Mugello MotoGP testing

Mental Anarchist said:

I have no objection to people having diferent views or formulating views when actual footage is available, which most of the time is the case. In this case there is no footage of the incident or Karel confronting Stoner. Therefore for people to be making definitive judgements is arrogant.



As far as several outlets reporting the same thing I would suggest that this is probably a regurgitation of the same or at best a couple of opinions. If lots of people say that something happened from your experience does it always make it correct.



You will notice in my post that I have said no where that in this case Stoner is right or wrong. What I have said is that I believe he has a right to protect his competitive advantage.



As far as brake checking, the report says he rolled off the throttle, no mention of brakes. And those that claim that this is dangerous where were you when Rossi BRAKE checked Stoner at Laguna 08 and caused him to go of the track and fall. I recall Rog you saying this was good racecraft.

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hawkdriver said:

Here is Casey's point of view and he did close the throttle on him and he does intend to try and talk to Abraham in Germany. This actually gives me some hope that Casey realizes he can't keep on doing these things no matter how pisse he gets, way to much on the line to get hurt over practice.

CS

"I didn’t expect it to be honest and he’s been riding well. But already a few times last weekend he’s been looking behind and when he sees you coming he starts to accelerate to get on the racing line and I have nowhere to go.



"I have to take a completely different line and in testing you need to give everybody space because we’re not here to try and get the fastest lap, we’re trying to test. I wanted to go into the last corner and he was directly on the line where I wanted to go and I wasn’t so happy.



"So when I closed the gas on the exit of the first corner he started to become angry with me and I didn’t like this because he was the one trying to get some advantage from me and take away from my advantage.



"I’m a bit disappointed but I’ll probably go and speak to him at Sachsenring and see if we can resolve it and improve the situation.”



http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...July/jul0511-stoner-explains-abraham-bust-up/

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Nuts said:

Storm in a team cup !!!

There is something wrong with MotoGP when the biggest news story out of testing is a blow up between KA and Stoner.

So two riders got their crankies on. It happens almost every race weekend (usually with Stoner involved).



Very little about the lap times, or new bits being tested, or the testing of a new Moto1 bike, or the lap record being smashed, or the fact that KA improved by more than 0.7sec and was faster than any of the Duc's over the weekend.

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Jumkie said:

As usual, balance post. Casey is phenomenal; I don't think this can be denied. But this preoccupation with others getting a tow is not doing the kid any favors. And about gpone as a source, haha, I agree, not always the most unbias, eh. However, its now reported in other outlets, and its basically the same thing, Stoner was annoyed at Karel seeking a tow, so he prevented it by brake checking.



As you point out, the argument here isn't the moral merits of somebody seeking a tow. I really wish he could just get on with it. The guy is so amazing, why tarnish it with being a jerk sometimes. The kid seems to have just about everything else in order and sees things fairly decent, except this anal preoccupation with tows.



Karel is a rookie, so I can see why he would want to learn something from Casey, as he’s the fastest. I think Stoner should feel confident his secrets are safe, since even more able riders like Spies, Rossi, Dovi, Lorenzo, and Capirossi have stated, they see what he’s doing but just can’t replicate it.









Squiz, closing the throttle is deliberate. Its ramming in reverse. No jumping to judgment, as the incident was reported as causing contact. Closing the throttle is the 'causing' part the 'result' was contact. What's hard to understand about that? The quote reads: "the collision a result of Abraham trying to get a tow from Stoner, and Stoner backing off the throttle to prevent him from doing so"; that is, the collision was caused not by a rider seeking a tow, but the reaction of the annoyed rider deliberately brake checking to prevent it.



Karel was 'actually there' or do you want to 'reserve judgment' until somebody else says it? You just said Karel wanted to see what Stoner is doing, is that dangerous? Then you say Stoner slowed down to prevent it, is this blocking dangerous? It is if its abrupt enough to cause contact. You may not rush to judgement, but then once you get the facts, you say this is a "mountain out of a molehill", is that not a judgement? The difference is, your 'judgement' is contending, its not big deal. Well Karel thought it was, enough to go confront Stoner. I don't think you get it, the justification here is that Stoner has some moral right because he doesn't want others to get a tow. That's fine, nobody wants to give away their secrets, but that does not give somebody the right to chop the throttle and endanger the other riders. Do you see the difference? How about Casey just runs wide to avoid people stealing his secrets (as if others can replicate his fast pace).



Casey's actions are extreme overreactions. You guys glossing it over means you don't really seem to understand that these kinds of actions can actually cause injury. Its one thing to wave your disgust, its quite another to cause interruptions using your bike. And the 'tow' is the least benign of these, as Stoner would be in the front, free to run his lines.



This doesn't say anything about Stoner being fast and capable, it does say something about his ability to cope with minor pesky annoyances by reaction in dangerous ways or overreacting verbal outbursts.

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chopperman said:

Yeah, after mocking rossi for it appears casey isn't even man enough to do that !

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Jumkie said:

Lets sweep Stoner's antics under the rug.

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michaelm said:

He very obviously needs to get over himself on this issue; he can stick to his guns on the safety issue part of it where he imo has a legitimate case, but his reactions are not doing him or anyone else any favours, and are not having any effect in stopping the behaviour in others anyway. If people like nicky, and karel abraham for that matter who seems to be unexceptionable in his behaviour in general and is impressively hard charging, are complaining then stoner has a problem.



That said, entirely my personal opinion of his mind set is that he whilst he (understandably in my view ) has something of a persecution complex, he tends to be consistent on any given issue, and from the description of the incident this was pretty much the reverse of previous incidents for which he has been criticised, and he was perhaps deliberately (which I know makes it worse) making this point.



As you say in your earlier post (although I can think of a few who might disagree) he does everything else right, including riding etiquette during actual races where he is imo among the most scrupulous, so he should stop as kropotkin aptly put it after the nicky incident "being a ...." about this issue.

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Jumkie said:

Friz, Mike, u restore my hope in mankind.



Ok, as Nuts said, lets talk testing. If Karel managed to improve .7, would it b safe to assume factory Duc could hav done same? Stoner mentioned HRC brought a new swing arm, is this to account for improvement? I personally think that the lack of having the stress to find the race set up aids rides to relax and notch improvements. What say u?

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Frizzle said:

I think the new tyres they tested had as much to do with the better times than anything else. More rubber down since the weekend rain as well.

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