Mugello MotoGP testing

Jumkie said:

With all due respect, i believe u just issued ur opinion. Was it with "facts"? U say Stoner should get over it, get over what? R u formulating an opinion without facts? So u must know the incident was benign?



Lets for a moment believe Karel that Casey 'intentionally' made contact to buzz Karel in hopes of sending a message. That is, Casey intentionally turned into him. To be sure, something dangerous on a hot track. Should Karel drop it? Thats what ur say right? Should we believe him?



Stoner usually gets very upset when riders "balk" him or seek a tow according to him (its documented, right?) So it would be odd for him not to be first to voice disgust (though it looks like Karel wasnt going to wait around for Stoner to wait for a mic to voice his opinion). Now if ur wondering who can judge "intent". Well, Stoner has had no problem accusing other riders of "intentionally" balking him or getting a tow from him. So it will be interesting to hear those who defended Stoner by saying he (Stoner) really didnt 'mean' to say (what was rather clear terms in another incident) to hear their take on Karel's perception of what was "intentional." So on one hand we have Stoner saying for example, Nicky "intentionally" balked him, and now Karel saying Stoner actually made contact "intentionally". (Which i shouldnt hav to explain which is worse). But i will, turning into a rider to make whatever point IS infinitely worse. Now before u write off not knowing facts, let me bring up another interesting 'fact' with video to boot. Stoner tried to interrupt Nicky for at least half a lap after what he thought was a some mild offense (highly debatable, but not in Stoner's mind). So i'd speculate, it seems the 'hand wave' (or seat tap) & for that matter, 'shoulder tap' is no longer enuf for Stoner. If we are to believe the report (not sure what "facts" r in question here, but perhaps Stoners opinion on Nicky were all made up too since it also came from mere media report). I'd b interested to hear what Kropo can get from Karel (body language and his 'interpretation' included...) about the incident. I dont personally know Karel any better than i know Stoner, though i think Stoner has been increasingly involved in these types of incidents. Here is an 'opinion'. From afar Karel seems to b a decent kid without the demostrative intensity of Stoner. Now if Karel felt the incident needing immediate redress, then i'd b interested to know a bit more about why.

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With all due respect...isn't this just your opinion too???

Nino said:

No one seems to get on well with Stoner apart from Lorenzo...and that won't last much longer if Lorenzo keeps beating him.

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Now wouldn't it be really funny if St Lollo the self appointed prophet on what is safe or unsafe on track would call for both CS and Simo ro sit out a race or respectively a pracise session for unsafe behaviour

Nino said:

No one seems to get on well with Stoner apart from Lorenzo...and that won't last much longer if Lorenzo keeps beating him.

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Now wouldn't it be really funny if St Lollo the self appointed prophet on what is safe or unsafe on track would call for both CS and Simo ro sit out a race or respectively a pracise session for unsafe behaviour

Hayden, De Puniet, Abraham, Simoncelli...who's next on Stoner's list? Miserable git. You'd never know he's winning the championship .

Ozbiker13 said:

With all due respect...isn't this just your opinion too???

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It is ...... but you have to remember who Jumkie is ...... he's the self elected most important person in the world

Nino said:

Hayden, De Puniet, Abraham, Simoncelli...who's next on Stoner's list? Miserable git. You'd never know he's winning the championship

.

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Some whinger called nino, from what I hear

Nino said:

No one seems to get on well with Stoner apart from Lorenzo...and that won't last much longer if Lorenzo keeps beating him.

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Which of the riders do have "many friends" in the paddock ? its racing! not pony club bad example, not some girls huggy self help group

I can just imagine the wry smile on Mick Doohans face if he ever read these posts.

DRILL said:

I can just imagine the wry smile on Mick Doohans face if he ever read these posts.

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yeah.



A few years back Mick co-commentated at PI with our TV broadcaster for the event, and he interviewed Alex Criville ( who also simultaneously interviewed MicK ) and they were having a good laugh about how they used to be whilst racing.

BarryMachine said:

Which of the riders do have "many friends" in the paddock ?

its racing! not pony club bad example, not some girls huggy self help group

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Yes it is. Someone should remind Stoner of that next time he flips out.

Ozbiker13 said:

With all due respect...isn't this just your opinion too???

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Yes. In fact I stated it. Did you see this sentence in my post: "Here is an 'opinion'."



So I say, 'here is my opinion' and your insightful post is to say, 'i posted an opinion'. I guess nothing gets past you, eh.

Nino said:

Yes it is. Someone should remind Stoner of that next time he flips out.

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Why?

As reported on motomatters.com



"the collision a result of Abraham trying to get a tow from Stoner, and Stoner backing off the throttle to prevent him from doing so"



Seems like another mountain out of a molehill scenario to me.



Its think it is silly to make pre-emptive judgements based on heresay which is what seems to happen a lot of the time on forums everywhere and why I reserved judgement until I heard from someone who was ACTUALLY THERE.....anyway Karel (who seems like a pretty level headed guy) has stated he wanted to observe what Casey was doing when Stoner went past him.....Stoner obviously slowed down to prevent him from doing so and Abraham hit him....I dont think there is any evidence of a "deliberate ramming" by Stoner - which he has emphatically denied.

Frizzle said:

I'll wait until I hear from another source or from the riders preferably.

But I will say this.

1 - What is the point of looking for a tow in a test session?

2 - What is the point of getting even remotely upset with someone looking for a tow in a test session?



If it's true, then ride the bike Casey & stop being a petulant knob. It's become a regular occurrence.

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As usual, balance post. Casey is phenomenal; I don't think this can be denied. But this preoccupation with others getting a tow is not doing the kid any favors. And about gpone as a source, haha, I agree, not always the most unbias, eh. However, its now reported in other outlets, and its basically the same thing, Stoner was annoyed at Karel seeking a tow, so he prevented it by brake checking.



As you point out, the argument here isn't the moral merits of somebody seeking a tow. I really wish he could just get on with it. The guy is so amazing, why tarnish it with being a jerk sometimes. The kid seems to have just about everything else in order and sees things fairly decent, except this anal preoccupation with tows.



Karel is a rookie, so I can see why he would want to learn something from Casey, as he’s the fastest. I think Stoner should feel confident his secrets are safe, since even more able riders like Spies, Rossi, Dovi, Lorenzo, and Capirossi have stated, they see what he’s doing but just can’t replicate it.

Mr Squiggle said:

As reported on motomatters.com



"the collision a result of Abraham trying to get a tow from Stoner, and Stoner backing off the throttle to prevent him from doing so"



Seems like another mountain out of a molehill scenario to me.



Its think it is silly to make pre-emptive judgements based on heresay which is what seems to happen a lot of the time on forums everywhere and why I reserved judgement until I heard from someone who was ACTUALLY THERE.....anyway Karel (who seems like a pretty level headed guy) has stated he wanted to observe what Casey was doing when Stoner went past him.....Stoner obviously slowed down to prevent him from doing so and Abraham hit him....I dont think there is any evidence of a "deliberate ramming" by Stoner - which he has emphatically denied.

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Squiz, closing the throttle is deliberate. Its ramming in reverse. No jumping to judgment, as the incident was reported as causing contact. Closing the throttle is the 'causing' part the 'result' was contact. What's hard to understand about that? The quote reads: "the collision a result of Abraham trying to get a tow from Stoner, and Stoner backing off the throttle to prevent him from doing so"; that is, the collision was caused not by a rider seeking a tow, but the reaction of the annoyed rider deliberately brake checking to prevent it.



Karel was 'actually there' or do you want to 'reserve judgment' until somebody else says it? You just said Karel wanted to see what Stoner is doing, is that dangerous? Then you say Stoner slowed down to prevent it, is this blocking dangerous? It is if its abrupt enough to cause contact. You may not rush to judgement, but then once you get the facts, you say this is a "mountain out of a molehill", is that not a judgement? The difference is, your 'judgement' is contending, its not big deal. Well Karel thought it was, enough to go confront Stoner. I don't think you get it, the justification here is that Stoner has some moral right because he doesn't want others to get a tow. That's fine, nobody wants to give away their secrets, but that does not give somebody the right to chop the throttle and endanger the other riders. Do you see the difference? How about Casey just runs wide to avoid people stealing his secrets (as if others can replicate his fast pace).



Casey's actions are extreme overreactions. You guys glossing it over means you don't really seem to understand that these kinds of actions can actually cause injury. Its one thing to wave your disgust, its quite another to cause interruptions using your bike. And the 'tow' is the least benign of these, as Stoner would be in the front, free to run his lines.



This doesn't say anything about Stoner being fast and capable, it does say something about his ability to cope with minor pesky annoyances by reaction in dangerous ways or overreacting verbal outbursts.

lad said:

You'd have to agree Karel deserves the ride being in the 1.48's on the duc and will hopefully be around for a while - so good on him for sticking up for himself. At the end of the day as 1 Australian commentator said on the weekend about Simoncelli's recent episodes "his mom and dad will think he's in the right, whereas the other rider's mum & dad will think they are in the right - that's just the way the world works."

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Yup, thats pretty much it



One thing i cant understand tho is why someone of caseys experiance is so bothered about a ROOKIE wanting a tow for a lap or 2 during a TEST ?

Frizzle said:

I'll wait until I hear from another source or from the riders preferably.

But I will say this.

1 - What is the point of looking for a tow in a test session?

2 - What is the point of getting even remotely upset with someone looking for a tow in a test session?



If it's true, then ride the bike Casey & stop being a petulant knob. It's become a regular occurrence.

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good points friz. i made a sililar point before reading your post

Mr Squiggle said:

As reported on motomatters.com



"the collision a result of Abraham trying to get a tow from Stoner, and Stoner backing off the throttle to prevent him from doing so"

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In other words " Brake check" !!

have to agree with jum on this one.



ok, so i get that its "annoying" to CS that people hitch a ride from him, but he's got to get over it or he is really going to get someone hurt. enough already. having said that, it gives people something to talk about.

Anyone aware of any footage/stills from the test...if so please post em up .I will be most appreciattive.

And I'll add, last time peeps defended Stoner's comments by saying he was voicing his frustration about lack of "safety". What about now, is getting a "tow" a safety concern or is brake checking to prevent the minor annoyance a "safety issue"? In addition, for those who last time tried to say Stoner was just taking an indirect dig at Rossi, does that apply here too? Maybe, since Karel is on a 'Ducati'?



Anybody can go back and check my posts as to my attitude about Stoner, or just ask Talpa, as he's labeled me a "boner". This doesn't concern Hayden, as this was done to Karel. So we can throw out the fanboy discrediting argument. Simply, Stoner needs to get a grip on this. Its not looking good for kid, and its actually starting to get dangerous for him and others. I don't see why peeps have to staunchly defend something when its clearly wrong. Frizzle is a breath of fresh air in this regard. It doesn't stop him from being a Stoner fan. So people shouldn't feel so insecure.



The racing will continue with or without our opinions, and that's all they are anyway.