Stress in MotoGP

Gaz said:

I think we are on the same side.

Once you have a title you are absolutely a target, a large target for competitors and the bitchiness that comes with success (let us be honest, when you are at the top everyone wants you to fail so they can take your spot and so on).

As you say, once you win once, then you want it more and expect it, as afterall you have been there so why not again?

The pressures will vary of course from sport to sport and likely country to country as a high profile sport in one country is not in another and as such some of the pressures vary, but as I have said to you in the past, I do not envy any top flight athlete and whilst I may get jealous of their earnings, I will and have never begrudged them earning it given what they go through.

Knowing a few people with profiles in Australia the sheer ........ that they have to put up with from media and often the general public is a disgrace, and that is before they perform on the field.

Like you, for me with CS the sheer fact that he said he would quit and did says more to me than those that threaten to quit, or those that hang around to bloody long and shows that money was not his primary focus, but enjoyment of the sport (afterall, not many could knock back HRC's offer).

Genuine question here (forum wise), but what kind of support is offered to high profile athletes post retirement?

We see a lot that dwindle off to obscurity in Australia, some get into trouble with the law, others just return to business whilst some stay involved, but I wonder what levels of support are out there post retirement

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Zero in America. It sounds pretty much the same. What you earned is what you have and lets face it, athletes don't excel at financial decision making. The worst of this is American football. Sure some of these guy make millions but a majority of them don't have enough money to cover the medical bills they will face for the rest of their lives. There is no system in place for these people. It a big problem especially when the league makes 100's of millions a year off these people.

pyeman said:

These are the kind of people who just follow whatever is popular,band wagon jumping, selfie stick buying, reality tv watching ......s,they are in every country that's why Rossi is so popular everywhere he goes.They are like sheep with no real love of the sport,they boo other riders like it's some kind of stupid ....... pantomime.If Rossi quit bike racing tomorrow and went off to formula 1 and started a new 4 wheeled team all these so called bike fans would .... off with him...here's hoping..

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People like the sport and specific riders. Get over it.
If the FIA and Dorna put 24 robots on motorcycles, would you still keep watching because you love the sport more than anything else?

synn said:

People like the sport and specific riders. Get over it.
If the FIA and Dorna put 24 robots on motorcycles, would you still keep watching because you love the sport more than anything else?

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I've been watching since the late 70's,i've liked many riders in that time,there have been riders i have disliked over the years but i would never boo any rider on the podium like they are the pantomime villain, nor have i ever seen that kind of behaviour before in around 40 years of watching ,all these ......s who boo riders because they dare to challenge their idol aren't real fans at all,the sport would be better off without scum like that,and correct me if i'm wrong, [and i'm not so you won't be],but it's only Rossi worshipping ..... in their freshly bought VR46 t shirts and their pathetic yellow wigs who are doing it,people may like the sport and specific riders of course,but do you see massed ranks of Marquez or Lorenzo or any other rider's fans come to think of it booing Rossi?the answer is, No you don't,that's because Rossi is a manipulating arsehole who incited his brain dead followers to act that way,i still wouldn't boo him though because i'm not an arsehole ,hopefully when he retires most of his brain dead support will go and get a life of their own.

synn said:

People like the sport and specific riders. Get over it.
If the FIA and Dorna put 24 robots on motorcycles, would you still keep watching because you love the sport more than anything else?

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WWE wrestling is a popular and commercially successful product.

People have always had their preferences, and that is fine, but the complete demonisation of most vaguely competitive rivals, and detraction from titles won against him, is something relatively specific to the Rossi era, although doubtless related to the nature of modern media as much as anything.

If they start to contrive results, which they haven’t done imo, then it is over as a sport. If a glorious tenth was contrived rather than earned by Rossi “for the good of the sport” although I suspect some of his fan base wouldn’t mind it would cheapen everything he has genuinely achieved.

You're extrapolating the behavior of the lowest common denominator to an entire fanbase.
I don't have to look hard to find rabid Stoner, Marquez or whatever fans. I just don't care for it.

For that matter, every sport, team or sportsperson has these lowest common denominator fans. Rossi's overall fanbase is exponentially higher, therefore his lowest common denominator fanbase is also higher.

synn said:

You're extrapolating the behavior of the lowest common denominator to an entire fanbase.
I don't have to look hard to find rabid Stoner, Marquez or whatever fans. I just don't care for it.

For that matter, every sport, team or sportsperson has these lowest common denominator fans. Rossi's overall fanbase is exponentially higher, therefore his lowest common denominator fanbase is also higher.

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We have reached our fundamental point of difference then.

I believe people are entitled not to be vilified for being good at their jobs, particularly for being the best in the world at their job in a given year, and most of Rossi’s rivals have not been allowed to enjoy any success they may have had.

As I have long said, including to you previously iirc, I in fact until recent years did only blame a ratbag element among Rossi fans, but the events of late season 2015 proved to me Rossi was not only complicit but an active participant/leader in the vilification of other riders by his fans and in fact attempts to use this for advantage. I also consider sections of the media and the management of the sport/Dorna to be complicit, for exactly the reasons you discuss, that going against Rossi/being anti-Rossi is very much unhelpful to the bottom line for anyone seeking to make money/earn a living from the sport.

michaelm said:

We have reached our fundamental point of difference then.

I believe people are entitled not to be vilified for being good at their jobs, particularly for being the best in the world at their job in a given year, and most of Rossi’s rivals have not been allowed to enjoy any success they may have had.

As I have long said, including to you previously iirc, I in fact until recent years did only blame a ratbag element among Rossi fans, but the events of late season 2015 proved to me Rossi was not only complicit but an active participant/leader in the vilification of other riders by his fans and in fact attempts to use this for advantage. I also consider sections of the media and the management of the sport/Dorna to be complicit, for exactly the reasons you discuss, that going against Rossi/being anti-Rossi is very much unhelpful to the bottom line for anyone seeking to make money/earn a living from the sport.

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What sort of fantasy world do you live in where you're not accustomed to people (especially people in a spotlight) being criticized and/or vilified? It's doesn't matter what's right or wrong... it's simply how humans are. If you're successful, some people will hate on your success. If you're popular and successful, you'll have more people that hate you. Just like many members here watch every GP press conference and read every press article specifically looking for Rossi content that they can use to justify their reason for hating him. In the grand-scheme of things, the people that hate don't have much or any influence on the people they're hating on. Anti-Rossi posts here clearly have no impact on him or how he rides his M1. The Rossi supporters that show up to the races and boo Marquez or Lorenzo do not affect the results of the races and can only impact the rider's happiness if they allow it do so. You cannot be in a spotlight and only expect to receive positive reactions from fans. Successful people often use negativity as fuel to perform even better... its a great feeling to prove your haters and your doubters wrong. Since humans tend to focus more on the negative than the positive, I could argue there is no better fuel to use as motivation than negativity.

moto vudu said:

What sort of fantasy world do you live in where you're not accustomed to people (especially people in a spotlight) being criticized and/or vilified? It's doesn't matter what's right or wrong... it's simply how humans are. If you're successful, some people will hate on your success. If you're popular and successful, you'll have more people that hate you. Just like many members here watch every GP press conference and read every press article specifically looking for Rossi content that they can use to justify their reason for hating him. In the grand-scheme of things, the people that hate don't have much or any influence on the people they're hating on. Anti-Rossi posts here clearly have no impact on him or how he rides his M1. The Rossi supporters that show up to the races and boo Marquez or Lorenzo do not affect the results of the races and can only impact the rider's happiness if they allow it do so. You cannot be in a spotlight and only expect to receive positive reactions from fans. Successful people often use negativity as fuel to perform even better... its a great feeling to prove your haters and your doubters wrong. Since humans tend to focus more on the negative than the positive, I could argue there is no better fuel to use as motivation than negativity.

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We have discussed this as nauseam.

Ask his rivals, even the incredibly tough Marc Marquez, about being booed by the spectators for the entertainment of whom they are actually risking their lives to a greater degree than in most sports. It has also clearly affected the careers, contracts etc of several absolutely top notch riders. Stoner ended up on the outer at Ducati for instance because of a completely false narrative that he had broken by Rossi, the problem must be him and not the bike because the bike had to have an advantage if he could beat Rossi on it with some frequency. Unfortunately for both you and Valentino, Rossi believed that narrative himself.

Give some parallel examples in other sports for that matter. JPS I think came up with Ali and Frazier, but few others spring to mind.

I can think of Conor McGregor in the UFC.

He is (was?) extremely popular and brought a lot of casual eyes to the UFC, who sometimes bent over backwards to accommodate him. You could say he is very Rossi like.

I am not a fan of his. I don't like his rabid fanbase or the .... that he and they say about his opponents.
But I don't particularly care about that because I am a grown ... person who knows how to separate the sport from the drama. And neither do his opponents like Nate Diaz care. As vudu said, this is the real world. Not everyone is super nice all the time and if they appear to be so, they are putting on a hell of a show.

Stoner got affected by Rossi negativity. Ok, poor him and his precious feelings.
Ask Biaggi how it turned out when he tried to break Rossi. I can think of a middle finger at 300 km/h.

synn said:

I can think of Conor McGregor in the UFC.

He is (was?) extremely popular and brought a lot of casual eyes to the UFC, who sometimes bent over backwards to accommodate him. You could say he is very Rossi like.

I am not a fan of his. I don't like his rabid fanbase or the .... that he and they say about his opponents.
But I don't particularly care about that because I am a grown ... person who knows how to separate the sport from the drama. And neither do his opponents like Nate Diaz care. As vudu said, this is the real world. Not everyone is super nice all the time and if they appear to be so, they are putting on a hell of a show.

Stoner got affected by Rossi negativity. Ok, poor him and his precious feelings.
Ask Biaggi how it turned out when he tried to break Rossi. I can think of a middle finger at 300 km/h.

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I tell you what ... its so good you are pointing out how stressed Stoner was .
Because it backs up what many are saying .... rossi only beat others who werent much chop. I mean look at it .... Stoner whooped rossi and if a stress machine like Stoner could do that .... the others, who rossi appeared good against, must have been absolutely pathetic .....

Its so good to have your wisdom and factual presentation here ....:giggle:

Oh look, they let Barbie out for her weekly 30 minutes in the courtyard again!

synn said:

I can think of Conor McGregor in the UFC.

He is (was?) extremely popular and brought a lot of casual eyes to the UFC, who sometimes bent over backwards to accommodate him. You could say he is very Rossi like.

I am not a fan of his. I don't like his rabid fanbase or the .... that he and they say about his opponents.
But I don't particularly care about that because I am a grown ... person who knows how to separate the sport from the drama. And neither do his opponents like Nate Diaz care. As vudu said, this is the real world. Not everyone is super nice all the time and if they appear to be so, they are putting on a hell of a show.

Stoner got affected by Rossi negativity. Ok, poor him and his precious feelings.
Ask Biaggi how it turned out when he tried to break Rossi. I can think of a middle finger at 300 km/h.

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Super nice like Kenny Roberts, Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan or even Gardner riding bikes that were much more of a threat than opposing riders?.

Rainey and Schwantz reputedly hated each other, but settled it on the track, having no need to enlist undiscriminating fanboys, who probably split their time between cheering crashes wearing yellow and soccer hooliganism, to aid their cause.

What exactly has Rossi proved in the last 8 years?. Persistence is all perhaps?. If he was out there for the love of the sport and the pure love of competition as I thought he was back in 2014 I would say good luck and all praise to him btw. He never needed the 10th title, which I have been expecting him to begin referring to as "the precious" for over 2 years now, to prove anything, everyone including those with whom you take issue on here recognised him as Ago's superior well before 2009. All he has done since is demonstrate feet of clay, and that having once had extraordinary talent he can still pick up the crumbs by manipulating matters to be on superior equipment, after proving uncompetitive in the 2 years during which for the first time he didn't have such equipment.

You forget that there was no social media or citizen reporting back in the golden era.
A lot of dirt that you currently read is thanks to that. If these channels existed a couple of decades ago, not to mention forums, I guarantee that a lot more have been discussed than what we currently do now.

synn said:

You forget that there was no social media or citizen reporting back in the golden era.
A lot of dirt that you currently read is thanks to that. If these channels existed a couple of decades ago, not to mention forums, I guarantee that a lot more have been discussed than what we currently do now.

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What, Kenny Roberts and Wayne Rainey, the latter so totally dignified even after being rendered paraplegic by the sport would have demonstrated on social media that they have no self respect?. Wayne Gardner and Kevin Schwantz maybe, admittedly. I can't see see any of them having handbag fights with Max Biaggi however.

You would also appear to be someone who follows UFC and considers it to be a sport. I rest my case.

michaelm said:

You would also appear to be someone who follows UFC and considers it to be a sport. I rest my case.

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When you can’t argue the topic anymore and have to resort to ad hominem, that’s when I know you’ve lost.

Rest your case. There wasn’t much of it anyway.

synn said:

When you can’t argue the topic anymore and have to resort to ad hominem, that’s when I know you’ve lost.

Rest your case. There wasn’t much of it anyway.

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No, it was exactly my point, which I have made repeatedly. GP bike racing isn't, or hasn't been anyway, WWE wrestling or UFC fighting.

Unsurprisingly your familiarity with the concept of irony is demonstrably poor also, ad hominem and the straw man logical fallacy being the main constituent of your posts from the get go.

You’re not remotely as smart as I considered you to be.

Firstly, you made the point of comparing GP racing to other sports. Secondly, you referred to another person’s example of boxing, which is a combat sport like the UFC.
Lastly, pro wrestling is scripted entertainment with an athletic component, not a sport and belongs nowhere in this discussion.

Now can you stop shifting goalposts and get back to where we were on topic, which is that social media has played a big part in how we support or antagonize sportsmen (including GP riders) compared to the previous eras?

synn said:

Ask Biaggi how it turned out when he tried to break Rossi. I can think of a middle finger at 300 km/h.

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Ask Rossi how it turned out when he tried to break Lorenzo and Marquez. 2010 and 2015 are just two that come to mind.

And yet he’s still around for another fight while Biaggi had to runaway to WSBK after even getting Rossi’s bike to mount a challenge and still failing...

Funny bringing up 2010 and 2015 though. After getting creamed for a couple of years, J.Lo needed a broken leg to get one up on Rossi in 2010 and a let’s say, accommodating compatriot in 2015 to do it again. I am sure he broke Rossi on the track like the golden era examples discussed earlier.

synn said:

You’re not remotely as smart as I considered you to be.

Firstly, you made the point of comparing GP racing to other sports. Secondly, you referred to another person’s example of boxing, which is a combat sport like the UFC.
Lastly, pro wrestling is scripted entertainment with an athletic component, not a sport and belongs nowhere in this discussion.

Now can you stop shifting goalposts and get back to where we were on topic, which is that social media has played a big part in how we support or antagonize sportsmen (including GP riders) compared to the previous eras?

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The latter is a point I made myself, and I also said motogp wasn't WWE yet. I also have a long term view independent of you that UFC is not a legitimate sport either, precisely because of the scripted rivalries, and also because like boxing which I followed in my youth and which does involve a modicum of skill I can't countenance a sport in this day of CTE in which the primary object or one of the primary objects is to concuss an opponent so badly as to prevent them continuing. Are you going to tell me results are not contrived in boxing, btw?. UFC looks similar to me, not that I watch it as I said.

You continue to make my point about you having little to offer other than ad hominem and the straw man logical fallacy btw, while my point that I expect a UFC fan to have the attitude you have to gp bike racing is more a point about your attitude and arguments than your intelligence, although if you wish to abstract/draw an implication about your own intelligence from said argument I feel no necessity to stop you.

As far as posters not being as smart as I (or they for that matter) think they are, while I thought you were having some fun without malice and satirising/providing a counterpoint to posters on here including me for being over the top about Rossi I replied in kind. You now reveal yourself to have been merely pretending to have some perspective/sense of humour about him, and have outed yourself by getting to the Valeban doctrinal stuff ie Rossi definitely winning in 2010 sans the broken leg and but for a plot in 2015, so you should perhaps not be surprised if how I respond to your posts in kind changes.