MUGELLO **Race thread**

[BarryMachine]

We have to remember also that Herve has to satisfy sponsors. His utterances would be influenced by that, and indeed they would need to reflect that.

 

[chopperman]

Thanks, finally I get some info. Sounds to me like he did the right thing. There is not use in risking another injury. Yeah, he could have slowed down, but doesn't that also pose another set of dangerous possibilities? No need to be a rolling chicane with every joe trying to pass you posses another possible risk.



Edwards has the same bike with same tires, are people actually thinking Colin also had the same set up and riding style?

(I'm not gonna explain the rest).

Im not a fan of riders that quit. Remember the stick we all gave Hoffmann until months later the truth came out. When it did we didn't respect him for quitting but we understood and wished him well for the future.

If cal's problems were as bad as he says then i understand him pitting ,One thing is for sure tho, he better step up his game in germany now !

 

[J4rn0]

I'm quite calm J4rn0. Thanks for your concern.

I'm sure nobody thinks Rossi or Ducati aren't trying hard enough.

Your data is flawed & you know it. You looked for data that would suit your argument but ignored any other logic that went against it.

I just gave you a very valid argument as to your flawed logic regarding past years times.

According to your own data, Stoner would have finished over 30 seconds behind Rossi on last years bike. I say poppy .....

I also say poppy .... to last years bike being over 30 seconds slower over race distance than the new bike around Mugello.

If they had found 1.6 seconds per lap from last years bike they would have won their home GP in a canter.

The results are the only thing that counts. Right now they are nowhere.



Edit - Most of the riders in Mondays test are also 6 tenths to one second faster than they were in Sundays race & 6 or 7 tenths faster than they were in qualifying.

If you can't see how flawed your argument is, then it's because you refuse to.

Nahh, do not make me say such nonsense: I have compared the fastest laps of the best Ducati and best Yamaha during the races of 2011 and 2010 at Mugello. I never thought of calculating an imaginary race time for an imaginary Stoner-Ducati from that 1.6 sec difference, the idea is silly. It is your projection that is flawed, not the data.

By the way, Stoner-Ducati were fourth last year, more than 25 secs from the winner (with Rossi absent and a less competitive field). Doesn't look like at this point of the season, last year, Ducati was any better than now. They did improve towards the end of the season, and hopefully they may do the same this year.

 

[povol]

So you're implying cal has no work ethic ? I think Herv would be even more miffed had cal stayed out knowing he was going to crash and wrecked the bike and himself, Or do you only think race-line cruising is dangerous ? For someone who was beating the safety drum so hard the other week im a little surprised at your attitude.. Maybe an anti british thing eh

I could care less if he came in or stayed out, thats why i said,what exactly is a team like Tech 3 racing for. Is it a big paycheck at the end of the year for top satellite team? All i was saying is Herve thought he should have stayed out, and in the big picture, thats all that matters. If the boss thinks you quit, you quit. As far as this being an anti "British" thing, i do not have a history of being anti British, Italian, Spaniard, or any other country that fields a Motogp rider.Maybe with the work stoppage in the UK, your having a little bit of a inferiority complex about the work ethic of your countrymen.I dont know, you tell me.

 

[chopperman]

I could care less if he came in or stayed out, thats why i said,what exactly is a team like Tech 3 racing for. Is it a big paycheck at the end of the year for top satellite team? All i was saying is Herve thought he should have stayed out, and in the big picture, thats all that matters. If the boss thinks you quit, you quit. As far as this being an anti "British" thing, i do not have a history of being anti British, Italian, Spaniard, or any other country that fields a Motogp rider.Maybe with the work stoppage in the UK, your having a little bit of a inferiority complex about the work ethic of your countrymen.I dont know, you tell me.

I just feel the hate for everything not Republican in all your posts

I think everyone who reads your post that i quopted can see the thinly veiled digs.

 

[povol]

I just feel the hate for everything not Republican in all your posts

I think everyone who reads your post that i quopted can see the thinly veiled digs.

Is Crutchlow a Democrat

Dude, your paranoid, lay off the juice.

 

[chopperman]

Is Crutchlow a Democrat

Dude, your paranoid, lay off the juice.

I think he is communist

Its your work ethic comment that got my goat. I agree ce2 has a good work ethic but the way you said it was to imply Cal doesn't ,just because he pulled out of a race. He gave his reasons so who the .... are you to question them. He's ....... English you yank peasant, That's nearly royalty to you hillbilly's. Have you never heard the phrase "an Englishman word is his bond" ???

 

[Mr. Shupe]

I think he is communist

Its your work ethic comment that got my goat. I agree ce2 has a good work ethic but the way you said it was to imply Cal doesn't ,just because he pulled out of a race. He gave his reasons so who the .... are you to question them. He's ....... English you yank peasant, That's nearly royalty to you hillbilly's. Have you never heard the phrase "an Englishman word is his bond" ???

Who the .... are we to have a forum at all then?

 

[frizzle]

Nahh, do not make me say such nonsense: I have compared the fastest laps of the best Ducati and best Yamaha during the races of 2011 and 2010 at Mugello. I never thought of calculating an imaginary race time for an imaginary Stoner-Ducati from that 1.6 sec difference, the idea is silly. It is your projection that is flawed, not the data.

By the way, Stoner-Ducati were fourth last year, more than 25 secs from the winner (with Rossi absent and a less competitive field). Doesn't look like at this point of the season, last year, Ducati was any better than now. They did improve towards the end of the season, and hopefully they may do the same this year.

J4rn0 nobody made you say such nonsense. You did it all by yourself.



Here is your quote.

Rossi's best lap was 1.6 seconds faster than Stoner's best lap of last year:



ROSSI-DUCATI 2011 best lap: 1'49''3

STONER-DUCATI 2010 best lap: 1'50''9

23 laps of the Mugello circuit at 1.6 seconds faster is 36.8 seconds in front over race distance.

Any claim using times from another day let alone another year is completely irrelevant as Mondays test times show.

That has been my point all along, your data is completely flawed.



I'll say it one more time, analysing lap times from one year to another is pointless & desperate.

I have shown that to you with numerous facts, but again that doesn't suit your argument does it?

 

[frizzle]

HAHA, i did actually read your debate with jurno, i was just punking you cos you directed yours and his argument at me and i didn't feel like making .... easy for you

Side note , i agreed with jurno but it still had nothing to do with my post which to be honest ive forgoten what it was

....... time zones.

Right bed for me now , you aussies behave now and dont take advantage out of these time zones.

Nah I wont.



Rog is a prick & if he doesn't deny it in the next 5 minutes then we can all confirm it.

Edit - Damn I gotta get up earlier. Rog is already online.

 

[chopperman]

Who the .... are we to have a forum at all then?

Was that a deliberate "out of context" quote or another example of british sense of humour being lost on americans ?

 

[chopperman]

Nah I wont.



Rog is a prick & if he doesn't deny it in the next 5 minutes then we can all confirm it.

Edit - Damn I gotta get up earlier. Rog is already online.

 

[Bunyip]

Nah I wont.



Rog is a prick & if he doesn't deny it in the next 5 minutes then we can all confirm it.

Edit - Damn I gotta get up earlier. Rog is already online.

Rog IS a prick, even if he does deny it.

...........its okay, I still luv you you great big lug

 

[povol]

I think he is communist

Its your work ethic comment that got my goat. I agree ce2 has a good work ethic but the way you said it was to imply Cal doesn't ,just because he pulled out of a race. He gave his reasons so who the .... are you to question them. He's ....... English you yank peasant, That's nearly royalty to you hillbilly's. Have you never heard the phrase "an Englishman word is his bond" ???

It was Herve that questioned them not me. Just remember, it was those hillbillies that ran the British out of the country. I dont think they looked up to them as royalty, just something to shoot at.

 

[michaelm]

Just accept that Lorenzo and Dovisioso had his number today, just as Spies had his number last week.



I guess Assen and Mugello aren't 'Stoner tracks'

.

Mugello isn't a stoner track. His one premier class win here was in a wet/dry race in 2009 where he made up 10 seconds or something ridiculous in the changeover laps. He was 4th here even in 2007, the race where barros on the pramac ducati famously beat him to the podium, again with tyre issues reputedly involved.



That said, he was out ridden in the last 2 races, credit to spies and lorenzo, and yamaha may also have found something. He still looks pretty good to me overall, and even your boy rossi and mick doohan in their best years didn't win every race in a season, with less formidable opposition than jorge lorenzo in particular.

 

[J4rn0]

J4rn0 nobody made you say such nonsense. You did it all by yourself.



Here is your quote.





23 laps of the Mugello circuit at 1.6 seconds faster is 36.8 seconds in front over race distance.

Any claim using times from another day let alone another year is completely irrelevant as Mondays test times show.

That has been my point all along, your data is completely flawed.



I'll say it one more time, analysing lap times from one year to another is pointless & desperate.

I have shown that to you with numerous facts, but again that doesn't suit your argument does it?

Dont' you see that the calculation you make is absurd? You can not multiply fast laps to calculate hypothetical race times. I give you a fact that can be useful, and you twist it out of shape to deny it...

 

[frizzle]

Dont' you see that the calculation you make is absurd? You can not multiply fast laps to calculate hypothetical race times. I give you a fact that can be useful, and you twist it out of shape to deny it...

Haha, lets see if you see the irony in your post. I bet you don't get it. Here is a hint. You can not calculate race laps from one year to another to calculate progress.

Of course I see it's not accurate. It is as ridiculous as comparing race times from one year to another.

Do you think all the bikes improved close to a second from race day on Sunday to the test day at Mugello the following day?

I am absolutely gobsmacked you can't see how unreliable the information is.

 

[Jumkie]

Friz, good point about over night improvement. It would seem austonishing that they could improve one day what it took a whole year. I think J4rno is just clutching at straws for minute positives. And thats fine. Since according to him, Ducati are not doing anything out of the ordinary to develop the bike. So that modest improvement over a year has more to do with the new contracted rider.

 

[povol]

Haha, lets see if you see the irony in your post. I bet you don't get it. Here is a hint. You can not calculate race laps from one year to another to calculate progress.

Of course I see it's not accurate. It is as ridiculous as comparing race times from one year to another.

Do you think all the bikes improved close to a second from race day on Sunday to the test day at Mugello the following day?

I am absolutely gobsmacked you can't see how unreliable the information is.

I have used 2009 and 2010 WSBK lap times as why you cant compare lap times from year to year. In 2009 Spies was dominant, winning poles, winning races and winning the championship. The next year, Crutchlow on the 2010 version of Spies bike, regularly ran faster lap times than Spies had the previous year, yet came no where near garnering the results that Spies achieved. Lap time comparisons from year to year are meaningless, to may variables for them to mean anything. The Ducati in Stoners years, got better year after year when compared to the previous years lap times, but it was going backward at the same time. This year, Honda has pick up a tenth or two with the new gearbox, a tenth or two with the new tire, and a second with a new rider. The Ducati has picked up from tire and gearbox changes, they just haven't got the second out of the new rider yet.

 

[Bunyip]

I have used 2009 and 2010 WSBK lap times as why you cant compare lap times from year to year. In 2009 Spies was dominant, winning poles, winning races and winning the championship. The next year, Crutchlow on the 2010 version of Spies bike, regularly ran faster lap times than Spies had the previous year, yet came no where near garnering the results that Spies achieved. Lap time comparisons from year to year are meaningless, to may variables for them to mean anything. The Ducati in Stoners years, got better year after year when compared to the previous years lap times, but it was going backward at the same time. This year, Honda has pick up a tenth or two with the new gearbox, a tenth or two with the new tire, and a second with a new rider. The Ducati has picked up from tire and gearbox changes, they just haven't got the second out of the new rider yet.

Brilliant..............................but true.