Stress in MotoGP

The Ducati was a ....... bike and Stoner did well to get away from it.
Rossi painted himself into a corner by being pushed out of Yamaha, not wanting to go back to Honda and having Ducati as the only viable option. Since we consider bios as official sources of info here, his bio tells us that around the time of his switch to Yamaha, he strongly considered a Ducati move as well and even went to Borgo Panigale, but found the team’s attitude too much Honda like, insisting they they knew better than the riders.

Show me where I have said Stoner’s championship was all Ducati.
Not “people like me”, but me, personally.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Mike, I wasn't referring to you or Gaz in that post. The people that liked your post are the obvious culprits amongst many others.
In fact you are the only Stoner fan that has ever given props to Rossi about anything.
They just surf around to find pro Stoner comments to like and attack anyone who doesn't. Im okay with passionate fans but if you find everything about your guy to be perfect and can not withstand any critique about them, than your opinion is worthless.

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Fair enough. People like Gaz, Birdman and I were major Doohan fans before Stoner ever raced as it is obvious from this post that you know, and remain so.

I never expected to have another Australian rider contending so soon after Doohan and Gardner (of whom I was also a big fan during his career if less so in his retirement) and it was the outright hatred of Stoner and ridiculous detraction from his achievements by Rossi fans that brought me to my position in regard to some of his fans, and my current view of Rossi himself resulted from the events of late season 2015 which proved him complicit with those fans imo.

I have never required you and MDub to love Stoner, even I can see why many find his personality unappealing, including him being ungracious on numerous occasions. He did however ride even difficult bikes superbly and spectacularly, and after the rookie crash in 2006 almost always rode fairly and with consideration for other riders (in races anyway) and seemed to have the respect of many of his competitors.

Your argument about him being ungracious in view of what satellite riders have to contend with is the one I find puzzling. He was a satellite rider, the only one in recent or even distant memory to attain a vaguely competitive and initially quite temporary factory ride and grab the opportunity to win a championship. To then be told he had only won because he had an unfair equipment advantage over Valentino Rossi of all people must have been particularly galling, and I can imagine few who would not have found it so in his situation. I have no problem with Valentino having always had good equipment, he earned his rides and contributed to their quality, but he didn't exactly like it when he ended up on substandard equipment himself did he?. If you want to believe the Nastro Azzurro bike crewed by the crack ex-Doohan crew all still in the employ of HRC was a satellite ride then as I am wont to say I have a nice Harbour Bridge to sell you, not that Rossi's performances on that bike weren't entirely creditable.

synn said:

The Ducati was a ....... bike and Stoner did well to get away from it.
Rossi painted himself into a corner by being pushed out of Yamaha, not wanting to go back to Honda and having Ducati as the only viable option. Since we consider bios as official sources of info here, his bio tells us that around the time of his switch to Yamaha, he strongly considered a Ducati move as well and even went to Borgo Panigale, but found the team’s attitude too much Honda like, insisting they they knew better than the riders.

Show me where I have said Stoner’s championship was all Ducati.
Not “people like me”, but me, personally.

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Rossi wasn’t pushed out at Yamaha. He had a temper tantrum and signed with Ducati. Him going back to Honda was not an option.

synn said:

Forum logic: Pedrosa has cracked and crumbled under pressure as he has never won a MotoGP championship. So has Dovi. And so did Stoner between 2007 and 2012.

Because if you don’t win the championship, you have clearly cracked under pressure.

P.s. if you run away because you can’t compete, you have not cracked under pressure.

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LOL Stoner didn't run away because he couldn't compete. He was the world champion when he quit.

And yes, Pedrosa has cracked under pressure. He crashed because of it at P.I.. Do you remember that, or even know what I am talking about? And yes Dovi has cracked several times in his career. We can start listing them, when we are ready to start listing all the rider errors because of stress. It will be fun for the entire winter. Really. :thumbs:

synn said:

Forum logic part 2: The guy who brings in the biggest merchandise sales, the guy who makes millions tune in, the guy who has more name value recognition than anyone else currently racing... is sucking up money from the series.

I hope you don’t manage the books of any company. Because that’s just terrible reasoning.

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This is another time I think that you have never been to a MotoGP race. Perhaps I am wrong. But Rossi has HIS OWN BOOTHS. The money, except for a nominal fee, goes to him. And while all the riders have their own sponsor contracts, some, like Rossi, get big motorcycle manufacturer money. Thus, someone, like, ...... I don't know, ..... Zarco, could have that factory seat and give us more competition. I would buy a Zarco hat or tea-cup or wine glass. Or a Zarco 1000 cc Yamaha special edition kill yourself in twelve seconds bike. Maybe I have.

michaelm said:

...... there being a 25 year old out there competing who is as good as Rossi was when he was 25 rather than rising 39 as he is now.

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As good? I think MM would kick the VR behind, then and now. I really liked Rossi when he went from Honda and won the 'ship on the Yami, but he wasn't racing MM or other modern talents, that is for sure. Time rolls on.

(btw, Doohan is a main reason that I am such a fan of this series. I always was around it and followed it and what-not, but he put me over the edge with this guts and skill. Without the injury, who knows. Thanks Mick.)

WOW. Sorry about the long posts. I must have winter issues. :tongue

synn said:

The Ducati was a ....... bike and Stoner did well to get away from it.
Rossi painted himself into a corner by being pushed out of Yamaha, not wanting to go back to Honda and having Ducati as the only viable option. Since we consider bios as official sources of info here, his bio tells us that around the time of his switch to Yamaha, he strongly considered a Ducati move as well and even went to Borgo Panigale, but found the team’s attitude too much Honda like, insisting they they knew better than the riders.

Show me where I have said Stoner’s championship was all Ducati.
Not “people like me”, but me, personally.

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No, but you did imply that I myself was arguing pretty much the opposite of what I was arguing about Rossi going to Ducati which was my point.

And if you don't recognise that absolutely massive hatred of and detraction from Stoner and other title winners during Rossi's career preceded rather than followed a reaction against Rossi's fans, and now Rossi himself, then you really are delusional. Similarly it is you who has seemingly come on here to take on the "Rossi haters", and who has been making posts about "forum logic" in which you generalise about members of this forum youself, so to complain about being classified with others of your "ilk" as I deliberately did in response would seem a little rich.

And Rossi wasn't forced out of Yamaha, he left because he wouldn't accept the equal status Lorenzo had earned by winning a world championship for Yamaha as Povol has said.

Rossi has his own grandstand because people are willing to pay for it. Supply and demand.
If you hate that so much, start petitioning for a Karel Abraham grandstand or whatever and see where it goes.

I have attended several races, never in a Rossi grandstand and was still surrounded by Rossi fans. I am sorry his popularity offends you.

No one is stopping you from buying Zarco T shirts either. You or anyone else. Go ahead, buy 20 and make a point or whatever.

povol said:

Rossi wasn’t pushed out at Yamaha. He had a temper tantrum and signed with Ducati. Him going back to Honda was not an option.

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After this seasons finale it's debatable on which side of the Yamaha garage the toxicity was flowing from

JohnnyKnockdown said:

After this seasons finale it's debatable on which side of the Yamaha garage the toxicity was flowing from

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Currently in Dovi’s playlist...

JohnnyKnockdown said:

After this seasons finale it's debatable on which side of the Yamaha garage the toxicity was flowing from

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A fair point.

synn said:

Rossi has his own grandstand because people are willing to pay for it. Supply and demand.
If you hate that so much, start petitioning for a Karel Abraham grandstand or whatever and see where it goes.

I have attended several races, never in a Rossi grandstand and was still surrounded by Rossi fans. I am sorry his popularity offends you.

No one is stopping you from buying Zarco T shirts either. You or anyone else. Go ahead, buy 20 and make a point or whatever.

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I have no problem with him being popular or in understanding why he became popular in the first place, a combination of ability, achievement and a certain charm.

I have long had a problem with the glory hunting element among his fandom and their attitude to other riders, particularly other excellent championship winning riders, and latterly with Rossi himself being complicit with that element among his fandom and using them to damage his competitors.

synn said:

Rossi has his own grandstand because people are willing to pay for it. Supply and demand.
If you hate that so much, start petitioning for a Karel Abraham grandstand or whatever and see where it goes.

I have attended several races, never in a Rossi grandstand and was still surrounded by Rossi fans. I am sorry his popularity offends you.

No one is stopping you from buying Zarco T shirts either. You or anyone else. Go ahead, buy 20 and make a point or whatever.

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....... ........ ...... fans who cheer crashes, boo the winner on the podium then cry on each other’s shoulder when god falls don’t offend me any more than the flys I swat while enjoying a beer on the verander. An annoyance sure but only a minor distraction from an overall enjoyable experience which this sport still is. They will mostly buzz off to some other sport some day.

Ok enough of this Rossi v Stoner who? .... it’s the past the future is Dovi v Marquez. Now that’s a rivalry without all the usual petty crap which makes for a nice change. I hope ....... can mix it up with them at some point, certainly I could pencil him in for at least one wet race win along with the obligatory Austria Ducati podium.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Racing is ....... stressful. I don't care if you are the father and it is your kid racing mx for fun. It's extremely stressful. I find a big reason why people who race for fun do it is because of the high stress. It makes mondays stress a lot easier to handle. But when you are racing for a living the stress is astronomical and can have so very strange effects on the human mind and body. I've seen people cope with these stresses in many ways. Some by being clowns, some by smiling and pretending it isn't there, some jut shut down, and others just can't cope. There is never a point when a person is satisfied monetarily that makes them content. Racers race and are ....... stressed out of their minds trying to maintain an edge over everyone else. The only thing we see is how they handle it.

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Agree with pretty much all except the highlighted although if you mean that being satisfied by the money means that they are content within the sport, than I have misinterpeted the comment.

To me a rider who is already content with their achievements (whether you, I or the gatepost feel that they could have achieved more is irrelevant as this is the rider choosing) has every right to reach a monetary point where they go enough.

BUt, if money is the driver that is a different matter as many if not all of these riders should be riding for the wins and titles before dollars (dollars being the reward not the prime reason to compete)

JohnnyKnockdown said:

After this seasons finale it's debatable on which side of the Yamaha garage the toxicity was flowing from

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IMO only, but a little from column A and a little from column B although for gut reason I feel that it shifted throughout the year.

IMO only, but started more from VR's side at the threat and results, and ended heavily from MV's side at the lack of attention he received or felt he received

I believe he was talking about Rossi and Lorenzo.
Rossi and Vinales might have had a few frictions, but nothing on the lines of the previous situation. Towards the end of the year, Rossi and Vinales were agreeing on almost everything (maybe in the face of the common threat that is Zarco, but still).

Lorenzo was toxic in the 250s and he was the same at Yamaha. Now he is demonstrating the same at Ducati.

Some people don't work well in a team environment, it's one of the things that has always baffled me about motorsports that they have these team set ups where they'll have two riders/drivers(I believe some NASCAR teams have 4 or 5 drivers, surely there's got to be some conflict in those teams lol) it will pretty much always end up with one rider being favoured over the other. A bit I liked in Michael Dunlops autobiography is that one of the reasons he left the TT Legends Honda team that everyone called him crazy for doing was that he believed the focus should have been entirely on him but maybe that's because apart from that one year he's always been a one man band with pretty much the same bunch of lads helping him.

Gaz said:

Agree with pretty much all except the highlighted although if you mean that being satisfied by the money means that they are content within the sport, than I have misinterpeted the comment.

To me a rider who is already content with their achievements (whether you, I or the gatepost feel that they could have achieved more is irrelevant as this is the rider choosing) has every right to reach a monetary point where they go enough.

BUt, if money is the driver that is a different matter as many if not all of these riders should be riding for the wins and titles before dollars (dollars being the reward not the prime reason to compete)

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What I meant was, money would never hurt the drive of an athlete but thats not entirely true. I don't think your average pro racer gets content with the money before the success. Thats what I was trying to say.

Content with ones achievements is a slippery downward slope that is the moment to retire. Of all the negative things I have said about Casey his actual retirement was not one of them. If an athlete is not enjoying himself and is having a hard time with the drive then it is time to bow out. I commend Casey for that. A saying that always sticks with me is, championships are hollow. There is nothing. Its a lifetime goal to win one and when they do, its not anything like what a person expected. A rider thinks they have hit the pinnacle and obtained their goal and everything will be easy. Its not like that. You now have a target on your back and you know it. Winning was a goal now its the expectation. From you, your fans, your team, its a lot more pressure then not being a champion. When you don't win people ask you what went wrong, instead of how the race went. People say," I can't wait to see you handle them out there." Its enough pressure to drive a person insane.

synn said:

Lorenzo was toxic in the 250s and he was the same at Yamaha. Now he is demonstrating the same at Ducati.

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Apart from not giving way to Dovisioso in the last race he was fine all year, not toxic at all from what I saw.

And I'm not even against what he did in the last race. I just don't see how the casual viewer can determine what happened there. We have no information.

Plus, his time in 250's was a long time ago. People change.

MadMax said:

Apart from not giving way to Dovisioso in the last race he was fine all year, not toxic at all from what I saw.

And I'm not even against what he did in the last race. I just don't see how the casual viewer can determine what happened there. We have no information.

Plus, his time in 250's was a long time ago. People change.

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So you can determine what you couldn't see but not determine what you could see?

I didn't see anything that led me to believe that Lorenzo was a difficult team mate this year. But, you're right, some of my opinion is based on what the riders and team were saying through the media which I should be discarding.

But, it reinforces my opinion so I hang on to it a little bit.

MdubSTYLIE said:

What I meant was, money would never hurt the drive of an athlete but thats not entirely true. I don't think your average pro racer gets content with the money before the success. Thats what I was trying to say.

Content with ones achievements is a slippery downward slope that is the moment to retire. Of all the negative things I have said about Casey his actual retirement was not one of them. If an athlete is not enjoying himself and is having a hard time with the drive then it is time to bow out. I commend Casey for that. A saying that always sticks with me is, championships are hollow. There is nothing. Its a lifetime goal to win one and when they do, its not anything like what a person expected. A rider thinks they have hit the pinnacle and obtained their goal and everything will be easy. Its not like that. You now have a target on your back and you know it. Winning was a goal now its the expectation. From you, your fans, your team, its a lot more pressure then not being a champion. When you don't win people ask you what went wrong, instead of how the race went. People say," I can't wait to see you handle them out there." Its enough pressure to drive a person insane.

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I think we are on the same side.

Once you have a title you are absolutely a target, a large target for competitors and the bitchiness that comes with success (let us be honest, when you are at the top everyone wants you to fail so they can take your spot and so on).

As you say, once you win once, then you want it more and expect it, as afterall you have been there so why not again?

The pressures will vary of course from sport to sport and likely country to country as a high profile sport in one country is not in another and as such some of the pressures vary, but as I have said to you in the past, I do not envy any top flight athlete and whilst I may get jealous of their earnings, I will and have never begrudged them earning it given what they go through.

Knowing a few people with profiles in Australia the sheer ........ that they have to put up with from media and often the general public is a disgrace, and that is before they perform on the field.

Like you, for me with CS the sheer fact that he said he would quit and did says more to me than those that threaten to quit, or those that hang around to bloody long and shows that money was not his primary focus, but enjoyment of the sport (afterall, not many could knock back HRC's offer).

Genuine question here (forum wise), but what kind of support is offered to high profile athletes post retirement?

We see a lot that dwindle off to obscurity in Australia, some get into trouble with the law, others just return to business whilst some stay involved, but I wonder what levels of support are out there post retirement

michaelm said:

I have no problem with him being popular or in understanding why he became popular in the first place, a combination of ability, achievement and a certain charm.

I have long had a problem with the glory hunting element among his fandom and their attitude to other riders, particularly other excellent championship winning riders, and latterly with Rossi himself being complicit with that element among his fandom and using them to damage his competitors.

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These are the kind of people who just follow whatever is popular,band wagon jumping, selfie stick buying, reality tv watching ......s,they are in every country that's why Rossi is so popular everywhere he goes.They are like sheep with no real love of the sport,they boo other riders like it's some kind of stupid ....... pantomime.If Rossi quit bike racing tomorrow and went off to formula 1 and started a new 4 wheeled team all these so called bike fans would .... off with him...here's hoping..