Mugello MotoGP testing
- Thread starter Mr Squiggle
- Start date
I don,t think that there can be any argument at all over culpability.
Over here in Australia (caseyville) , anybody hitting another motorist from behind is deemed as the guilty party.
.......it's called not keeping a safe distance.
...........................argument over
Over here in Australia, road rage includes intimidatory driving such as braking/slowing in front of another driver. Road rage is a crime which carries a jail sentence.
At the moment (and presumably it is likely to remain so) we only have stoner's word against abraham's, there is no video footage and there do not appear to be independent witnesses. Hence it is difficult to know whether stoner's actions in this incident are defensible or not; on his past record he admittedly is the one who gets upset about such things, but I don't know that he tells lies about them.
His contention is that he did not baulk abraham, but having had his lap ruined pulled out of a fast lap. If so, abraham being upset about this is exactly what you guys have been criticising stoner for over the last several months. Having an angle from which to attack stoner would seem to be the issue rather than any principle or reasoned position. Why follow/seek a tow from a rider in testing anyway? This is a new one on me, although there was not such coverage of testing in the past; abraham seems to be the one who engaged in unusual behaviour.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Like the Bopper acceptable Laguna brake check
The Laguna "brake check" was at least debatable....everyone got to view it and could form an opinion (usually somewhat biased according to which rider you support). Seems like Stoner in this instance was condemned by certain people on here based on heresay, speculation and conjecture in this particular incident without any solid evidence whatsoever....guilty until proven innocent seemed to be the order of the day. There were even some ......s on crash.net saying Stoner "rammed" into KA when in fact the opposite had occurred
The Laguna "brake check" was at least debatable....everyone got to view it and could form an opinion (usually somewhat biased according to which rider you support). Seems like Stoner in this instance was condemned by certain people on here based on heresay, speculation and conjecture in this particular incident without any solid evidence whatsoever....guilty until proven innocent seemed to be the order of the day. There were even some ......s on crash.net saying Stoner "rammed" into KA when in fact the opposite had occurred
The laguna seca "brake test" was in a race, during which the onus is definitely on the following rider and the rider in front can choose whichever line he sees fit. Stoner said straight away that the mistake was his, but did point out he could have just crashed into rossi and no blame could really have been attached to him, in counterpoint to talpa's parallel universe view and other incidents in the race.
The more I think about the abraham incident (as reported anyway) the more I wonder what the hell abraham was doing given that it was testing and not even practice. He obviously can't have been looking to improve his lines for the race since that had already had been contested. Even setting a good time to impress his employer would seem superfluous given that his employer is his father, not that he hasn't proved he is worth a place in the field regardless of this. If it was purely for personal vanity I can't see that stoner is obliged to co-operate, particularly since he has made it abundantly clear he does not wish to collaborate with such things, or at least not uninvited.
I haven't seen the incident with Stoner and Karel so I can't really comment on it. I was simply pointing out the elephant that was missed in Bunyip's post when telling about the law from caseyville.
As for the Leguna race, whether there was a brake check or not who knows? I didn't think there was but how can I tell without looking at the telemtry. Whatever it was cannot be called road rage.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Me either but if Johnny cash is to be taken seriously Stoner should just have straight out decked him, I mean whoever of "a boy named Carol" ....... and we know that Johnny said "life ain't easy for a boy named Sue".
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Stoner had made some rather uncomplimentary remarks pre-season (totally unjustified as it turns out IMO) regarding KA's place on the grid. Stoner had also put a rather hard pass on him during QP/FP for the French Grand Prix I think (or was it Estoril - not sure) so due to this history he is obviously not a Casey fan....in Casey's defense, however he has recently stated he has been impressed with KA's progress and results on the Duke this year - perhaps an admission he was wrong in his initial judgement of his worthiness to be racing in this class.
Given that history and knowing how much Stoner enjoys people getting a tow from him, Karel's motivation could have simply been to annoy Stoner and the "baulk", "slow down", "brake check" "decelleration" or whatever you wish to call it in retaliation has caused a collision....this demonstrates the danger involved with this type of behaviour and yet race direction has seen fit to let it slide......again.
The thing that really annoys me, however is that some incredible lap times were set during this test by both Casey and Simo but yet again this aspect was neglected in favour of an isolated incident involving some form of controversy that gets people talking about everything except the exceptional lap times performed by the HRC riders and the numerous other aspects worthy of discussion.
Hard for the stewards to take action in this particular instance given that there was no video footage, there were no witnesses and afaik know no complaint to the stewards from either rider. The fact that stoner's complaints in this matter do have a basis in reality in that there is actual danger involved is often conveniently ignored though as you say.
I guess I was implying that abraham may have tried to deliberately annoy stoner but I had forgotten he had any motive; I did see the practice pass and whilst unnecessary as I said at the time I don't think it merited reprisal. It is hard to let stoner off for any pre-season criticism though even if he was voicing the common and now proven incorrect view at the time; there is no good reason to belittle a future competitor who has never offered any offence.
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