Duc. Now Duc must improve for Rossi to be Rossi...follow the logic?
 
Jumkie said:
Rossiofsky, im aware that u and others my disagree, tho i think u missed the logic in my post. Come to think of it, we could hav all gone believing that Rossi would hav been Rossi on the Duc...that is if we would hav never been given the opportunity to see otherwise. Now we hav an actual occurance to draw from. And guess what we discovered, Rossi is Rossi on a Duc. Now Duc must improve for Rossi to be Rossi...follow the logic?
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Maybe rossi sandbagged (await povols terminology lesson) to scare Ducati into spending on the 2011 bike.
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Goatboy said:
So you don't think that any of that was taken into consideration when Rossi signed for Ducati? According to Rossi he didn't go to Ducati before because of the way they did things, has that just been forgotten about?
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I don't think Rossi had many options so going to Ducati was not about the same reasons as it had been in the past when he had lots of options. Rossi backed himself into a corner when he demanded that it was him or Lorenzo. When it became clear to him that his demands did not have the same leverage as they had done at other important negotiation times in his career he had to take what he could get so to speak.



There are only 4 options on a MotoGP Grid. Yamaha, Honda, Ducati and Suzuki. Rossi killed his options at Honda after 2003. Suzuki would not have been a serious option. He had backed himself into a corner at yamaha and it would have been a serious case of eating humble pie which Rossi does not like the taste of so Ducati was his last and only option. When you have only one option in a negotiation you don't have much to bargain with.
 
Jumkie said:
Rossiofsky, im aware that u and others my disagree, tho i think u missed the logic in my post. Come to think of it, we could hav all gone believing that Rossi would hav been Rossi on the Duc...that is if we would hav never been given the opportunity to see otherwise. Now we hav an actual occurance to draw from. And guess what we discovered, Rossi is Rossi on a Duc. Now Duc must improve for Rossi to be Rossi...follow the logic?
Click to expand...



Maybe you dont find him especial anymore after the test, but i dont care at all. what do we know of their test? Nothing, for us is that he was 15th, so he is in deep $hit, but we dont know if he was happy with what he did, or if that was his max, and if not, why?

The only thing we have seen so far, is the fast adaptation of Stoner, and the rest we dont know. Did you expect a domination from Rossi? i didn't, though if he had finished at the first place i would be happy for him, and i'll know that after that there is still a long way to go before the race begins and we see the real story. I expect Rossi to win a race in the first 5 races, and if he does it sooner, it will be a bonus.
 
Mental Anarchist said:
I don't think Rossi had many options so going to Ducati was not about the same reasons as it had been in the past when he had lots of options. Rossi backed himself into a corner when he demanded that it was him or Lorenzo. When it became clear to him that his demands did not have the same leverage as they had done at other important negotiation times in his career he had to take what he could get so to speak.



There are only 4 options on a MotoGP Grid. Yamaha, Honda, Ducati and Suzuki. Rossi killed his options at Honda after 2003. Suzuki would not have been a serious option. He had backed himself into a corner at yamaha and it would have been a serious case of eating humble pie which Rossi does not like the taste of so Ducati was his last and only option. When you have only one option in a negotiation you don't have much to bargain with.
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Interesting logic
rolleyes.gif




Now explain why one of the best technical crews in MotoGP decided to follow as one man this pathetic figure of a motorcycle racer who has arrived at the end of his game and had remained with only one option.



Masochism? Pity? Sheer folly? Dementia?
blink.gif


Or, maybe, when thinking of 2012 and the return of 1000cc, Ducati looked like an interesting place to be? A place where they could help design a new bike in a way that would be impossible in a Japanese corporation?



I know I know -- only time will tell
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The machine will work, you're "thinking" too much.



He will be competitive, the bike is good, there is only minor problems and it will be solved in time for Qatar.
 
J4rn0 said:
Interesting logic
rolleyes.gif




Now explain why one of the best technical crews in MotoGP decided to follow as one man this pathetic figure of a motorcycle racer who has arrived at the end of his game and had remained with only one option.



Masochism? Pity? Sheer folly? Dementia?
blink.gif


Or, maybe, when thinking of 2012 and the return of 1000cc, Ducati looked like an interesting place to be? A place where they could help design a new bike in a way that would be impossible in a Japanese corporation?



I know I know -- only time will tell
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Click to expand...

Same reason Rossi left. After being out performed by Zeelenberg and Forcada, Brivio and Burgess had very little negotiating power and followed the meal ticket to Ducati.
 
J4rn0 said:
Interesting logic
rolleyes.gif




Now explain why one of the best technical crews in MotoGP decided to follow as one man this pathetic figure of a motorcycle racer who has arrived at the end of his game and had remained with only one option.



Masochism? Pity? Sheer folly? Dementia?
blink.gif


Or, maybe, when thinking of 2012 and the return of 1000cc, Ducati looked like an interesting place to be? A place where they could help design a new bike in a way that would be impossible in a Japanese corporation?



I know I know -- only time will tell
<
Click to expand...



Ok explain to me Rossi's options for 2011 if my summation is wrong. Be sure to explain how he could have stayed at Yamaha and saved face. Very interested to know about the solid offer he had from Honda if they were an option. But you know I am most interested to know about how Suzuki was going to pay the 10-15 million euros required for the Doctor.



After 4 or 5 years of threatening to leave MotoGP for F1, WRC and even WSBK that boy has cried wolf one to many times and this time Yamaha called him on it.



Rossi's team basically had no options either as Spies was bringing his own team and Lorenzo already has a WC winning team. Doesn't sound like any of Honda's 3 Factory riders were looking for a new crew so I would be interested in knowing your thoughts on the options that Rossi's pit crew had.
 
Mental Anarchist, on 15 November 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:

I don't think Rossi had many options so going to Ducati was not about the same reasons as it had been in the past when he had lots of options. Rossi backed himself into a corner when he demanded that it was him or Lorenzo. When it became clear to him that his demands did not have the same leverage as they had done at other important negotiation times in his career he had to take what he could get so to speak.



There are only 4 options on a MotoGP Grid. Yamaha, Honda, Ducati and Suzuki. Rossi killed his options at Honda after 2003. Suzuki would not have been a serious option. He had backed himself into a corner at yamaha and it would have been a serious case of eating humble pie which Rossi does not like the taste of so Ducati was his last and only option. When you have only one option in a negotiation you don't have much to bargain with.
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A lots changed at Honda since 2003. All the people that were there then are no longer there. Honda were interested in Rossi returning.
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Mental Anarchist said:
Ok explain to me Rossi's options for 2011 if my summation is wrong. Be sure to explain how he could have stayed at Yamaha and saved face. Very interested to know about the solid offer he had from Honda if they were an option. But you know I am most interested to know about how Suzuki was going to pay the 10-15 million euros required for the Doctor.



After 4 or 5 years of threatening to leave MotoGP for F1, WRC and even WSBK that boy has cried wolf one to many times and this time Yamaha called him on it.



Rossi's team basically had no options either as Spies was bringing his own team and Lorenzo already has a WC winning team. Doesn't sound like any of Honda's 3 Factory riders were looking for a new crew so I would be interested in knowing your thoughts on the options that Rossi's pit crew had.
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The options were pretty narrow for all top riders for 2011, not just for Rossi. Especially after Stoner's early move to Honda. Now you are fabricating this situation as a picture of desperation just for Rossi, but that's your bias.



'Losing face' is again your bias, not reality. Between Rossi and Lorenzo, the silent agreement at Yamaha was simply that the one who finished ahead this year would stay, and the other one would go. They kept saying they wanted to keep both riders, but that was just PR. They had already seen that having two top riders in the team wasn't sustainable in the long run. In that, they agreed with Rossi.

The Mugello crash gave an early answer to that question.



Even then, Rossi and crew were given an option to stay. They preferred to move to Ducati because it looked more desirable to them. Rossi was ready to move to Ducati even alone. Burgess and crew could have stayed with Spies very well -- and Spies would have been very happy. If Burgess had decided to stay, Spies' crew would have simply stayed with Tech3.



The idea that Burgess was obliged to go because Spies wanted to bring in his crew from Tech3 is funny
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chopperman said:
A lots changed at Honda since 2003. All the people that were there then are no longer there. Honda were interested in Rossi returning.
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True. But Stoner was quicker. His early move to Honda was a very good move, that left all other top riders with narrowed options.
 
It is ridiculous to say rossi hasn't been significantly injured, very credible that such an injury can cause differing degrees of impediment in different circumstances, and extremely silly to write him off after this one season particularly when his previous 2 seasons were so brilliant, let alone the rest of his career.



There has obviously been an element of ...-for -tat for some posters, but the same arguments applied erroneously to stoner and others are just as erroneous when applied to valentino. I did experience just a touch of schadenfreude when valentino obviously did find the ducati less than perfect and not all that easy to push hard whatever his other circumstances, particularly given statements by him earlier in the year that stoner wasn't pushing hard enough and strong implications from jb prior to the test that he could fix the thing before morning tea
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I also saw the workings of karma even as a stoner fan in stoner being afflicted in 2009 after being disdainful of marco melandri in 2008, one thing I cannot defend him for. Interestingly both were diagnosed as having psychiatric/psychological problems by elements of the ducati team, somewhat outside their field of expertise I would have thought, rather than their being any problem with the bike, and virtually all pramac ducati riders in the 800 era have also been found to be personally deficient



Personally I think the bike has always been at least potentially fast, particularly when shod in the original bridgestone tyres, which I tend to agree with lex have not been in evidence since qatar 2008, but requires to be ridden in a fairly narrow window requiring immense focus from the rider; stoner's smiles at the valencia test may reflect the end of the need to psyche himself up so extremely as much as anything. I am sure rossi could ride the bike in a similar window quite possibly with a greater degree of coolness, but I doubt strongly that he wants to.
 
Mental Anarchist said:
I don't think Rossi had many options so going to Ducati was not about the same reasons as it had been in the past when he had lots of options. Rossi backed himself into a corner when he demanded that it was him or Lorenzo. When it became clear to him that his demands did not have the same leverage as they had done at other important negotiation times in his career he had to take what he could get so to speak.



There are only 4 options on a MotoGP Grid. Yamaha, Honda, Ducati and Suzuki. Rossi killed his options at Honda after 2003. Suzuki would not have been a serious option. He had backed himself into a corner at yamaha and it would have been a serious case of eating humble pie which Rossi does not like the taste of so Ducati was his last and only option. When you have only one option in a negotiation you don't have much to bargain with.
Click to expand...





Agree + 1







J4rn0 said:
Interesting logic
rolleyes.gif




Now explain why one of the best technical crews in MotoGP decided to follow as one man this pathetic figure of a motorcycle racer who has arrived at the end of his game and had remained with only one option.



Masochism? Pity? Sheer folly? Dementia?
blink.gif


Or, maybe, when thinking of 2012 and the return of 1000cc, Ducati looked like an interesting place to be? A place where they could help design a new bike in a way that would be impossible in a Japanese corporation?



I know I know -- only time will tell
<
Click to expand...



Regardless of prospects in 2012 - I doubt very much Rossi is relishing the idea of a crap 2011 season of wrestling with the 800 - with an eye to a big maybe

for an improved machine a year into the future. He'd have been able to stay on what is arguably one of the two best bikes in MGP and stayed

in his comfort zone - if he hadn't backed himself into a corner. It's a daunting prospect at best. Nobody would be so preposterous as to suggest that this move was a Machiavellian masterstroke on Rossi's part. Who knows? Maybe Nicky will have to school the master.
 
Keshav said:
Agree + 1











Regardless of prospects in 2012 - I doubt very much Rossi is relishing the idea of a crap 2011 season of wrestling with the 800 - with an eye to a big maybe

for an improved machine a year into the future. He'd have been able to stay on what is arguably one of the two best bikes in MGP and stayed

in his comfort zone - if he hadn't backed himself into a corner. It's a daunting prospect at best. Nobody would be so preposterous as to suggest that this move was a Machiavellian masterstroke on Rossi's part. Who knows? Maybe Nicky will have to school the master.
Click to expand...



Again, he could have stayed at Yamaha another year or two. It's a big (biased) assumption to say he put himself in a corner and then couldn't stay any longer without 'losing face'. This kind of psycho-drama assumptions are fantasy.



As it is fantasy saying, on the basis of two days of tests, that Rossi 1) got the worst of all options because 2) he couldn't get anything else. Both points 1) and 2) are based purely on (biased) hot air.
 

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