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Rd 16 - MotoGP Guru by Gryfyn Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix 2023

#22 said:
I think is was Marttin himself....
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Well whoever in his garage didn't tell him it was a stupid idea should be fired then. It would be one thing if he was struggling as a way to attempt to get some pace, but when you are faster than everyone on the same tire it doesn't make sense. Someone /everyone in his pit should have been telling him so.
 
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MdubSTYLIE said:
Well whoever in his garage didn't tell him it was a stupid idea should be fired then. It would be one thing if he was struggling as a way to attempt to get some pace, but when you are faster than everyone on the same tire it doesn't make sense. Someone /everyone in his pit should have been telling him so.
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He was one lap from making it work to his advantage, sometimes life is like that when you take a calculated gamble.

He still has lots of time to pull things off if he keeps riding like he has the last few races, this guy is currently on a level of his own !
 
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DavidSim said:
He was one lap from making it work to his advantage, sometimes life is like that when you take a calculated gamble.

He still has lots of time to pull things off if he keeps riding like he has the last few races, this guy is currently on a level of his own !
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Horse shoes and hand grenades my guy. Almost winning doesn't mean .... in racing. Calculated is the key word here. This was not a calculated gamble. A calculated gamble means you calculated the odds and decide a gamble was worth the risk. This was an unnecessary gamble. He gambled when he was the clear favorite to win with the same tire as everyone else.
 
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I've read that Martin didn't do enough laps on mediums during practice to work out how to make them work
 
mikesbytes said:
I've read that Martin didn't do enough laps on mediums during practice to work out how to make them work
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Well I watched him do so many laps on the soft that they didn't work. If thats true thats his and the teams fault. In no race are the softs the tire of choice.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Well I watched him do so many laps on the soft that they didn't work. If thats true thats his and the teams fault. In no race are the softs the tire of choice.
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Probably a combination of his fault plus the teams fault. I'm assuming he raced on a strategy of going easy on a soft rather than going hard on a medium. As others have said whatever his strategy was it was 1 lap too short which was better than the others that went out on the soft.
 
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mikesbytes said:
Probably a combination of his fault plus the teams fault. I'm assuming he raced on a strategy of going easy on a soft rather than going hard on a medium. As others have said whatever his strategy was it was 1 lap too short which was better than the others that went out on the soft.
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The others weren't riding the best bike on the grid and the favorite to win the race. They aren't fighting for the championship. They had nothing to lose he did. And lose he did.
 
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MdubSTYLIE said:
The others weren't riding the best bike on the grid and the favorite to win the race. They aren't fighting for the championship. They had nothing to lose he did. And lose he did.
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Perhaps the Ducati was better at preserving the rear tyre and hence the soft lasted longer than it did for the others on soft - don't know. Ironically if the race had been one lap shorter we would of been talking about how the soft was the better choice :)
 
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MdubSTYLIE said:
The others weren't riding the best bike on the grid and the favorite to win the race. They aren't fighting for the championship. They had nothing to lose he did. And lose he did.
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I guess he was only 1 lap short of the tyre lasting, and perhaps hadn’t felt comfortable on the medium in practice.

The retrospectoscope is a powerful instrument but you would have to think on form all year that he would be faster than Zarco who won on the same tyre, and PI is pretty much known for being abrasive on tires, so a soft tire strategy pretty much was a significant gamble.

In my view in this and the last race he hasn’t looked at any strategy other than going all out to win both races. Sure that is how he got to the lead in the title, but he also did this due to mistakes from Bagnaia, and once in the lead he could perhaps have been more strategic, which I had thought after the previous race as well, leaving the pressure on Bagnaia, whereas now it is all on him. I guess MM has been known to make a soft tyre last when nobody else could, but even he also eventually evolved to being prepared to take a podium result rather than going all out to win in the interests of winning a title.
 
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mikesbytes said:
Perhaps the Ducati was better at preserving the rear tyre and hence the soft lasted longer than it did for the others on soft - don't know. Ironically if the race had been one lap shorter we would of been talking about how the soft was the better choice :)
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The tire fell off long before the last lap. The time he made up early with it didn't make up for the amount of time he was losing in the last 6. He would have been in the fight with the medium something that can't be said about anyone who chose the soft. He was a sitting duck. If he didn't feel confident on the medium because he didn't ride it enough in practice that won't be a mistake he makes again. Like I said choosing the soft tire is not something someone fighting for the title should ever do. Its a desperation move. He other than his crash the race before has been on another level on equal tires. This was completely uncalled for. His team should have never let this happen. Bet he is out on the medium straight away this weekend.
 
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michaelm said:
I guess he was only 1 lap short of the tyre lasting, and perhaps hadn’t felt comfortable on the medium in practice.

The retrospectoscope is a powerful instrument but you would have to think on form all year that he would be faster than Zarco who won on the same tyre, and PI is pretty much known for being abrasive on tires, so a soft tire strategy pretty much was a significant gamble.

In my view in this and the last race he hasn’t looked at any strategy other than going all out to win both races. Sure that is how he got to the lead in the title, but he also did this due to mistakes from Bagnaia, and once in the lead he could perhaps have been more strategic, which I had thought after the previous race as well, leaving the pressure on Bagnaia, whereas now it is all on him. I guess MM has been known to make a soft tyre last when nobody else could, but even he also eventually evolved to being prepared to take a podium result rather than going all out to win in the interests of winning a title.
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I disagree with the mentality that he was one lap short of the tire lasting. He was 6 laps short of the tire lasting. With 3 laps to go it was obvious he was done for. The guys catching him were making up so much time they had 4 seconds to spare if you did the math. Had this been someone with nothing to lose, anyone not in the title hunt I would commend the effort. But at that point he still controlled his destiny. All he had to do was beat baglady. The risk was not worth the reward. He should have been testing the medium straight away gaining confidence. I remember during fp1 they asked his crew why he was the only rider in practice who was on the soft tire. He said we are testing it to see how it works. We need to test all the tires. No you don't. In Martins situations he just has to do what everyone else is doing and win. Just like he has been doing the entire second half of the season.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
I disagree with the mentality that he was one lap short of the tire lasting. He was 6 laps short of the tire lasting. With 3 laps to go it was obvious he was done for. The guys catching him were making up so much time they had 4 seconds to spare if you did the math. Had this been someone with nothing to lose, anyone not in the title hunt I would commend the effort. But at that point he still controlled his destiny. All he had to do was beat baglady. The risk was not worth the reward. He should have been testing the medium straight away gaining confidence. I remember during fp1 they asked his crew why he was the only rider in practice who was on the soft tire. He said we are testing it to see how it works. We need to test all the tires. No you don't. In Martins situations he just has to do what everyone else is doing and win. Just like he has been doing the entire second half of the season.
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I totally agree with you and posted that it was a stupid decision straight after the race, I was trying to make a vague attempt to look at things from his point of view and at what his mentality might have been even if it was wrong. As you say he has a presumably professional team who should have been able to talk him out of it though...

A soft tire at PI in particular is crazy, it is a renowned abrasive track where there have been significant problems in the past, including a mandatory tire stop in 2013 as I recall because no tire was going to make the distance, although that may have been after re-surfacing.

He has been flat out faster than Bagnaia when they are on the same tire let alone Zarco, and the main chance imo of either of those riders beating him had he been on the medium tire would have been better preservation of the medium tire on their part.. I guess the realisation that he was a serious chance for the title has led to errors in judgement, riding-wise at Indonesia and with the tire choice at PI, a second in Indonesia and a first on the right tire at PI would have had him sitting pretty with all the pressure on Bagnaia as I said..
 
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MdubSTYLIE said:
The tire fell off long before the last lap. The time he made up early with it didn't make up for the amount of time he was losing in the last 6. He would have been in the fight with the medium something that can't be said about anyone who chose the soft. He was a sitting duck. If he didn't feel confident on the medium because he didn't ride it enough in practice that won't be a mistake he makes again. Like I said choosing the soft tire is not something someone fighting for the title should ever do. Its a desperation move. He other than his crash the race before has been on another level on equal tires. This was completely uncalled for. His team should have never let this happen. Bet he is out on the medium straight away this weekend.
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We all agree that the soft shouldn't of been used. He was in the lead when he crossed the line for the last lap, he would of won if the race was one lap shorter
 
mikesbytes said:
Middle east off memory. He followed his team mate around making no effort to overtake him, ending up a 1,2 for the team. He was asked in the podium post conference interview whether there was team orders and he didn't answer stating "it was the best result for team", providing the same answer twice

BTY Wildcat is NZ New Zealand? I lived there as a kid
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