Motogp Silly Season "tipping"Challenge

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Aug 9 2007, 01:56 PM) [snapback]83899[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well our series started in 1995 and has been the highest profile national series since then. Kagayama, Hodgson and Bayliss have all mae successful world championship careers after gaining BSB experience. In the same time frame Australian superbikes has produced Andrew Pitt.

Don't forget Bayliss has one, perhaps two poles and a DNF in AMA Superbike before he was drafted to replace Foggy. And Kagayama? Please, you could have picked any number of BSB riders to feature in world championship racing that would have landed greater effect.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Aug 9 2007, 03:49 PM) [snapback]83947[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Make it a capacity limit and let the manufacturers built what they want.

Ducati can build a serious GP bike so why do they need the capacity hike in Supers? Because they couldnt develop an affordable 4 cylinder road bike. They have exploited the rules in Supers for years to great effect, but I dont see why they gotta whine now. They have umpteen WSB titles, and are about to get a Gp title, so I think the 1200 rule is a joke.
But the Japs arent so bothered about WSB, so the series needs to bend over for Ducati.

Racing twins and multi's are different animals, the power characteristicsare very different, and anyone who has ridden big twins and multis will tell you this.

The percieved power difference is negatated by way the twins make their power, so to be honest, I dont see why they should have a capacity advantage. Bayliss has won races comfortably this year on the Duke without a 200cc advantage.

In the old 100cc twins versus 750 fours, Ducati lifted titles with Foggy, Corser and loadsa others, but it took somebody like Lil John or Russell to win on a four.

Pete

I'm so relieved the sanity finally returned in this thread. Thanks Pete.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Aug 9 2007, 10:07 PM) [snapback]84037[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
1. You seem to be confused between rating the quality of a nations riders and the quality of their national championship. Australia for example provides a lot of very good riders, but they all leave to cut their teeth in the World or British superbikes or go straigt to GP's. The fact that riders come from elswhere in the world to ride in BSB is testiment to how strong, significant and competative the series is.

2. Ducati did hold an advantage throughout the history of superbikes but they also monopolized the best riders (except Edwards and Lil John), and Foggy beat them quite convincingly.


Where Foggy fell on his arse was when he went to Honda to prove he could win on another bike and got his arse kicked. He went back to Ducati with his tail between his legs, saying the bike was crap, and the next year, Lil John lifted the title on the Honda.

Shame Lil John was as mad as a box of frogs, cause he was an amazing rider when he put the hoover away.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Aug 10 2007, 08:04 AM) [snapback]84089[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Where Foggy fell on his arse was when he went to Honda to prove he could win on another bike and got his arse kicked. He went back to Ducati with his tail between his legs, saying the bike was crap, and the next year, Lil John lifted the title on the Honda.

Shame Lil John was as mad as a box of frogs, cause he was an amazing rider when he put the hoover away.

Pete


I totally agree, that really made Foggy look stupid. But ultimately John was too good for WSBK (hes a gp rider after all) and although foggy wasn't adaptable, he was untouchable on his day. He had lots of days (4 years worth) so i conclude he is the best ever, even though he is my least favorite racer of all time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Aug 10 2007, 08:38 AM) [snapback]84093[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I totally agree, that really made Foggy look stupid. But ultimately John was too good for WSBK (hes a gp rider after all) and although foggy wasn't adaptable, he was untouchable on his day. He had lots of days (4 years worth) so i conclude he is the best ever, even though he is my least favorite racer of all time.



Yep the guy could ride a diesel, he could also screw up other riders heads pretty well too. Thats where Lil John had him beat, how do you play mind games with a mind like that! Foggy was an arrogant gobshite, if he could have calmed down the "I could beat Doohan" crap he would have been a lot more bearable, it's actually a bit sad that a guy of his talent and ability gets little or no respect on a bike racing forum, but, like you, I couldnt stand the guy. To the point that I would never buy a Shark helmet coz thats what he wore! And I'm not the only person to say that!

He was easily the best diesel racer of a generation, maybe of all time, and props for that. He was also so up himself, that he never gave a .... what others thought of him, so he didnt bother playing the nice guy for anyone. I doubt he'd worry what any of us think of him as a guy, and it worked for him. I still think he's a .... though......

I'm gettin worried here Tom, were agreeing on a lot these days... .....

Pete

Barry Sheene called Carl Fogarty as 'thick as pigshit and a disgrace to motorcycle racing.' I tend to agree with the great man.. Never liked Foggy.. Despite his talent and success, he was simply impossible to like.. How can you whinge, constantly, whilst winning so many world titles, it just doesnt compute..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Aug 9 2007, 05:49 PM) [snapback]83947[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Make it a capacity limit and let the manufacturers built what they want.

Ducati can build a serious GP bike so why do they need the capacity hike in Supers? Because they couldnt develop an affordable 4 cylinder road bike.

That's where you got it wrong pete. Because the 4 was the real threat against FG. They would homologate the Desmosedechi for WSB and wipe the floor with that one. They had no problems to sell the current production series (that was doubled in numbers under the negotiations), and with the current homologation rules they didn't need that many more to fulfill the rules.

As a hint of what has been going on, at the same time they got their 1200cc limit, they also agreed to raise the homologation limit to 10000, i think, for 2009. This was the guarantee that they will never enter WSB with the closest thing to a GP bike the word has seen.

But, true, their preferred engine configuration is still twin, and I for one are very happy they now seem to have established a rule set that will regulate the competetiveness after a few races, ensuring close and fair racing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Aug 10 2007, 10:44 AM) [snapback]84111[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
That's where you got it wrong pete. Because the 4 was the real threat against FG. They would homologate the Desmosedechi for WSB and wipe the floor with that one. They had no problems to sell the current production series (that was doubled in numbers under the negotiations), and with the current homologation rules they didn't need that many more to fulfill the rules.

As a hint of what has been going on, at the same time they got their 1200cc limit, they also agreed to raise the homologation limit to 10000, i think, for 2009. This was the guarantee that they will never enter WSB with the closest thing to a GP bike the word has seen.

But, true, their preferred engine configuration is still twin, and I for one are very happy they now seem to have established a rule set that will regulate the competetiveness after a few races, ensuring close and fair racing.


A Superbike desmosedeici would have been a very different animal to the GP bike. I dont honestly know what the homologation rules are just now, but I cant see how Ducati could make a road version of the current 800 or 990 at anything like the level of a GP bike. Yeah, it would have been amazing, but it wouldnt be the bike they are racing just now. I'm not saying it wasnt discussed, cause I dont know.

I still dont see why the twins need the capacity increase, I could see it if they were doing ...., but their not. It's still right up there as one of the top bikes.

I for one think a return to the old Ducati cup days is a step backwards.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Aug 8 2007, 10:15 PM) [snapback]83792[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yes, the USA seems to be the most represented nation on the grid and only one of the riders is of any significance, but its all politics so they keep getting rides


I'm hoping this was a moment of flippancy prompted by envy. There are no Americans in motogp b/c of politics. Americans are in Motogp b/c they shut up and ride. Hayden is defending World Champ, until last year you could have argued he was in for politics. Prior to the Rossi Edwards friendship and the 2 championships it produced you could have argued he was in motogp b/c of politics. Both the Roberts boys ride b/c their dad owns a team, and I'll bet they both ride for free and make their living off of sponsorship dollars.

So where's the politics. Maybe they got a look for political reasons but Americans take their lumps and keep riding. No team hopping, bitching, fit throwing, or righteous indignation. Hayden has worked his ... off to get where he is, he gets no respect. Edwards stayed in Motogp on an Aprilia and got his ... lit on fire before he found his spot. Hopkins has injured his own career staying to help develop the Suzuki 4 stroke, hopefully Kawasaki will be his salvation.

What's the beef. Contrast their careers to say Pedrosa or Melandri who showed speed early, but breakdown when the going gets tough. Crying to the media and showing no professionalism off the track. Or contrast it to Hoffman who is actually political window dressing.

You put up or shut up. You don't win a couple of races then pontificate to the media. Americans know how to stay in through street smarts and hard work. Besides maybe the Australians I can't think of any other nation who produces riders capable of handling the daily grind of a season that won't produce a championship.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Aug 11 2007, 08:01 PM) [snapback]84260[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I'm hoping this was a moment of flippancy prompted by envy. There are no Americans in motogp b/c of politics. Americans are in Motogp b/c they shut up and ride. Hayden is defending World Champ, until last year you could have argued he was in for politics. Prior to the Rossi Edwards friendship and the 2 championships it produced you could have argued he was in motogp b/c of politics. Both the Roberts boys ride b/c their dad owns a team, and I'll bet they both ride for free and make their living off of sponsorship dollars.

So where's the politics. Maybe they got a look for political reasons but Americans take their lumps and keep riding. No team hopping, bitching, fit throwing, or righteous indignation. Hayden has worked his ... off to get where he is, he gets no respect. Edwards stayed in Motogp on an Aprilia and got his ... lit on fire before he found his spot. Hopkins has injured his own career staying to help develop the Suzuki 4 stroke, hopefully Kawasaki will be his salvation.

What's the beef. Contrast their careers to say Pedrosa or Melandri who showed speed early, but breakdown when the going gets tough. Crying to the media and showing no professionalism off the track. Or contrast it to Hoffman who is actually political window dressing.

You put up or shut up. You don't win a couple of races then pontificate to the media. Americans know how to stay in through street smarts and hard work. Besides maybe the Australians I can't think of any other nation who produces riders capable of handling the daily grind of a season that won't produce a championship.


I was just making a silly comment because so may of you americans complain about the "politics" of GP racing despite the fact that only 1of the 4 US riders in the series performs up to the standard they should. You made comments about Melandri and Pedrosa but failed to mention that both of them ride significantly better than all but one of the US riders.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Duc999 @ Aug 11 2007, 03:00 PM) [snapback]84251[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yes, I agree that there will be several seats open for the taking. My Tipping for the silly season. Ant West keeps his seat. Hoffman is out. Checa is out.

The return of Gibbernau.. .just kidding.

Tamada retires...
Nakano back on bridgestones.

Ahhh... nothing like trying to bring the thread back to topic....



Thats me told eh?

Pete

I think one of themost interesting parts of Moto GP is still to come

Their'll be fireworks with Rossi and Lorenzo next season

Also 2008 Rossi's contract runs up, a move perhaps?

however I don't think it'll be to the dukes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jamie Donnelly @ Aug 12 2007, 08:47 PM) [snapback]84309[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Their'll be fireworks with Rossi and Lorenzo next season



A lot of people have decided these fireworks are gonna happen, but i very much doubt it will.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Aug 12 2007, 08:57 PM) [snapback]84311[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
A lot of people have decided these fireworks are gonna happen, but i very much doubt it will.


Only time will tell

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jamie Donnelly @ Aug 12 2007, 09:26 PM) [snapback]84320[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Only time will tell



I hope Lorenzo does rise to the challenge. Were still waiting for the Rossi vs Pedrosa fireworks.

If Lorenzo is half as egotistical as he appears, he's either gonna fight with the big boys, or dissapear!
Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Aug 12 2007, 09:58 PM) [snapback]84323[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

If Lorenzo is half as egotistical as he appears, he's either gonna fight with the big boys, or dissapear!
Pete


Lorenzo has respect though, he has publicly said about his excitement to ride alongside Rossi (who he says is the greatest ever). I think Jorge will know his place until he has the performance to back up a larger attitude.

I don't care who wins it next year, as long as it isn't an Australian.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Aug 12 2007, 10:25 PM) [snapback]84332[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I don't care who wins it next year, as long as it isn't an Australian.




Don't worry, Pedrosa is Spanish!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Aug 12 2007, 10:26 PM) [snapback]84333[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Don't worry, Pedrosa is Spanish!


Best not to make predictions, they never tend to come true, or they tend to jinx.

In that case.

STONER TO FINISH EVERY RACE NEXT YEAR IN FIRST PLACE!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Aug 12 2007, 10:28 PM) [snapback]84334[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Best not to make predictions, they never tend to come true, or they tend to jinx.

In that case.

STONER TO FINISH EVERY RACE NEXT YEAR IN FIRST PLACE!!!


Don't fall into the trap of feeling negativity towards a rider because you don't get on with some of his fans. Casey himself deserves maximum respect.