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I hope Maurizio accidentally slips on a rod and is "decent" enough to apologize to the public why he gotta carry a donut cushion around and walk like he just got gang ...... Nothing ever good comes out of Phillip Morris. I smoke lights at the moment. Considering boycotting them when I decide to quit smoking
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Perhaps tp make amends Stoner could hereafter wander around the pits chain smoking, and in the next press conference claim that he owes his recovery to 40 Malboros a day. He would then end up the image of health like Maurizio too! ......
This could get interesting for Stoner.
What could be better than getting Marlboro to drop Ducati by starting a war with Maurizio. After the 2010 season, Stoner goes to a new team and races against a weakened Ducati squad.
I don't think he has it in him, but I'd like to see him tell Maurizio to go to hell.
What could be better than getting Marlboro to drop Ducati by starting a war with Maurizio. After the 2010 season, Stoner goes to a new team and races against a weakened Ducati squad.
I don't think he has it in him, but I'd like to see him tell Maurizio to go to hell.
Maybe Malboro should apologise to the millions of people they have sent to their grave!
He should get out from behind his desk and put his life on the line week in week out. What a ....... He should apologise to Stoner for chasing Jorge like a school boy trying to chase his first bit of arse!
He should get out from behind his desk and put his life on the line week in week out. What a ....... He should apologise to Stoner for chasing Jorge like a school boy trying to chase his first bit of arse!
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As the ones who pay the cheques the Marlboro boys have a point. I have said all along that Casey's reputation amongst potential employers (if not fans) has been hurt by his camp's handling (or lack thereof) of the media and stakeholders during this period of (unknown) illness. He's gonna have to exceed his previous expectations upon his return to rebuild trust.
He's not asking him to apologize for getting sick. He's asking him to apologize for the way it was handled. Essentially, less than a week before the GP, Stoner told everyone involved he was gone for 3 months. It was not a team decision, it was a not a group decision. Nothing was discussed with anyone. I seriously doubt anybody here would have a job if you just said to your boss, "I'm taking 3 months off, end of discussion."
Stoner handled the situation unprofessionally and the guys who pay the bills are pissed about it. You don't hear Marlboro publicly calling for Massa to apologize for taking the rest of the F1 season off, do you? No, because it's not the issue of missing races or sponsorship duties; it's about the unprofessional way Stoner handled it.
Stoner handled the situation unprofessionally and the guys who pay the bills are pissed about it. You don't hear Marlboro publicly calling for Massa to apologize for taking the rest of the F1 season off, do you? No, because it's not the issue of missing races or sponsorship duties; it's about the unprofessional way Stoner handled it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 27 2009, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As the ones who pay the cheques the Marlboro boys have a point. I have said all along that Casey's reputation amongst potential employers (if not fans) has been hurt by his camp's handling (or lack thereof) of the media and stakeholders during this period of (unknown) illness. He's gonna have to exceed his previous expectations upon his return to rebuild trust.
If he exceeds his 2007 performances he won't have to worry much about rebuilding trust.
If he exceeds his 2007 performances he won't have to worry much about rebuilding trust.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Sep 27 2009, 02:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's not asking him to apologize for getting sick. He's asking him to apologize for the way it was handled. Essentially, less than a week before the GP, Stoner told everyone involved he was gone for 3 months. It was not a team decision, it was a not a group decision. Nothing was discussed with anyone. I seriously doubt anybody here would have a job if you just said to your boss, "I'm taking 3 months off, end of discussion."
Stoner handled the situation unprofessionally and the guys who pay the bills are pissed about it. You don't hear Marlboro publicly calling for Massa to apologize for taking the rest of the F1 season off, do you? No, because it's not the issue of missing races or sponsorship duties; it's about the unprofessional way Stoner handled it.
Actually in many jobs you probably could tender a medical certificate and not have to go into details with your employer about the exact nature of your ailment. It is possible that this might decrease your prominence in the future plans of your employer though, which may as you imply be the case with stoner; however he does have the advantage of being rather fast when in good fettle, and his absence if anything has emphasised ducati marlboro's dependence on him to be competitive.
One interpretation of events is that stoner did go with the team's medical advisors initially; as I have said previously such doctors are not inappropiately mostly orthopaedists or their ilk, which is fine if you have trauma as massa did, but just because your ailment is not due to trauma does not mean you are not crook, the opinion of the doubtless learned marlboro honcho aside. An ability to deny the impact of illness could perhaps be considered essential for a marlboro executive anyway, given the products purveyed by marlboro as has been said. If reports are correct stoner eventually sought medical advice from his own doctor in australia which surely he is entitled to do and his absence was advised by that doctor, who is someone of good repute.
Stoner handled the situation unprofessionally and the guys who pay the bills are pissed about it. You don't hear Marlboro publicly calling for Massa to apologize for taking the rest of the F1 season off, do you? No, because it's not the issue of missing races or sponsorship duties; it's about the unprofessional way Stoner handled it.
Actually in many jobs you probably could tender a medical certificate and not have to go into details with your employer about the exact nature of your ailment. It is possible that this might decrease your prominence in the future plans of your employer though, which may as you imply be the case with stoner; however he does have the advantage of being rather fast when in good fettle, and his absence if anything has emphasised ducati marlboro's dependence on him to be competitive.
One interpretation of events is that stoner did go with the team's medical advisors initially; as I have said previously such doctors are not inappropiately mostly orthopaedists or their ilk, which is fine if you have trauma as massa did, but just because your ailment is not due to trauma does not mean you are not crook, the opinion of the doubtless learned marlboro honcho aside. An ability to deny the impact of illness could perhaps be considered essential for a marlboro executive anyway, given the products purveyed by marlboro as has been said. If reports are correct stoner eventually sought medical advice from his own doctor in australia which surely he is entitled to do and his absence was advised by that doctor, who is someone of good repute.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Sep 27 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's not asking him to apologize for getting sick. He's asking him to apologize for the way it was handled. Essentially, less than a week before the GP, Stoner told everyone involved he was gone for 3 months. It was not a team decision, it was a not a group decision. Nothing was discussed with anyone. I seriously doubt anybody here would have a job if you just said to your boss, "I'm taking 3 months off, end of discussion."
Stoner handled the situation unprofessionally and the guys who pay the bills are pissed about it. You don't hear Marlboro publicly calling for Massa to apologize for taking the rest of the F1 season off, do you? No, because it's not the issue of missing races or sponsorship duties; it's about the unprofessional way Stoner handled it.
Interesting points, but see TP70's post; Malboro's behaviour has hardly been perfect either. In addition to TP70's points, such public proclamations of disdain for a rider that has brought their brand so much exposure is rather indecent in its own right.
Stoner handled the situation unprofessionally and the guys who pay the bills are pissed about it. You don't hear Marlboro publicly calling for Massa to apologize for taking the rest of the F1 season off, do you? No, because it's not the issue of missing races or sponsorship duties; it's about the unprofessional way Stoner handled it.
Interesting points, but see TP70's post; Malboro's behaviour has hardly been perfect either. In addition to TP70's points, such public proclamations of disdain for a rider that has brought their brand so much exposure is rather indecent in its own right.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Sep 27 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting points, but see TP70's post; Malboro's behaviour has hardly been perfect either.
WTF - TP's post (below) has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. We all know the pleasures and dangers of Marlboro's products but that can of worms has NOTHING to do with their motorsports sponsorship division. TP's flippant second point is just BS. Lots of decision-makers involved in the management and administrative side of motorsports cannot race - at any level. Finally, as for chasing Jorge, having a Plan B is a prudent business decision. Few (other than Rossi himself) have found fault with Yamaha's Plan Bs (Jorge & Spies) even though they employ the GOAT.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Sep 27 2009, 07:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe Malboro should apologise to the millions of people they have sent to their grave! He should get out from behind his desk and put his life on the line week in week out. What a ....... He should apologise to Stoner for chasing Jorge like a school boy trying to chase his first bit of arse!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Sep 27 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>[Ducati's] public proclamations of disdain for a rider that has brought their brand so much exposure is rather indecent in its own right.
RCV, did you read the linked article? I quote - "Ducati have publicly expressed their support for Stoner, professing their understanding of his situation, and doing their best to suppress any impression of dissent within their ranks..." The public distain came from a certain principle within the Ducati team...
WTF - TP's post (below) has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. We all know the pleasures and dangers of Marlboro's products but that can of worms has NOTHING to do with their motorsports sponsorship division. TP's flippant second point is just BS. Lots of decision-makers involved in the management and administrative side of motorsports cannot race - at any level. Finally, as for chasing Jorge, having a Plan B is a prudent business decision. Few (other than Rossi himself) have found fault with Yamaha's Plan Bs (Jorge & Spies) even though they employ the GOAT.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Sep 27 2009, 07:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe Malboro should apologise to the millions of people they have sent to their grave! He should get out from behind his desk and put his life on the line week in week out. What a ....... He should apologise to Stoner for chasing Jorge like a school boy trying to chase his first bit of arse!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Sep 27 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>[Ducati's] public proclamations of disdain for a rider that has brought their brand so much exposure is rather indecent in its own right.
RCV, did you read the linked article? I quote - "Ducati have publicly expressed their support for Stoner, professing their understanding of his situation, and doing their best to suppress any impression of dissent within their ranks..." The public distain came from a certain principle within the Ducati team...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 27 2009, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>RCV, did you read the linked article? I quote - "Ducati have publicly expressed their support for Stoner, professing their understanding of his situation, and doing their best to suppress any impression of dissent within their ranks..." The public distain came from a certain principle within the Ducati team...
Mick, did you read the article? the public dissent came from a Phillip Morris (marlboro) honcho, not a ducati principal....
i get that marlboro are annoyed that they are losing tv exposure due to CS going AWOL but i do believe that he gave them a huge bargain in terms of exposure in 2007 and 2008. considering how much they are prepared to pay for certain riders, stoner is costing them peanuts. surely they owe him an apology too? for being so tight fisted with his wages...
Mick, did you read the article? the public dissent came from a Phillip Morris (marlboro) honcho, not a ducati principal....
i get that marlboro are annoyed that they are losing tv exposure due to CS going AWOL but i do believe that he gave them a huge bargain in terms of exposure in 2007 and 2008. considering how much they are prepared to pay for certain riders, stoner is costing them peanuts. surely they owe him an apology too? for being so tight fisted with his wages...
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Who here stopped smoking Malboro when Stoner dissappeared?
Ok I'll grant you that most Rossifans either took up Malboros ( even though they never even smoked ) just because Stoner wasn't around
Given that most folks idea of cigarettes is not one of "good for your health", to see a Cig. co. exec. actively having a gripe about someone who is worried about a health problem, I think Maurizio appears a man not in control of his mind ( if he did actually have a whinge about the situation )
In reality, if true Maurizios comments have done 20 times the damage that Stoners 3 round bypass could ever do
Get real its just more sooking at Stoner, its sad that MGP has come to that but yes, when someone faster than Rossi comes along ..... I guess the constant bitching and bickering from the Rossifans, comes with the job
Ok I'll grant you that most Rossifans either took up Malboros ( even though they never even smoked ) just because Stoner wasn't around
Given that most folks idea of cigarettes is not one of "good for your health", to see a Cig. co. exec. actively having a gripe about someone who is worried about a health problem, I think Maurizio appears a man not in control of his mind ( if he did actually have a whinge about the situation )
In reality, if true Maurizios comments have done 20 times the damage that Stoners 3 round bypass could ever do
Get real its just more sooking at Stoner, its sad that MGP has come to that but yes, when someone faster than Rossi comes along ..... I guess the constant bitching and bickering from the Rossifans, comes with the job
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Sep 27 2009, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who here stopped smoking Malboro when Stoner dissappeared?
Ok I'll grant you that most Rossifans either took up Malboros ( even though they never even smoked ) just because Stoner wasn't around
Given that most folks idea of cigarettes is not one of "good for your health", to see a Cig. co. exec. actively having a gripe about someone who is worried about a health problem, I think Maurizio appears a man not in control of his mind ( if he did actually have a whinge about the situation )
In reality, if true Maurizios comments have done 20 times the damage that Stoners 3 round bypass could ever do
Get real its just more sooking at Stoner, its sad that MGP has come to that but yes, when someone faster than Rossi comes along ..... I guess the constant bitching and bickering from the Rossifans, comes with the job
So Maurizio is a rossi fan ??
Ok I'll grant you that most Rossifans either took up Malboros ( even though they never even smoked ) just because Stoner wasn't around
Given that most folks idea of cigarettes is not one of "good for your health", to see a Cig. co. exec. actively having a gripe about someone who is worried about a health problem, I think Maurizio appears a man not in control of his mind ( if he did actually have a whinge about the situation )
In reality, if true Maurizios comments have done 20 times the damage that Stoners 3 round bypass could ever do
Get real its just more sooking at Stoner, its sad that MGP has come to that but yes, when someone faster than Rossi comes along ..... I guess the constant bitching and bickering from the Rossifans, comes with the job
So Maurizio is a rossi fan ??
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Sep 27 2009, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mick, did you read the article? the public dissent came from a Phillip Morris (marlboro) honcho, not a ducati principal....
i get that marlboro are annoyed that they are losing tv exposure due to CS going AWOL but i do believe that he gave them a huge bargain in terms of exposure in 2007 and 2008. considering how much they are prepared to pay for certain riders, stoner is costing them peanuts. surely they owe him an apology too? for being so tight fisted with his wages...
Sorry Al, got off on a Ducati tangent and missed the fact that RCV was probably referring to Marlboro's motorsports sponsorship division... my bad! As to your second point CS signed his deal in '06 as an unknown quantity (coming off an unimpressive '06 Honda satellite season). He is being paid exactly what he and his agent negotiated - or are you implying that Marlboro should have unilaterally increased his salary?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Sep 27 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>... to see a Cig. co. exec. actively having a gripe about someone who is worried about a health problem, I think Maurizio appears a man not in control of his mind...
.... people he IS NOT a ciggy company exec. He is a marketing expert specializing in motorsports. He IS NOT "worried about [Stoner's] health", he is worried about an asset and that asset's handling of his "illness" which has been controversial and potentially damaging to himself and his benefactors, AND HE IS RIGHT. If CS was my employee, no matter his competency and/or expertise, red flags would be waving all over his HR dossier.
i get that marlboro are annoyed that they are losing tv exposure due to CS going AWOL but i do believe that he gave them a huge bargain in terms of exposure in 2007 and 2008. considering how much they are prepared to pay for certain riders, stoner is costing them peanuts. surely they owe him an apology too? for being so tight fisted with his wages...
Sorry Al, got off on a Ducati tangent and missed the fact that RCV was probably referring to Marlboro's motorsports sponsorship division... my bad! As to your second point CS signed his deal in '06 as an unknown quantity (coming off an unimpressive '06 Honda satellite season). He is being paid exactly what he and his agent negotiated - or are you implying that Marlboro should have unilaterally increased his salary?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Sep 27 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>... to see a Cig. co. exec. actively having a gripe about someone who is worried about a health problem, I think Maurizio appears a man not in control of his mind...
.... people he IS NOT a ciggy company exec. He is a marketing expert specializing in motorsports. He IS NOT "worried about [Stoner's] health", he is worried about an asset and that asset's handling of his "illness" which has been controversial and potentially damaging to himself and his benefactors, AND HE IS RIGHT. If CS was my employee, no matter his competency and/or expertise, red flags would be waving all over his HR dossier.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 27 2009, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry Al, got off on a Ducati tangent and missed the fact that RCV was probably referring to Marlboro's motorsports sponsorship division... my bad! As to your second point CS signed his deal in '06 as an unknown quantity (coming off an unimpressive '06 Honda satellite season). He is being paid exactly what he and his agent negotiated - or are you implying that Marlboro should have unilaterally increased his salary?
.... people he IS NOT a ciggy company exec. He is a marketing expert specializing in motorsports. He IS NOT "worried about [Stoner's] health", he is worried about an asset and that asset's handling of his "illness" which has been controversial and potentially damaging to himself and his benefactors, AND HE IS RIGHT. If CS was my employee, no matter his competency and/or expertise, red flags would be waving all over his HR dossier.
Storm in a teacup ....... no matter how much you want to make a mountain out of a molehill.
The axeing of Michelin ensured all other such commercial niceties be so
.... people he IS NOT a ciggy company exec. He is a marketing expert specializing in motorsports. He IS NOT "worried about [Stoner's] health", he is worried about an asset and that asset's handling of his "illness" which has been controversial and potentially damaging to himself and his benefactors, AND HE IS RIGHT. If CS was my employee, no matter his competency and/or expertise, red flags would be waving all over his HR dossier.
Storm in a teacup ....... no matter how much you want to make a mountain out of a molehill.
The axeing of Michelin ensured all other such commercial niceties be so
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Sep 27 2009, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Storm in a teacup
You're right here Barry... Its all mental masturbation 'til CS is back on the track... Hopefully he regains his acumen and never suffers illness again and proves the doubters, such as me, wrong... We'll know by the end of '10...
You're right here Barry... Its all mental masturbation 'til CS is back on the track... Hopefully he regains his acumen and never suffers illness again and proves the doubters, such as me, wrong... We'll know by the end of '10...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 27 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're right here Barry... Its all mental masturbation 'til CS is back on the track... Hopefully he regains his acumen and never suffers illness again and proves the doubters, such as me, wrong... We'll know by the end of '10...
If stoner comes back and is immediately on the pace, the genuine illness from which he has recovered theory will look good, and marlboro ducati (particularly marlboro it would seem) will not have enhanced their reputation as employers, which in motogp anyway is not necessarily all that good even leaving stoner aside. If he is off the pace which is unfortunately probably more likely speculation will intensify.
Regardless of whether the marlboro guy is attached to the motosport division of marlboro his business is still essentially cigarette advertising, which does not put him in a strong position to comment on the behaviour (or health) of others in my view, although I managed not to feel so concerned about the morality of all this when everything in the malboro ducati/ stoner garden was rosy in 2007. I agree about the financial matters; stoner hasn't made any complaint about this, and for all we know may be going to hrc for more money in 2011 and has refused to renew with ducati.
If he has had a severe viral infection or whatever then if the attitude of the marlboro man is a general one in the team ie if his femur isn't broken he is obviously fit to ride it is perhaps understandable he sought independent medical advice and treatment.
If stoner comes back and is immediately on the pace, the genuine illness from which he has recovered theory will look good, and marlboro ducati (particularly marlboro it would seem) will not have enhanced their reputation as employers, which in motogp anyway is not necessarily all that good even leaving stoner aside. If he is off the pace which is unfortunately probably more likely speculation will intensify.
Regardless of whether the marlboro guy is attached to the motosport division of marlboro his business is still essentially cigarette advertising, which does not put him in a strong position to comment on the behaviour (or health) of others in my view, although I managed not to feel so concerned about the morality of all this when everything in the malboro ducati/ stoner garden was rosy in 2007. I agree about the financial matters; stoner hasn't made any complaint about this, and for all we know may be going to hrc for more money in 2011 and has refused to renew with ducati.
If he has had a severe viral infection or whatever then if the attitude of the marlboro man is a general one in the team ie if his femur isn't broken he is obviously fit to ride it is perhaps understandable he sought independent medical advice and treatment.
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