MUGELLO **Race thread**

[frizzle]

Friz, take a deep breath -- what I was comparing was the improvement of the fastest Yamaha (Lorenzo 1.2 seconds faster than himself) against the improvement of the fastest Ducati (Rossi 1.6 seconds faster than Stoner last year).



The point was if Rossi was trying hard enough, and if the Ducati has improved or gone backwards. The numbers tells us that Vale is trying hard enough and that the Ducati has improved, although not enough to stay with Honda and Yamaha. Period.



All the rest is the usual nonsense. I'm trying to discuss data precisely to stay away from that.

BTW I did mention the resurfaced track -- it was the same this year both for Lorenzo-Yamaha and for Rossi-Ducati, wasn't it -- so the comparison automatically takes the track variable into account.

I'm quite calm J4rn0. Thanks for your concern.

I'm sure nobody thinks Rossi or Ducati aren't trying hard enough.

Your data is flawed & you know it. You looked for data that would suit your argument but ignored any other logic that went against it.

I just gave you a very valid argument as to your flawed logic regarding past years times.

According to your own data, Stoner would have finished over 30 seconds behind Rossi on last years bike. I say poppy .....

I also say poppy .... to last years bike being over 30 seconds slower over race distance than the new bike around Mugello.

If they had found 1.6 seconds per lap from last years bike they would have won their home GP in a canter.

The results are the only thing that counts. Right now they are nowhere.



Edit - Most of the riders in Mondays test are also 6 tenths to one second faster than they were in Sundays race & 6 or 7 tenths faster than they were in qualifying.

If you can't see how flawed your argument is, then it's because you refuse to.

 

[krusty]

First off, congratulations to Jorge Lorenzo. That was a great ride from the world champion. You can’t question his attitude and commitment. I’ll admit that when he came into MotoGP I honestly thought that he wouldn’t wear the number 1 plate because I believed that the rain would be his Achilles’ Heel. He has proved me wrong … he is one tough, determined (and VERY skilful) rider. He certainly isn’t a quitter.



Good determined ride by Dovi. It would have to be rated as one of his best rides in this class. He’s coming on strong and would be riding/carrying a lot of confidence. I can’t see him as world champion, but stranger things have been known to happen. He is racking up the points and staying in touch with the two most obvious title contenders.



Great ride by Stoner. That boy is very, very, very good. He didn’t have everything go his way with the team making a mistake, but he is without doubt a class act. It’s pretty hard to find any weakness with him.



Spies rode a good race but I still think he needs to find a little more to contend regularly. That will probably come next year with the bigger bikes. Simo stayed on and didn’t hit anyone … bonus! Good to see Dani back … he’ll be right in a few rounds. I’ve started getting used to Rossi as a mid pack rider … shame … I hope Ducati turn it around soon for both their sakes. It really does put Stoner’s performances over the last few years into perspective. It seems only the truly gifted can ride all types of bikes!



Now to the low point … Crutchlow … that performance was abhorrent. Herve’s blood pressure must have gone through the roof. You just don’t quit mid race without a justifiable reason. I had high hopes for Crutchlow but he has shown he has no ticker. No ticker = no future. They should rename that team “chalk and cheese”. Edwards must be bewildered and mortified by the performances of his last two teammates. At least he must have some good laughs away from the track. He is too much of a professional to show it at the race track.



We all know what runs through Edwards' veins and it is far from being pure Texan. They obviously breed them tough in some places, not so much in others.

 

[inam22]

Great race, finally some action up front. Fantastic ride by Lorenzo, didn't think that he will be able to catch Stoner. Solid ride by Dovi, he seemed motivated by home race and home crowd. Another podium for Stoner, can't be bad for his championship hopes. Disappointing race again for Rossi!!

 

[povol]

First off, congratulations to Jorge Lorenzo. That was a great ride from the world champion. You can’t question his attitude and commitment. I’ll admit that when he came into MotoGP I honestly thought that he wouldn’t wear the number 1 plate because I believed that the rain would be his Achilles’ Heel. He has proved me wrong … he is one tough, determined (and VERY skilful) rider. He certainly isn’t a quitter.



Good determined ride by Dovi. It would have to be rated as one of his best rides in this class. He’s coming on strong and would be riding/carrying a lot of confidence. I can’t see him as world champion, but stranger things have been known to happen. He is racking up the points and staying in touch with the two most obvious title contenders.



Great ride by Stoner. That boy is very, very, very good. He didn’t have everything go his way with the team making a mistake, but he is without doubt a class act. It’s pretty hard to find any weakness with him.



Spies rode a good race but I still think he needs to find a little more to contend regularly. That will probably come next year with the bigger bikes. Simo stayed on and didn’t hit anyone … bonus! Good to see Dani back … he’ll be right in a few rounds. I’ve started getting used to Rossi as a mid pack rider … shame … I hope Ducati turn it around soon for both their sakes. It really does put Stoner’s performances over the last few years into perspective. It seems only the truly gifted can ride all types of bikes!



Now to the low point … Crutchlow … that performance was abhorrent. Herve’s blood pressure must have gone through the roof. You just don’t quit mid race without a justifiable reason. I had high hopes for Crutchlow but he has shown he has no ticker. No ticker = no future. They should rename that team “chalk and cheese”. Edwards must be bewildered and mortified by the performances of his last two teammates. At least he must have some good laughs away from the track. He is too much of a professional to show it at the race track.



We all know what runs through Edwards' veins and it is far from being pure Texan. They obviously breed them tough in some places, not so much in others.

Herve was not happy with Crutchlow and let ot be known after the race



Our riders to ok the soft rear and hard front and the start was not so bad and I think they were having a good race until Cal came into the pits. This is the second time in successive races that he has stopped and in Assen we could clearly see there was a problem. But his tyre choice was the same as Colin, so I would have expected him to stay out considering where he was in the race. And he needs experience of the bike and this track, so we'll put today behind us and hope to see him showing his true potential in Germany.





If you read between the lines, Herve was saying he couldnt believe Cal quit, and is expecting him to show some guts in the next race.

 

[Jumkie]

Krusty, or anybody willing to answer, i havnt had chance to read EVERYTHING GP like i normally do ( for several reasons) However, whats going on with Cal? U say "quit"? Thats strong, can i get a bit of update. I asked in my original post but everybody has ignored my question. What happened to Cal?

 

[krusty]

Krusty, or anybody willing to answer, i havnt had chance to read EVERYTHING GP like i normally do ( for several reasons) However, whats going on with Cal? U say "quit"? Thats strong, can i get a bit of update. I asked in my original post but everybody has ignored my question. What happened to Cal?

He was having what appeared to be a good race, somewhere around top 6. He suddenly dropped off the timesheets and pulled into the pits. Shook his head, jumped off the bike and went back to his high chair. There he stayed. All conjecture after that but from Herve's (guarded) comments he wasn't happy with him at all. He had a justifiable reason last time, but not so this time it would seem.

 

[FTE217]

Far out having to catch up reading the previous 3 pages I felt I was on " The Young Ones" or something, christ 320 just stick to the topic at hand instead of these justifying post after post get over it - I'll forgive you being a Boaner fan but get on with it !



I vaguely recall Cal had something wrong with the front end ?

 

[BarryMachine]

I vaguely recall Cal had something wrong with the front end ?

Was reported as a tyre problem again.



As an outside observer one would think it would have been a hard job for Crutchlow these past two rounds, what with the collarbone and to be honest that would be enough reason for many to accept his decision to pull off.



But who knows, Herve does have insider knowledge. It seemed to me they dumped Toseland too quickly, and perhaps now Crutchlow is on the way out?

Perhaps Herve is a hard taskmaster, perhaps stamina is not a trait of the Brit riders? Perhaps Colin wanting to come back the day after he broke his collarbone was because he was wary that it could "sew the seeds of discontent" in Herve?

 

[bluegreen]

First off, congratulations to Jorge Lorenzo. That was a great ride from the world champion. You can’t question his attitude and commitment. I’ll admit that when he came into MotoGP I honestly thought that he wouldn’t wear the number 1 plate because I believed that the rain would be his Achilles’ Heel. He has proved me wrong … he is one tough, determined (and VERY skilful) rider. He certainly isn’t a quitter.



Good determined ride by Dovi. It would have to be rated as one of his best rides in this class. He’s coming on strong and would be riding/carrying a lot of confidence. I can’t see him as world champion, but stranger things have been known to happen. He is racking up the points and staying in touch with the two most obvious title contenders.



Great ride by Stoner. That boy is very, very, very good. He didn’t have everything go his way with the team making a mistake, but he is without doubt a class act. It’s pretty hard to find any weakness with him.



Spies rode a good race but I still think he needs to find a little more to contend regularly. That will probably come next year with the bigger bikes. Simo stayed on and didn’t hit anyone … bonus! Good to see Dani back … he’ll be right in a few rounds. I’ve started getting used to Rossi as a mid pack rider … shame … I hope Ducati turn it around soon for both their sakes. It really does put Stoner’s performances over the last few years into perspective. It seems only the truly gifted can ride all types of bikes!



Now to the low point … Crutchlow … that performance was abhorrent. Herve’s blood pressure must have gone through the roof. You just don’t quit mid race without a justifiable reason. I had high hopes for Crutchlow but he has shown he has no ticker. No ticker = no future. They should rename that team “chalk and cheese”. Edwards must be bewildered and mortified by the performances of his last two teammates. At least he must have some good laughs away from the track. He is too much of a professional to show it at the race track.



We all know what runs through Edwards' veins and it is far from being pure Texan. They obviously breed them tough in some places, not so much in others.

Spies?

 

[chopperman]

Krusty, or anybody willing to answer, i havnt had chance to read EVERYTHING GP like i normally do ( for several reasons) However, whats going on with Cal? U say "quit"? Thats strong, can i get a bit of update. I asked in my original post but everybody has ignored my question. What happened to Cal?

The bbc interviewed cal afterwards and he said. he had a problem with the front. It was so bad he missed every single turn and feared he was about to crash. He went on to say that he never quits but in this instance he thought a crash was inevitable and he has his shoulder to think about. Colin Edwards also reported similar problem with the front and was clearly un-happy when interviewed. Sounds to me like Herve is passing the buck a little here !

 

[Talpa]

The bbc interviewed cal afterwards and he said. he had a problem with the front. It was so bad he missed every single turn and feared he was about to crash. He went on to say that he never quits but in this instance he thought a crash was inevitable and he has his shoulder to think about. Colin Edwards also reported similar problem with the front and was clearly un-happy when interviewed. Sounds to me like Herve is passing the buck a little here !

You can't help but thing that Tech 3 may be getting old rubber from Bridgestone's stockpile as Jorge suggested the rubber is worse than last year........? Too many strange issues, on what is a very well sorted bike.

 

[frizzle]

The bbc interviewed cal afterwards and he said. he had a problem with the front. It was so bad he missed every single turn and feared he was about to crash. He went on to say that he never quits but in this instance he thought a crash was inevitable and he has his shoulder to think about. Colin Edwards also reported similar problem with the front and was clearly un-happy when interviewed. Sounds to me like Herve is passing the buck a little here !

To suggest Cal would just throw in the towel without reason is pretty silly from Herve.

Nice way to ruin team moral also. I hope it's more a media beat up.

 

[320IDave]

Repsol Honda's bridgestone technician's face by lap 15 12280:impossibru.png]

 

[Pinky]

just imagine the .... flying around if stoner did the same thing as cal.... oh the humanity



at least finish the race, run 10 seconds a lap slower, who cares... ffs dont just stop

 

[povol]

The bbc interviewed cal afterwards and he said. he had a problem with the front. It was so bad he missed every single turn and feared he was about to crash. He went on to say that he never quits but in this instance he thought a crash was inevitable and he has his shoulder to think about. Colin Edwards also reported similar problem with the front and was clearly un-happy when interviewed. Sounds to me like Herve is passing the buck a little here !

I think thats what has Herve a little miffed. Same problem both bikes. Both riders have broken collarbones. One brings it home, the other quits mid race.In sports, a coach or a manager is going to look at that and favor the guy who stuck it out every time. Im not sure what they are actually racing for, such as large rewards at the end of the year to the top satellite team or what, but Herve seems plenty miffed. Maybe its because he knows how hard that sponsorship is to come by and every second of TV time could be the difference in fielding a team and not. I believe the answer to a lot of people questions are being answered as to how and why Colin has stayed in GP as long as he has. He is a team player with work ethic.

 

[chopperman]

I think thats what has Herve a little miffed. Same problem both bikes. Both riders have broken collarbones. One brings it home, the other quits mid race.In sports, a coach or a manager is going to look at that and favor the guy who stuck it out every time. Im not sure what they are actually racing for, such as large rewards at the end of the year to the top satellite team or what, but Herve seems plenty miffed. Maybe its because he knows how hard that sponsorship is to come by and every second of TV time could be the difference in fielding a team and not. I believe the answer to a lot of people questions are being answered as to how and why Colin has stayed in GP as long as he has. He is a team player with work ethic.

So you're implying cal has no work ethic ? I think Herv would be even more miffed had cal stayed out knowing he was going to crash and wrecked the bike and himself, Or do you only think race-line cruising is dangerous ? For someone who was beating the safety drum so hard the other week im a little surprised at your attitude.. Maybe an anti british thing eh

 

[320IDave]

How bad was Carl's tire problem? if he decided to quit the race i'll never blame him.



The last thing we want are random outcomes for non safe actions, if he thought it was better to quit then he was probably right.

 

[chopperman]

How bad was Carl's tire problem? if he decided to quit the race i'll never blame him.



The last thing we want are random outcomes for non safe actions, if he thought it was better to quit then he was probably right.

He said unlike assen there was no real visible damage but the bike handled so badly he missed every turn and thought a crash was inevitable. To carry on was risking too much under the circumstances.

I don't think Colins problem was as bad but he did say he has front issues and was not happy. I would think riding a bike that handles as badly as cal said it did with a busted shoulder is not fun. I take povs point that ce2 also has a busted shoulder but im unsure how much danger colin felt he was in riding at mugello.

 

[Jumkie]

The bbc interviewed cal afterwards and he said. he had a problem with the front. It was so bad he missed every single turn and feared he was about to crash. He went on to say that he never quits but in this instance he thought a crash was inevitable and he has his shoulder to think about. Colin Edwards also reported similar problem with the front and was clearly un-happy when interviewed. Sounds to me like Herve is passing the buck a little here !

Thanks, finally I get some info. Sounds to me like he did the right thing. There is not use in risking another injury. Yeah, he could have slowed down, but doesn't that also pose another set of dangerous possibilities? No need to be a rolling chicane with every joe trying to pass you posses another possible risk.



Edwards has the same bike with same tires, are people actually thinking Colin also had the same set up and riding style?

(I'm not gonna explain the rest).

 

[Jumkie]

You can't help but thing that Tech 3 may be getting old rubber from Bridgestone's stockpile as Jorge suggested the rubber is worse than last year........? Too many strange issues, on what is a very well sorted bike.

You must be really upset with Bridgestone then, for ruining Stoner's race. I mean, a tire with such a narrow tire pressure demand must be killing you to see the race decided by Bridgestone shoddy product.