MotoGP media

MdubSTYLIE said:

You proved his point. If you really wanted to let sleeping dogs lie and not get your point across you wouldn't have attempted to insult me. Go back to your vaycay(not an insult).

Click to expand...

Read again. No insult to you at all Dub. Requesting the same consideration given to you be accorded to me. Vacation is going along swimmingly. This was a communication twixt me and Dr. M asking to accord equal non-reignition of old BS for all parties concerned. Consistent objectivity requested in civil fashion: nothing more.

Mssrs means respected gentlemen.

Peace Out.

MdubSTYLIE said:

You proved his point. If you really wanted to let sleeping dogs lie and not get your point across you wouldn't have attempted to insult me. Go back to your vaycay(not an insult).

Click to expand...

He called me Knockers. Everyone loves knockers

JohnnyKnockdown said:

He called me Knockers. Everyone loves knockers

Click to expand...

'Twas said with true affection.

Mick D said:

Conveniently this discussion is in the news ATM...

Malcolm McLaren's son to burn £5m of punk memorabilia | Music | The Guardian

Click to expand...

As I am sure you realised it was his dad I was particularly thinking of when I said it was mainly showbiz for some involved in the movement. I thought Malcolm was great btw, he was smart, energetic, had style and flair in abundance as well as a great sense of humour and I liked nearly all the bands he was involved with, including the latter ones such as Bow Wow Wow with the band from Adam and the Ants although admitting this will probably destroy any credentials I might have had as as a feminist. I even still have the record the New York Dolls made when he was briefly their manager in the original vinyl, although his attempted style/fashion makeover for them was one of his least successful.

As I said, some of the artists who were really genuine about the political aspect have never backslid, including Joe Strummer until he died and John Lydon who expressed himself better through his early music imo than he does verbally these days which I mostly find fairly turgid.

Saw your PM and appreciate your perspective. I have an issue with some residual guilt myself, I had an internet falling out with Roger over something not worth fighting about, and my impression of him is the same as yours.

Keshav said:

I have PMd you but apparently not reached you. As per requests by Mssrs Stylie a and The Knockers I would likewise request you not drag me into conversations that don't involve me if you are going to repeat nonsense tropes which I under my current agreement - cannot offer contrapoint without igniting flames I and al concerned wish to leave behind. If you want to leave all objectivity behind in order to maintain favor with the prevailing gestalt that's your business. But kindly have decency not to repeat nonsense about me to bolster your arguments. I thought you knew me better - but apparently you don't.


Happy to talk racing with you any time. Otherwise let old wounds heal and sleeping dogs lie.

Click to expand...

No, I have just decided that I won't say anything in regard to a forum matter in a PM that I wouldn't say on the forum.

Your peace offering to me in this post includes assigning me blame with your usual magnaminity, btw.

I have said all I had to say on the matter you refer to and what I posted was in the context of my discussion with Cliche, after he thanked Dr No, whom I have always found to be a straight shooter and to whom I am prepared to concede a late night gotcha moment if it occurs, for standing up to the forces of darkness ie me, which is exactly what I considered myself to be doing from my point of view, rightly or wrongly, at the start of all this.

michaelm said:

Because I am obssessive about grammar and syntax, to a large extent making my living from writing, and prone to error in those things at 3:00 am in the morning. I don't change anything material, particularly if I have been replied to.

This whole thing is an example of why I have, wisely it would seem, previously refrained from engaging in flame wars, because I would get no satisfaction from humiliating you even if I was capable of doing so, a capability I am not claiming btw.

Despite your posts mostly containing personal insults, I have directed very few at you, and in my conceit and arrogance have been amused to watch you run both sides of the argument. Telling you I was old and fat after you offered a truce was an obviously failed attempt at self-deprecation, but you chose to omit that part and sig "I am large and strong", it would seem as an example of my arrogance.

I would be happy however to go back and repeat my support for someone whom I regard as a friend (I think he might also be an English teacher btw) against him being called a whoremonger, and ironically Mdub's and JK's main beef against Keshav is exactly what you accuse me of doing to you, ie that he constantly condescends to them, although I have not as yet followed you to an entirely separate forum to continue doing so.

My politics as it happens are both similar to what they were when I was 25, and it would seem similar to yours, and it was his racism that made me particularly abhor the most recent previous conservative (EDIT Australian) prime minister, who was quite the young fascist even when he was 19 when we were contemporaries at university those several decades ago. In regard to punk you seemed to be implying that the punk musicians had sold out, although I am reluctant to draw any implications given the web you have spun from implications, mostly not intended by me, that you have drawn from my posts. I think for many of the bands it was mainly showbiz, and I have no problem with those who continue to perform 40 years later because they enjoy it. I was obviously on board with the anti-Thatcherism of course, and I don't think guys who did have genuine political convictions like John Lydon and Joe Strummer ever renounced them.

Click to expand...

Cool story bro. Please tell it again someday when its relevant.
Mike, i hate to say it but you're really monica. There is absolutely no other way of saying it. Plz keep wasting your time on me. I'm irresistible to you it seems.
For the record : for a change i read through your stuff again and pleease don't be fooled - i could rip apart this bunch of lies in a matter of seconds.
I'll just leave it at this : yeah , im the one constantly insulting you. Right
Last time I'm winding you up btw. I feel like I'm messing with the legos of an autist which is considering what I'm capable of in life a rather shallow victory .

propagandhi said:

Cool story bro. Please tell it again someday when its relevant.
Mike, i hate to say it but you're really monica. There is absolutely no other way of saying it. Plz keep wasting your time on me. I'm irresistible to you it seems.
For the record : for a change i read through your stuff again and pleease don't be fooled - i could rip apart this bunch of lies in a matter of seconds.
I'll just leave it at this : yeah , im the one constantly insulting you. Right
Last time I'm winding you up btw. I feel like I'm messing with the legos of an autist which is considering what I'm capable of in life a rather shallow victory .

Click to expand...

Perhaps oddly, I feel no need to justify to you what I am capable of, or have actually achieved, in my life, and as I said in my previous post having some working knowledge of all 3 of the disciplines of psychology, psychiatry and neurology at least am sufficiently informed not to apply terms from those disciplines to people I don't know and have never met on internet forums.

I am done with boring the forum with all this, and do regret genuinely regret the flame war, not because I am in any way intimidated by you but because it was stupid and immature to engage in one, given as I said I don't actually think you are stupid, or particularly malicious for that matter.

michaelm said:

I was obviously on board with the anti-Thatcherism of course, and I don't think guys who did have genuine political convictions like John Lydon and Joe Strummer ever renounced them.

Click to expand...

Coming, seeming like you, to the British punk movement of '76-77 from the proto-punk perspective of Lou Reed, Iggy, and the NY Dolls, I see several distinct sides of that era: A revival of the rock & roll ethos diluted by progressive and glam rock; a voice for a political movement which had genuine concerns in England of the day; a rejection of the mores of the day reflected in fashion and lifestyle; and finally the need of British youth of the day to establish their own place in the world and delineate themselves from their parents and the previous hippy generation.

The problem was that only a truly insane person could indulge the 'true' punk persona for a decade or more. Even Stummer found this out after the implosion of the Clash left him physically and, especially, emotionally floundering for the better part of a decade. True, Joe never lost his moral compass and his rebirth and subsequent creativity reflect that, but the truth about Brit punk of '76-'77 is that is was a moment in time, not unlike the Summer of Love; a brief, intense flare of light, sound, and fury which was ultimately unsustainable by any of the actors involved.

I offered you peace multiple times mr. "I don't brag and label but let me casually mention i have working knowledge in those 3 areas and dunning ............. KRUGER if i see fit". Either you do really think I'm too stupid to realize all you do is insult and label me and then suck up to me OR......... Please don't. I like it with teeth
Once again,it's cool. I just genuinely don't see why you can't just stand behind what you say.

this time for real, peace out mikey. It was truly a pleasure

michaelm said:

No, I have just decided that I won't say anything in regard to a forum matter in a PM that I wouldn't say on the forum.

Your peace offering to me in this post includes assigning me blame with your usual magnaminity, btw.

I have said all I had to say on the matter you refer to and what I posted was in the context of my discussion with Cliche, after he thanked Dr No, whom I have always found to be a straight shooter and to whom I am prepared to concede a late night gotcha moment if it occurs, for standing up to the forces of darkness ie me, which is exactly what I considered myself to be doing from my point of view, rightly or wrongly, at the start of all this.

Click to expand...

Perhaps I could rephrase my message. I didn't mean to imply you'd intentionally tried to do me wrong. I felt rather you unintentionally put me in an awkward position by revisiting issues better left in the past and that you were giving your seal of approval to issues I've vowed not to refute and that it was odd you would seem to choose now to take sides after sitting for the most part silently on the fence. Timing seemed inexplicable.

Mick D said:

Coming, seeming like you, to the British punk movement of '76-77 from the proto-punk perspective of Lou Reed, Iggy, and the NY Dolls, I see several distinct sides of that era: A revival of the rock & roll ethos diluted by progressive and glam rock; a voice for a political movement which had genuine concerns in England of the day; a rejection of the mores of the day reflected in fashion and lifestyle; and finally the need of British youth of the day to establish their own place in the world and delineate themselves from their parents and the previous hippy generation.

The problem was that only a truly insane person could indulge the 'true' punk persona for a decade or more. Even Stummer found this out after the implosion of the Clash left him physically and, especially, emotionally floundering for the better part of a decade. True, Joe never lost his moral compass and his rebirth and subsequent creativity reflect that, but the truth about Brit punk of '76-'77 is that is was a moment in time, not unlike the Summer of Love; a brief, intense flare of light, sound, and fury which was ultimately unsustainable by any of the actors involved.

Click to expand...

Absolutely my view, which I couldn't have expressed nearly as well, and like you I was a fan of the Dolls, Lou Reed and Iggy as well as the MC5 first, partly because of a local band in Australia inspired by those bands, but already having been a Roxy Music fan, the one "old" band most of the punk movement didn't decry. As you say it was basically the bands of the time trying to create youth music/rock & roll for their time, which was also the time of my youth. In regard to the punk persona, Sid Vicious was not exactly admirable.

I actually got to see the reformed Stooges with Iggy and James Williamson a couple of years ago as well as the remnants of the MC5 (when there were still 3 remaining) and the remnants of the New York Dolls within the last decade, having never envisaged I would ever see any of these bands in any shape or form back in the 70s.

Keshav said:

Perhaps I could rephrase my message. I didn't mean to imply you'd intentionally tried to do me wrong. I felt rather you unintentionally put me in an awkward position by revisiting issues better left in the past and that you were giving your seal of approval to issues I've vowed not to refute and that it was odd you would seem to choose now to take sides after sitting for the most part silently on the fence. Timing seemed inexplicable.

Click to expand...

Kesh I am very happy to leave this in the past, and have always enjoyed our discussions particularly when we were among the few Stoner patriots on here; I well remember a discussion with otherwise sane people about what a prick Stoner was for being riled by no stewards helping him while 5 helped Valentino after Valentino took him out at Estoril 2011.

This has all mostly been the product of a few sleepless nights consequent on me being forced to do my tax with a time limit, something I am still sufficiently careless of money to resent mightily, and confirmed for me that flame wars are not my thing.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

He called me Knockers. Everyone loves knockers

Click to expand...

That's my line!! FFS!

Mick D said:

Coming, seeming like you, to the British punk movement of '76-77 from the proto-punk perspective of Lou Reed, Iggy, and the NY Dolls, I see several distinct sides of that era: A revival of the rock & roll ethos diluted by progressive and glam rock; a voice for a political movement which had genuine concerns in England of the day; a rejection of the mores of the day reflected in fashion and lifestyle; and finally the need of British youth of the day to establish their own place in the world and delineate themselves from their parents and the previous hippy generation.

The problem was that only a truly insane person could indulge the 'true' punk persona for a decade or more. Even Stummer found this out after the implosion of the Clash left him physically and, especially, emotionally floundering for the better part of a decade. True, Joe never lost his moral compass and his rebirth and subsequent creativity reflect that, but the truth about Brit punk of '76-'77 is that is was a moment in time, not unlike the Summer of Love; a brief, intense flare of light, sound, and fury which was ultimately unsustainable by any of the actors involved.

Click to expand...

Excellent post.

Punk was exported from U.S.A. but it was also a product of its environment. I always felt that in its inception British punk was driven by protest and anger - less so the art that came out of the New York Scene and the political intent that later resonated around the Bay Area. It was reactionary, given the prevailing mood, the emergence of Thatcher and mass antipathy - but was in origin largely apolitical more so, as you say, a frustration with the staid insipid British music scene.. There was an unconscious reason that 'cat burglar' Steve Jones targeted Rod Stewart's sound check and Keith Richard's Cheyne Walk digs, or why John paraded down the Kings Road that fateful day and into '...' sporting an 'I hate Pink Floyd' T.Shirt. When it came to sacking Matlock - the official line that he listened to the Beatles was possibly reason enough too. But 'musically', the entire thing owed itself to Ann Arbor, Detroit and the pure rock'n'roll of the Dolls, the Ramones and early CBGBs. Symbolic though that 'Raw Power' - the first pure punk album imo was recorded in the back streets of London. And again, there was a reason why Jonesy played Thunders' ex Les Paul - beyond the fact that their manager McClaren simply brought it back on flight from the Big Apple. Metaphorically, he transplanted the genre into the West End of London and the 'Bloomsbury set' was his test bed.

Truth is, by late '77 punk was moribund and although great bands like Crass, The Ruts and SLF brandished the protest flag, the nihilism had consumed itself and contrary to Propagandhi's observations in his sig, the bandwagon jumpers had already diluted its nascent rage and anger and The Damned had become a comedy piece. New Wave was often accessible and blurred the lines while an injection of Patti Smith, Television and Talking Heads created a further hybrid mutation in Post Punk which was to many too clever for its own good. Astonishing to think that '78 Wire had released their second work, the excellent 'Chairs Missing' and progressive rock was back again, albeit in a different guise. Whatever, it was lost on the purists and left the neanderthals dragging their knuckles way behind and by '79 the release of 'Unknown Pleasures shifted the focus further and the axis to the north west. . So they never understood when bands such as The Clash, The Slits, The Ruts and PIL pioneered the fusion with dub/reggae...again, in the case of the Clash, as much a product of Mick Jones and Simomon's West London roots and proximity to Notting Hill as it was their friendship with Don Letts.

True punk in spirit was short lived, but it spawned so much else - that in actual fact, was infinitely and radically more interesting.

to which part of my sig would that be referring to arrab?
I don't wanna step out of line by actually adressing points,scusi.
anywho, enough history lessons. less talk, more rock. amph for everyone

propagandhi said:

to which part of my sig would that be referring to arrab?
I don't wanna step out of line by actually adressing points,scusi.

Click to expand...

The part that I hadn't noticed has now been deleted?

Arrabbiata1 said:

The part that I hadn't noticed has now been deleted?

Click to expand...

1st verse of the song. When did punk rock become so safe? When did the scene become a joke? The kids who used to live for beer and speed now want their fries and coke.


edit:glad that my homies "ehhh....but i've seen moosik and mothaboiks before you" has started this 20th century music lesson.

hey mike. i really really really like jazz/hiphop. tell me a story

propagandhi said:

anywho, enough history lessons.

Click to expand...

Why? There's nothing wrong with actually understanding the past...

Arrabbiata1 said:

Why? There's nothing wrong with actually understanding the past...

Click to expand...

thats exactly what i meant. less trivia, more examples.
cheers