MotoGp - Gran Premio d'Italia 2017 - Spoilers

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Mike, you're much too kind. I do NOT consider my fan's experience of mixed and fluctuating emotions over Nicky's passing unique though. We have ALL felt a loss. We've all felt sorrow, anger, and the rest of it. There have been some moving reactions I have seen and read, some of the messages I've got from people privately have been humbling, showing just how much so many were affected. some of our reflections have moved me to tears as I'm sure most of us reading this have had their moment. I'll share this one with you, knowing him I don't think he will mind anyway, I got a text from a friend that said, "Nicky and his dad inspired me to believe during my darkest moments there was light at the end of the tunnel." I was privy to his ordeal, it put my own emotions in perspective. I think we all in particular grieve for Nicky's family and fiancé. I'll admit I've lost my composure, I have experienced various emotions just like anybody else here too, but I am cognizant of the fact I was just a fan. Many tributes confirmed that many people felt the same gratefulness and privilege.

As I said, being able to access the forum at the touch of a handheld device is often a curse. A flaw that I had managed to mitigate in the last year-ish, as I had purposely posted less and used my time more productively; old habits die hard. I post here for many reasons, not the least being to vent, moan, and whine; but also to express my takes on the sport as I see it, right or wrong. In my defense, most of you I consider close friends, some of which I know intimately, people of like mind, even those I may disagree with regarding the sport; so staying away from PS knowing I can interact with y'all at a click is like crack to an addict. And I'll add, I feel Nicky got cheated in many ways, was taken for granted, and under-appreciated (yes, ok, I hear those telling me to buck up a sense of perspective). To those who disagree with my opinions, the good thing is so far the chickenshit invisible hand of forum censorship has only reared its ugly head on a few cowardly occasions. I don't mind my opinions being challenged, I suspect often people just roll their eyes at my posts and move along anyway, its not a bad strategy.

Definitely agree about this place being like crack...though in my telling I feel like I just mainlined heroin posting here. Probably comes as no shock to some of you folks. A pity more people don't post here though. This place has always been a blast and I can't imagine anymore relying solely on media news reports or even the supposed critical analysis pieces from certain hack journalists who should and do know better.

I don't know if Nicky was cheated (2007 was definitely a cheating) so much as some of it was the natural outgrowth of career decisions he made. But he was under-appreciated to no end. I have a lot of historical topics on this forum I've been meaning to start and this is one of them as the more I read/learn about that 2006 season, the more I feel that it has never been put into a proper perspective. Yes the information is out there, but it's been pushed off to the back of the room in a closet. I've come a long way around on that title over the years (in large part thanks to you and this forum) because I mistakenly thought less of it because I was not looking at all of the relevant information. And there's still new stuff I'm learning about it. Something new I just found out last night was that HRC bosses were asked if the 990cc V5 that was in Nicky's bike was being used as a rolling test bed for essential internal components for the 800cc V4 and they denied this was the case before turning around and admitting it was true.

I think this is sort of going to be the eternal struggle with Nicky's legacy as a grand prix motorcycle racer. He didn't get to pick when he won his title, and it just happened to come at not the best of times because of Rossi's hegemony over the premier class up to that point, and then he got sandwiched on the other side of things by Stoner's performance the following year on the Ducati 800. The retelling of this period by those with regrettably more influence than this forum ever will have, will always focus first on Rossi losing the title at Valencia rather than considering Nicky rode a nearly perfect season and had already understood by 2006 that you do not win titles based solely on wins, but by looking at the whole of the championship rather than each race as a separate piece. I believe he lost a title in 1999 or thereabouts in one of the AMA series in spite of winning something like 7 out of 10 races because his challenger scored more points where he needed to. Only the great riders can truly look at the championship in that kind of a fashion...and while they may get grief for not winning as much as the outside world thinks they should, if they are raising the title at the end of the season instead of the then 5-time premier class champion, I'd say they did the absolute right thing. After all, that was the biggest difference between Wayne Rainey and Kevin Schwantz. Kevin wasn't able to look at the championship in those terms till 1993 whereas Wayne had that mentality always. And the other thing is, outside of Donington where he made an error, Nicky made zero mistakes in 2006. He finished in the top 5 in 14 out of 17 rounds, Brno he finished 7th and Estoril as we all know Pedrosa took him out. Think about how consistently good you had to be to finish in the top 5 in 14 out of 17 rounds. That's what great riders do.
 
LOL.
Great subject, Dr. No.. Nice work, JPSLotus. Thanks for the fun history, all.

I didn't think the Cagiva was really that competitive. I always thought that Doug and John would have done better elsewhere. Other opinions?

Not sure. When Chandler went to Cagiva he was replacing Lawson after being number 2 to Schwantz at Suzuki. I don't think it was the bike as much as Ago sidelining him (and Mladin) in favour of JKoc.
JKoc had not much choice either. He had just been sacked for blowing up the RGV250 (reported as "for pissing off sponsors). He didn't leave the Roberts Yam team on the best terms and Honda was pretty much full, Suzuki had Schwantz (who wasn't a fan).
Not to say that the Cagiva wasn't a bit of a dog, but it was podiuming regularly in an era when Mick and the NSR were so fkn dominant. I think it is telling that when Cagiva folded....there were no offers to JKoc.
 
I think it is telling that when Cagiva folded....there were no offers to JKoc.

Agree Doc.

Which is why he donned his Wilskis, I mean, his water skis. Perhaps also, he realised that he could legitimately make excuses about fish affecting his performance.

Kocinski was a ....... lunatic, but he was fast. Harking back to Foggy’s autobiography again, there are some very unfortunate but amusing accounts of his OCD tendencies, which back then, were not well understood. That aside, I consider him one current short of a fruitcake because of his psychopathic behaviour both on and off track. Not only did he alienate riders, but also practically every team that he ever rode for due to his innate, inveterate, intransigence, which like Biaggi, burnt too many bridges in the paddock. Unlike Max, he did return to GP but to little acclaim. Even in WSB, renowned for being far more laid back he managed to piss off Ducati but what he went on to achieve on the RC45 was so impressive that even Foggy had to have one. Again it was sullied by his treatment of Slight and the Sentul incident – which effectively sealed his fate with HRC…although he did later ride satellite Hondas for Pons and Kanamoto. I also remember him intentionally knocking off Crafar depriving him of a certain victory, which would have been his only win in WSB. Can’t recall where - anyone?

Recently Jumkie composed a homage to the bloke and it was refreshing to have an alternative perspective. Great rider, no doubt, but a purported train wreck of a personality. I guess he found his true calling flogging real estate to like-minded individuals in the Hollywood Hills…although shallow and superficial he certainly was not.

Complex characters often seem to struggle in this sport.

EDIT: The Crafar incident was also at Indonesia - race 2 - which is why I remember it so well. Just couldn't recollect where. Found it here... http://www.simonevans.co.uk/v-four/kocinski.htm
 
Last edited:
Sales of what pray tell? Seen any indication this one-off design is for sale??? Anyone who's been around a while knows I'm not any giant fan of Rossi, but I find it trying the way some folks automatically use him like a whipping boy when they need a justification to vent. Reminds of me of country bumpkins in some third world country who curse The Great Satan America when the cow dies or the well runs dry. If Rossi were to die tomorrow, many of the same people would be saying how he wasn't really such a bad guy after all and would be crying in their beer. Much as I don't care for his public persona, I cannot in any way stretch reality enough believe that Rossi wasn't deeply affected by the death of any fellow racer from the paddock, never mind Nicky, who he'd known and raced against week after week for more than a decade.



Ok, perhaps an assumption as I thought all his other mugello helmets have been sold as limited editions.
I wouldn't say Rossi isn't affected by the loss of Nicky either.
I'm in no way using him as a whipping boy, simply stating that in "my opinion" any ambiguity of the use of 46/69 logo should be offset by the profits going to Nicky's charities. In all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if it's done anyway.
 
Sales of what pray tell? Seen any indication this one-off design is for sale??? Anyone who's been around a while knows I'm not any giant fan of Rossi, but I find it trying the way some folks automatically use him like a whipping boy when they need a justification to vent. Reminds of me of country bumpkins in some third world country who curse The Great Satan America when the cow dies or the well runs dry. If Rossi were to die tomorrow, many of the same people would be saying how he wasn't really such a bad guy after all and would be crying in their beer. Much as I don't care for his public persona, I cannot in any way stretch reality enough believe that Rossi wasn't deeply affected by the death of any fellow racer from the paddock, never mind Nicky, who he'd known and raced against week after week for more than a decade.

I would be astonished if he sold the helmet for personal financial advantage.

I do have something of a problem with him apparently thinking the best way to honor Nicky was to place Nicky within his brand.
 
EDIT: The Crafar incident was also at Indonesia - race 2 - which is why I remember it so well. Just couldn't recollect where. Found it here... John Kocinski

Another minor link between Crafar and Kocinski: Crafar took over the RGV250 ride after they dumped JK.

I've only found 2 decent detailed photos of the RGV250, anyone fancy google/BJC/Kanting for some? VPNless net trawling isn't very fruitful in the PRC
 
No matter what we may think of Rossi in terms of ethics, morals or personality, I for one do not consider him stupid and it is for this very reason that I do not believe for one moment that he would seek to benefit financially from the tragedy.

Whilst yes, I was critical of his tribute and how/where it was placed (as I said at the time, I would prefer to see the US flag incorporated to Nicky's #69), I do also genuinely wonder if my english speaking background misinterprets the meanings of non-english speakers as often the subtlety of a message may be missed (ie. was the tieing of the numbers a form of saying always together as they were team mates?)

IMO once again, but I suspect that all of the riders who rode with or knew Nicky will be handling things in their own way and wish all of them the best with that coping mechanism
 
I've only found 2 decent detailed photos of the RGV250, anyone fancy google/BJC/Kanting for some? VPNless net trawling isn't very fruitful in the PRC

correct me if I'm wrong, but this search is what lead to the serendipitous discovery of the last ride of the Cagiva?
 
correct me if I'm wrong, but this search is what lead to the serendipitous discovery of the last ride of the Cagiva?

Yup. I think I mentioned that. Was searching for Crafar/Numata/etc + RGV250. Up popped that 1995 Big Race.
Looks like it was some sort of invitational end of year support class.
 

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top