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MotoGP: 2015 Round 11 - Brno (SPOILERS)

Big difference between riding and competing for the championship. Nicky's been "riding" for years.

Haha thats funny. I guess there is riding around getting podiums and then there is riding around on an inferior machine getting molested by spaniards....I guess that could be either of them but you get my point. No one was competing the last 2 years and if Marc goes full hgh alien again, his main competition will again be no one.
 
Good points all around. Can you imagine someone calling Hailwood or Schwantz a wimp? ....... unthinkable. No serious follower of racing would ever make such an asinine allegation.

Exactly, which is why I classify many Rossi Boppers and not serious followers of MotoGP.
 
Haha thats funny. I guess there is riding around getting podiums and then there is riding around on an inferior machine getting molested by spaniards....I guess that could be either of them but you get my point. No one was competing the last 2 years and if Marc goes full hgh alien again, his main competition will again be no one.

The point was that Rossi in particular is finding the current changes hard to live with because it looked very much like he was on track for a tenth championship and now it appears that boat has sailed. It's great to be on the podium, but when a rider has won 9 of them, you know he's hoping to make it 10 and knowing that this is highly unlikely will over time make him less motivated and take a lot of the joy out of the sport for him.
 
The point was that Rossi in particular is finding the current changes hard to live with because it looked very much like he was on track for a tenth championship and now it appears that boat has sailed. It's great to be on the podium, but when a rider has won 9 of them, you know he's hoping to make it 10 and knowing that this is highly unlikely will over time make him less motivated and take a lot of the joy out of the sport for him.

How can you say it appears the boat has sailed when he is tied for first in points? The captain is yelling all aboard but this ship has not sailed. If you think this season not ending his way will make Rossi less motivate than you really don't understand what motivates Vali.
 
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How can you say it appears the boat has sailed when he is tied for first in points? The captain is yelling all aboard but this ship has not sailed. If you think this season not ending his way will make Rossi less motivate than you really don't understand what motivates Vali.

What motivates him is the same thing that motivates all racers. It's not a question of "what motivates him". It's a question of his age and the odds against him getting another chance at the championship another season on, are shrinking. Lorenzo is younger and still improving and MM is younger still and will just get better. Not saying Rossi will just give up - but the guy is a realist and can't really believe that he's going to make another come-back in 2016. Knowing that is bound to undercut his confidence, and I don't think he'll ride with the same fervor in seasons to follow.
 
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I agree with Mdub, Rossi in my opinion still has the advantage this year and is the smartest savvy racer of the 3 contenders for the wins. I dont think his age, motivation, or anything else is a disadvantage, to the contrary, it IS his advantage, along with my particular cynical view of the series.

A few other more substantial thoughts:

Neither rider in the Yamaha garage has experienced a DNF in my estimation Lorenzo is at higher risk for one. Noticed his initial race pace is blistering to stay ahead of Marquez. While Rossi hangs around the back to see what will develop.

When the tires work for Rossi's Lorenzo is off the podium. When the tires work for Lorenzo Rossi is on the podium.

Marquez riding his bike slightly more prudently (while earlier this season was MISTAKEN for an RCV deficiency) is resulting in wins and/or smaller increments of points available for either Lorenzo or Rossi. Lorenzo has 5 wins, 4 in a row to Rossi's 2. Yet the championship is virtually tie.

Rossi's age and experience drive him to ride for points much more so than the younger rivals.

Attendee Rossi's gamble on tires did not pay off. But that was more an act of God than anything else because it stayed cooler. But note that both Lorenzo and Rossi had different tires. Rossy stayed on the podium despite the cooler conditions. Had it been hot like the previous two days I believe Rossi would have been battling for the win along with Marquez.

Silverstone is a toss up most likely it will be cool. If previous years is any indication it will be damn near arctic conditions. But also comes Aragon. A hot arid climate is usually in order. Where like Argentina the hotter conditions favor Rossi tires.

Marquez factor: not only will his form decrease the increments of points available for either of the Yamaha riders but also consider, Who do you think Marquez prefers to bully, Lorenzo or Rossi?. He's tried twice against VR resulting in crashed out, he tried to torpedo Lorenzo once and crossed out. But I suspect he is more willing to bully Lorenzo.

Motegi will be a Marcos win. Phillip Island toss up slight advantage Rossi.. Malaysia tossup. The only place I really see Lorenzo dominating might be Valencia.
This championship may come down to the first DNF between the two Yamaha riders and I think Lorenzo is more at risk for that then Rossi.

I do not underestimate the power of dorna. Lest we forget the fact he is riding a Yamaha today is exclusively because of dornas influence on the series field of play.

Regarding pressure. Of all the riders I think Rossi is the least affected by pressure. Between the three contenders Lorenzo is the most adverse to it. Marquez is simply oblivious to pressure... As are most autistic savants.

This is Rossi's championship to lose.
 
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I agree with Mdub, Rossi in my opinion still has the advantage this year and is the smartest savvy racer of the 3 contenders for the wins. I dont think his age, motivation, or anything else is a disadvantage, to the contrary, it IS his advantage, along with my particular cynical view of the series.

A few other more substantial thoughts:

Neither rider in the Yamaha garage has experienced a DNF in my estimation Lorenzo is at higher risk for one. Noticed his initial race pace is blistering to stay ahead of Marquez. While Rossi hangs around the back to see what will develop.

When the tires work for Rossi's Lorenzo is off the podium. When the tires work for Lorenzo Rossi is on the podium.

Marquez riding his bike slightly more prudently (while earlier this season was MISTAKEN for an RCV deficiency) is resulting in wins and/or smaller increments of points available for either Lorenzo or Rossi. Lorenzo has 5 wins, 4 in a row to Rossi's 2. Yet the championship is virtually tie.

Rossi's age and experience drive him to ride for points much more so than the younger rivals.

Attendee Rossi's gamble on tires did not pay off. But that was more an act of God than anything else because it stayed cooler. But note that both Lorenzo and Rossi had different tires. Rossy stayed on the podium despite the cooler conditions. Had it been hot like the previous two days I believe Rossi would have been battling for the win along with Marquez.

Silverstone is a toss up most likely it will be cool. If previous years is any indication it will be damn near arctic conditions. But also comes Aragon. A hot arid climate is usually in order. Where like Argentina the hotter conditions favor Rossi tires.

Marquez factor: not only will his form decrease the increments of points available for either of the Yamaha riders but also consider, Who do you think Marquez prefers to bully, Lorenzo or Rossi?. He's tried twice against VR resulting in crashed out, he tried to torpedo Lorenzo once and crossed out. But I suspect he is more willing to bully Lorenzo.

Motegi will be a Marcos win. Phillip Island toss up slight advantage Rossi.. Malaysia tossup. The only place I really see Lorenzo dominating might be Valencia.
This championship may come down to the first DNF between the two Yamaha riders and I think Lorenzo is more at risk for that then Rossi.

I do not underestimate the power of dorna. Lest we forget the fact he is riding a Yamaha today is exclusively because of dornas influence on the series field of play.

Regarding pressure. Of all the riders I think Rossi is the least affected by pressure. Between the three contenders Lorenzo is the most adverse to it. Marquez is simply oblivious to pressure... As are most autistic savants.

This is Rossi's championship to lose.

Thats what you get for bringing Hayseed into this Keshav. Great post Jumkie what you are saying is we are looking at an epic ending to this season regardless. The other factor is rain. That would end mr. butterworths chances if we have a couple rain rounds and marc would probably take that as and opportunity to use the track like a slip n' slide.
 
Haha thats funny. I guess there is riding around getting podiums and then there is riding around on an inferior machine getting molested by spaniards....I guess that could be either of them but you get my point. No one was competing the last 2 years and if Marc goes full hgh alien again, his main competition will again be no one.

Oh, we're back to that supposed alien .... again?

The guys who are legit aliens are far and few between.

Even though you hate him because he probably refused to give you an autograph, Stoner was legit at that level. Most guys are dependent on the equipment at hand to win (Rossi, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Marquez) Stoner's the only one who won on an impossible bike. MM has yet to do anything remotely close to that. Let me know when that happens.
 
Oh, we're back to that supposed alien .... again?

The guys who are legit aliens are far and few between.

Even though you hate him because he probably refused to give you an autograph, Stoner was legit at that level. Most guys are dependent on the equipment at hand to win (Rossi, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Marquez) Stoner's the only one who won on an impossible bike. MM has yet to do anything remotely close to that. Let me know when that happens.

Where in the flying farc did claim or disclaim any alienness besides Marc? Thats not the debate that we were having and Stoner has no relevancy on anything. But you are right CS is an alien. A no milk drinking candy loving irritated unfriendly retired ....... alien. Case closed.
 
I agree with Mdub, Rossi in my opinion still has the advantage this year and is the smartest savvy racer of the 3 contenders for the wins. I dont think his age, motivation, or anything else is a disadvantage, to the contrary, it IS his advantage, along with my particular cynical view of the series.

A few other more substantial thoughts:

Neither rider in the Yamaha garage has experienced a DNF in my estimation Lorenzo is at higher risk for one. Noticed his initial race pace is blistering to stay ahead of Marquez. While Rossi hangs around the back to see what will develop.

When the tires work for Rossi's Lorenzo is off the podium. When the tires work for Lorenzo Rossi is on the podium.

Marquez riding his bike slightly more prudently (while earlier this season was MISTAKEN for an RCV deficiency) is resulting in wins and/or smaller increments of points available for either Lorenzo or Rossi. Lorenzo has 5 wins, 4 in a row to Rossi's 2. Yet the championship is virtually tie.

Rossi's age and experience drive him to ride for points much more so than the younger rivals.

Attendee Rossi's gamble on tires did not pay off. But that was more an act of God than anything else because it stayed cooler. But note that both Lorenzo and Rossi had different tires. Rossy stayed on the podium despite the cooler conditions. Had it been hot like the previous two days I believe Rossi would have been battling for the win along with Marquez.

Silverstone is a toss up most likely it will be cool. If previous years is any indication it will be damn near arctic conditions. But also comes Aragon. A hot arid climate is usually in order. Where like Argentina the hotter conditions favor Rossi tires.

Marquez factor: not only will his form decrease the increments of points available for either of the Yamaha riders but also consider, Who do you think Marquez prefers to bully, Lorenzo or Rossi?. He's tried twice against VR resulting in crashed out, he tried to torpedo Lorenzo once and crossed out. But I suspect he is more willing to bully Lorenzo.

Motegi will be a Marcos win. Phillip Island toss up slight advantage Rossi.. Malaysia tossup. The only place I really see Lorenzo dominating might be Valencia.
This championship may come down to the first DNF between the two Yamaha riders and I think Lorenzo is more at risk for that then Rossi.

I do not underestimate the power of dorna. Lest we forget the fact he is riding a Yamaha today is exclusively because of dornas influence on the series field of play.

Regarding pressure. Of all the riders I think Rossi is the least affected by pressure. Between the three contenders Lorenzo is the most adverse to it. Marquez is simply oblivious to pressure... As are most autistic savants.

This is Rossi's championship to lose.

Brilliant post - and a superb well reasoned analysis of the races to come. I would tentatively suggest that Lorenzo may be in contention at Motegi and at PI so much is dependent upon the conditions. Also in respect of Silverstone, remember that it has been moved to the back end of August when conditions tend to be more clement than those that you have experienced in June. However, predicting the English weather is much like guessing the content an timing of Barry's next post.

Regarding this...

"Marquez riding his bike slightly more prudently (while earlier this season was MISTAKEN for an RCV deficiency)"

I absolutely agree that Marquez has tempered his style, but in respect of the Honda, he immediately stated that it wouldn't allow him to ride it in the same way as the previous year. Given that such an aggressive style is his strength, in an attempt to remain competitive he tried it anyway and it looks to have cost him his title defence.
 
I agree with Mdub, Rossi A. in my opinion still has the advantage this year and is the smartest savvy racer of the 3 contenders for the wins. I dont think his age, motivation, or anything else is a disadvantage, to the contrary, it IS his advantage, along with my particular cynical view of the series.

A few other more substantial thoughts:

C. Neither rider in the Yamaha garage has experienced a DNF in my estimation Lorenzo is at higher risk for one. Noticed his initial race pace is blistering to stay ahead of Marquez. While Rossi hangs around the back to see what will develop.


D. When the tires work for Rossi's Lorenzo is off the podium. When the tires work for Lorenzo Rossi is on the podium.


E.Marquez riding his bike slightly more prudently (while earlier this season was MISTAKEN for an RCV deficiency) is resulting in wins and/or smaller increments of points available for either Lorenzo or Rossi. Lorenzo has 5 wins, 4 in a row to Rossi's 2. Yet the championship is virtually tie.

F. Rossi's age and experience drive him to ride for points much more so than the younger rivals.

Attendee Rossi's gamble on tires did not pay off. But that was more an act of God than anything else because it stayed cooler. But note that both Lorenzo and Rossi had different tires. Rossy stayed on the podium despite the cooler conditions. Had it been hot like the previous two days I believe Rossi would have been battling for the win along with Marquez.

Silverstone is a toss up most likely it will be cool. If previous years is any indication it will be damn near arctic conditions. But also comes Aragon. A hot arid climate is usually in order. Where like Argentina the hotter conditions favor Rossi tires.

G. Marquez factor: not only will his form decrease the increments of points available for either of the Yamaha riders but also consider, Who do you think Marquez prefers to bully, Lorenzo or Rossi?. He's tried twice against VR resulting in crashed out, he tried to torpedo Lorenzo once and crossed out. But I suspect he is more willing to bully Lorenzo.

Motegi will be a Marcos win. Phillip Island toss up slight advantage Rossi.. Malaysia tossup. The only place I really see Lorenzo dominating might be Valencia.
This championship may come down to the first DNF between the two Yamaha riders and I think Lorenzo is more at risk for that then Rossi.

I do not underestimate the power of dorna. Lest we forget the fact he is riding a Yamaha today is exclusively because of dornas influence on the series field of play.

Regarding pressure. Of all the riders I think Rossi is the least affected by pressure. Between the three contenders Lorenzo is the most adverse to it. Marquez is simply oblivious to pressure... As are most autistic savants.

This is Rossi's championship to lose.

I have said earlier in the season that I'd like to see him win because it would be a great accomplishment for him at this stage in his life and it would be exciting from a purely historical perspective, but at this point I just don't see it happening. Lorenzo really seems to have the bike dialed in and has regained his Mojo. With Rossi continuing to be poor at qualifying and worse at making good starts, with the points now equal, his margin for error is razor thin.

A. Kindly elucidate. Why do you believe Rossi has the advantage?

B. I think his motivation is good thus far. What I said is that if he doesn't win the championship in 2015 - he won't be as motivated next season simply because the odds against it (for many obvious reasons) will be much increased.

C. Why would Lorenzo be more likely to suffer a DNF??? Do you know something that we all don't? I mean yes - he was riding harder at Brno - but how many engine failures have Yamaha suffered over the course of the last two seasons? Rossi's laptimes were actually pretty good once he got clear of the rubberneckers. I don't think Lorenzo is really working the engine that much harder; he's just better at qualifying and makes starts that allow him to pull away.

D. And what way is this pointing to any advantage for Rossi. This seems to point to a random factor unless one believes that the tire quality will be drastically skewed in Rossi's favor during the remaining races for this season. There's always a lot of talk about Dorna's overarching influence with the tire manufacturers, and their ability to slant the design in Rossi's favor and yet, Rossi has repeatedly had his ... handed to him by Lorenzo, Stoner and Marquez on the Bridgestones which empirically illustrates that either said influence doesn't exist or isn't very effective given that Rossi hasn't won a championship in quite some years.

E. Not really salient. If MM wins all the rest of the races this year the impact will be more negative for Rossi or Lorenzo; it will be the same for both riders.

F. Rossi's ability to improve is finite. Lorenzo's is less so. MM's is in all likliehood only going to improve over the next 5 or so years - which will cancel out any of Rossi's last-gasp chances to win another championship. He'll be on the podium again, but baring Lorenzo and MM suffering DNFs or injury, it's just not logical to believe that Rossi will make a comeback for another championship in future seasons. It's now or never.

G. Lorenzo's no ...... He may not like being out-ridden by MM - but I don't in any way believe he's ever going to be intimidated by MM. Now that he's got the bike sorted out, MM is on form - as he has been recently - and he doesn't seem inclined to engage - but waits till the last few laps and then zips by effortlessly.

Gotta say I really loved watching Lorenzo just walk away from MM at Brno. Very impressive. Overall I'd say that Lorenzo has been much more consistent than Rossi, which is why I think he's the man to put your money on for the championship this year.
 
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Point G: Lorenzo didn't mind a bit of high speed v low speed barging in Turn 1 at PI...
(and let me just repeat, what a ....... farce of a race that was...)

So I reckon it's a wash. Actually, I reckon Farquez doesn't take who he is barging into any consideration.
 
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Beat me to it Dr No. People forget that Jlo has had more argy bargy with Rossi than anyone since Gibernau. Brno 09, Motegi 10, Catalunya 09 to name but a few and as you say he was happy to go toe to toe with MM at PI, I think that was payback for Jerez.

Marquez is like any young rider coming into a class trying to make a name, they get argy bargy but quickly realise the big boys won't be intimidated like the lower classes.
 
Beat me to it Dr No. People forget that Jlo has had more argy bargy with Rossi than anyone since Gibernau. Brno 09, Motegi 10, Catalunya 09 to name but a few and as you say he was happy to go toe to toe with MM at PI, I think that was payback for Jerez.

Marquez is like any young rider coming into a class trying to make a name, they get argy bargy but quickly realise the big boys won't be intimidated like the lower classes.

He was such a deranged psychopath in 250cc he made Marc and Iannone look rather chill. Was trying to find the video of Montegi when he booted the .... out of Gayangles was it? He use to be a hammer. Now he's all butter, and when .... gets hot butter melts.

I'm hungry for some pancakes!!!
 
He was such a deranged psychopath in 250cc he made Marc and Iannone look rather chill. Was trying to find the video of Montegi when he booted the .... out of Gayangles was it? He use to be a hammer. Now he's all butter, and when .... gets hot butter melts.

I'm hungry for some pancakes!!!

Sachsenring 2005 I think, he rammed Pedrosa, who still beat him with his exhaust hanging off.

How times change.
 
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Sachsenring 2005 I think, he rammed Pedrosa, who still beat him with his exhaust hanging off.

How times change.

Haha thats not the one but that was great! I know it was montegi it was the turn before the long back straight. I'm pretty sure he was fined for it. May have even been 125's.
 
He was such a deranged psychopath in 250cc he made Marc and Iannone look rather chill. Was trying to find the video of Montegi when he booted the .... out of Gayangles was it? He use to be a hammer. Now he's all butter, and when .... gets hot butter melts.

I'm hungry for some pancakes!!!

When exactly has Jorge melted?. He fought both the 2011 and 2013 championships right out against very talented riders having great years on arguably better bikes than he had, came back from the crashes and head injuries in his rookie year to win another 37 premier class races and 2 (thus far) championships, and in 2013 incredibly rode a race fairly competitively the same week-end he fractured. and had surgical fixation of, his clavicle. Last year the early season dnfs and MM's early season dominance, on top of MM's advent prior to which he had likely thought he might be the top guy for a while, did perhaps do his head in a little but he came back very strongly from that in the second half of the year, as he has from his early season points deficit this year.

It has been argued elsewhere that MM cares more about beating Valentino than he does Jorge, and I think there might be truth in this. Valentino's problem to me is that when conditions suit Jorge can beat both him and MM, but Valentino is more chance of being beaten by MM when conditions suit him, and by both Jorge and MM when conditions don't suit him. I also think Jorge is now capable of finishing third on "Valentino's" tyre.

I agree wet races will help Valentino as has been said, and also that a single DNF for either rider for any reason may well prove decisive.
 
When exactly has Jorge melted?. He fought both the 2011 and 2013 championships right out against very talented riders having great years on arguably better bikes than he had, came back from the crashes and head injuries in his rookie year to win another 37 premier class races and 2 (thus far) championships, and in 2013 incredibly rode a race fairly competitively the same week-end he fractured. and had surgical fixation of, his clavicle. Last year the early season dnfs and MM's early season dominance, on top of MM's advent prior to which he had likely thought he might be the top guy for a while, did perhaps do his head in a little but he came back very strongly from that in the second half of the year, as he has from his early season points deficit this year.

It has been argued elsewhere that MM cares more about beating Valentino than he does Jorge, and I think there might be truth in this. Valentino's problem to me is that when conditions suit Jorge can beat both him and MM, but Valentino is more chance of being beaten by MM when conditions suit him, and by both Jorge and MM when conditions don't suit him. I also think Jorge is now capable of finishing third on "Valentino's" tyre.

I agree wet races will help Valentino as has been said, and also that a single DNF for either rider for any reason may well prove decisive.

Hey he calls himself butter I was just playin with that. But yes everything you said is true as usual, you are very wise. My point is, make him angry and he melts. He doesn't concentrate well angry. At least in the past he hasn't. I think back to watch him & 58 when I think of him melting. Valencia when jorges jewels almost went flying across the track. Gotta love the estoril press conference.

https://youtu.be/UJtK_Rf7I5I?t=13s
 

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