Launch control SCRAPPED for 2009!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 19 2009, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>that was a long time ago and the links to prove the story were posted at the time so dont ....... start ! Do you have excessive compulsive disorder regarding your stoner infatuation ? its pretty creepy !

lighten up Rog.! ..... now I'd say you need a beer!


its ....... "waiting for race" season ........ in a few months nobody will give a damn what they remove or add from bikes ........ we'll be too busy enjoying the season again, and at the first drop of the clutch Launch control will be forgotten. Obviously half the folk on here know bugger-all about electronic suspension ...... they'll forget it again after the first corner ...... and ceramic brake pads ........ many folk thought CF was ceramic

We'll all be over it in a few months

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 19 2009, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> lighten up Rog.! ..... now I'd say you need a beer!


its ....... "waiting for race" season ........ in a few months nobody will give a damn what they remove or add from bikes ........ we'll be too busy enjoying the season again, and at the first drop of the clutch Launch control will be forgotten. Obviously half the folk on here know bugger-all about electronic suspension ...... they'll forget it again after the first corner ...... and ceramic brake pads ........ many folk thought CF was ceramic

We'll all be over it in a few months

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 18 2009, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>its ....... "waiting for race" season ........
many folk thought CF was ceramic

We'll all be over it in a few months
right on, except I'll be happy sooner - in 2 weeks when Qatar testing gets going!
So you're saying not much will change? What's ur take on electronic suspension?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 18 2009, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> lighten up Rog.! ..... now I'd say you need a beer!


its ....... "waiting for race" season ........ in a few months nobody will give a damn what they remove or add from bikes ........ we'll be too busy enjoying the season again, and at the first drop of the clutch Launch control will be forgotten. Obviously half the folk on here know bugger-all about electronic suspension ...... they'll forget it again after the first corner ...... and ceramic brake pads ........ many folk thought CF was ceramic

We'll all be over it in a few months
Well you only ever posted when stoner won so i guess we wont be seeing much of you around here soon

I actually don't see this helping Hayden at all. I think that it takes a while for Hayden to get the bike setup. If Stoner races this year I think that he is going to have the upper hand with this one. He seems like he usually sets up pretty quick out of the box.

It will be interesting to see if MOTOGP will survive all it's experiments. As far as this season goes, it's another transistion season. I think that we will see more than 4 or 5 race winners this year though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Feb 18 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The problem is not technology, the problem is the role technology plays when engines have narrow power bands. Engine capacity is still too low to provide ample low-end power without super expensive engine internals. Regardless of what technology they eliminate, only one racing line will be fast.

Elimination of electronic suspension is the real f-u to Ducati and racing fans alike. It has been widely reported that the Duc requires electronic rear suspension to make any pace. Elias was lap traffic until Ducati gave him the full spec. Furthermore, electronic suspension is one of the few technologies that might be applicable to the road riders and track-day warriors alike. Who wouldn't like the ability to adjust suspension characteristics based upon the lean angle. Electronic suspension might save a $20,000 dollar investment and a lot of pain; especially in the wet.

Electronic suspension is raising cornering speeds. They have a control tire to regulate corner speeds. Why don't they use it?!

They need to regulate the performance criteria they are trying to control. When they write complicated rules, they drive costs up, even if they write more cost-cutting rules.
I think getting rid of launch control is a no-brainer; what is the real world application and why wouldn't you leave it to the rider to work out for himself?.

For the rest of it, unsurprisingly I don't see a well thought out overall plan and as previously I think the motogp rules not being in concert with the wsbk rules is a big problem for motogp. Wsbk could end up fairly rapidly with bikes that whilst theoretically production based are both faster and higher tech than the "premier class" prototype bikes; many would argue they are already more spectacular. The engine life rule in isolation would seem to me to be likely to increase expense as the teams will increase tech to achieve this. I don't know about electronic suspension; do they all have it? As frizzle says it has never been much discussed. In wsbk last year the factory yamahas had it and the ducatis didn't, but presumably the ducati has the advantage as far as torque curves etc in wsbk.

It is possible they are trying to strong-arm/blackmail ducati if banning electronic suspension will disadvantage them selectively, because one thing I am sure ezy does really want is an rpm limit with which apparently ducati thus far will not agree. I presume though that ducati would have input regarding any decision on electronic suspension also.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 19 2009, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think getting rid of launch control is a no-brainer; what is the real world application and why wouldn't you leave it to the rider to work out for himself?.

Except it's pretty much impossible to regulate properly.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (two-stroke @ Feb 19 2009, 01:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Except it's pretty much impossible to regulate properly.
Good point, particularly with ride by wire throttles and the rest of the current electronics still in place.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 19 2009, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well you only ever posted when stoner won so i guess we wont be seeing much of you around here soon

well Rog. if that were the case ....... the reason I found to post when Stoner won, was not to boast ....... but because the whinging ( from some posters ...... who's name/s I shall withold to protect you .....) got so ridiculous

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 18 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the whinging ( from some posters ...... who's name/s I shall withold
Sounds like somebody I know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (two-stroke @ Feb 19 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Except it's pretty much impossible to regulate properly.

thats not the case

This sort of conformance checking is done in everyday life in other fields of engineering. Check out the charter of the OIML or any of their national contemporaries.

The exact same stuff has been done on measurement equipment for donkeys years.

eg. Instrument tested ( including tests aimed at picking up software conformance ), design documents forwarded and logged, instrument stripped and checked for design conformance. Software recorded. ( In the ye olde days we even used to insist on an actual circuitboard being kept for conformance check reasons ..... but sensibly photographic records came in ..... safe rooms were getting filled with tons of circuit boards, it got pretty stupid )

I never saw one case of non-conformance.

Documentation on circuits are submitted and software version submitted. In other fields usually spot checks are enough to ensure conformance.

Design changes where allowed and quite often carried out and documented and tested.

In motogp's case I seriously doubt the problem will be one of non-conformance to the design/pattern submitted. Its just a matter of hiring a few folk to do the job.



Edit: oh and before you say something dumbassed about this post Rog. ..... take 30 seconds to think about what you are saying

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slide @ Feb 19 2009, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what does the electronic suspension do?

There's so much electronics on the bikes these days that parts fall off all over the track. Stoners bike especially, cos he had SOOO much electronics! .... just look at how his cameras fall off everywhere!

Normal suspension just won't take any bumps from all those electronics parts in the middle of the track .... so you need special "electronics suspension" so you can safely run over all those bits off Stoners bike ........ oh and the occasional bit actually falls off Pedrosa ...... because he's a robot ..... and they are electronic.

And since Stoner had so much more electronics than everyone else ..... more fell off his bike ...... so in fact Stoner never actually needed the electronic suspension but everyone else did ....... in fact Stoners electronic suspension .... also fell off




ok .... not true ...... (though Rog. is probably sitting there believing every bit of it )

http://www.hardracing.com/Shocks%20&%2...amp/ECShock.htm
http://www.ohlins.com/ms/tech-solution.asp

They even have polarized oils nowaday which change characteristics when a differing magnetic field is applied.

What's next push starts?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 19 2009, 03:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What's next push starts?
I couldn't have said it any better

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 19 2009, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What's next push starts?


Yes agreed!

I think I am swaying more and more towrds giving them free-run on electronics design and control.

The banning of electronic suspension control ..... is just ludicrous.

Its a great new area of innovation and should be explored.

I think I get it now .... once MGP was all about bike,mechanics and mechanics all in one bundle. A better one of any of these three things gave the teams an advantage and hopefully the wins.

These days the fans seem to be wanting to put it down to "a rider" they want the bikes "standardised" or at least they want all the other teams "bike" and "Mechanics" advantages removed ....... MGP was never about that! and will be useless if that happens.

Bring back FIM control would be the best bet ....... take away the "funding from the fans" influence that seems to be driving things these days.



Edit: Oops Clark ...... to answer your question on my take on Esuspension ....... well frankly like most mods. in the end everybody gets the stuff if its "the goods" ...... and the top riders remain at the top no matter what equipment gets adopted.

I think Doohan used to often say ........ some riders can ride around a problem ...... some can't.

I think in this day and age of so much stuff to set up ....... only the "real good" riders are at the very top.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 19 2009, 04:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What's next push starts?
no, TC's next

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slide @ Feb 18 2009, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>will make able to swith tires in stead of a whole bike in dry to wet race, which will keep riders from losing their set-up

this is where your lack of knowledge shines through. you need a very different setup to make rain tyres work compared to slicks. its not just a case of swapping tyres and slapping in some steel disks, there is a whole lot of suspension mods needed too, up to changing spring rates etc sometimes.a wet setup is much softer (suspension and power delivery) than a dry setup, thats why you hear riders talking of the two differing from each other..

like michaelm said, what exactly is the benefit of launch control for us, the real world riders?
LC probably affects the first lap or 2 of a race until tyres and brakes are up to temp, then its redundant for the rest of the race.

ceramic brakes etc. ok, so the carbon brakes stay, but why? they are a hugely expensive component and are of zero use in the real world. moto gp is the only 2-wheeled series that uses them and the costs reflect this. Gresini gave an eg of how much it cost him per season and this is an area of big savings...?

Esuspension is vey tranferable to real world riding and this IMO was a mistake. could have benefitted us directly in the not to distant future...

so, out of 3 i give dorna/fim 1.5... an exceptional score for them!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 19 2009, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> well Rog. if that were the case ....... the reason I found to post when Stoner won, was not to boast ....... but because the whinging ( from some posters ...... who's name/s I shall withold to protect you .....) got so ridiculous
Ummm, ill have to dig out the thread if i get time. Makes for funny reading when you were called out on it. I seem to remember you saying " theres no point in posting if stoner doesn't win". Ended with most calling you a fanboy.

You can fool some people some times but you can fool all the people all of the time sung just for you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 19 2009, 02:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Edit: oh and before you say something dumbassed about this post Rog. ..... take 30 seconds to think about what you are saying
you flatter yourself that i actually read your ..... !