Launch control SCRAPPED for 2009!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 19 2009, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ummm, ill have to dig out the thread if i get time. Makes for funny reading when you were called out on it. I seem to remember you saying " theres no point in posting if stoner doesn't win". Ended with most calling you a fanboy.

I said that ! ? Show me the context and place Rog...... drag that old text out for me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 19 2009, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you flatter yourself that i actually read your ..... !

I'd rather you didn't read my posts Rog. ......... you only ever spout non-discernible crap at whatever I say ....... just as a point of interest how long did you wait,( and think about,) after you read what I wrote? .... I did suggest you wait at least 30 seconds! .... I'd guess you waited 6.32s judging from your replies.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 19 2009, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd rather you didn't read my posts Rog. ......... you only ever spout non-discernible crap at whatever I say ....... just as a point of interest how long did you wait,( and think about,) after you read what I wrote? .... I did suggest you wait at least 30 seconds! .... I'd guess you waited 6.32s judging from your replies.
Wtf are you going on about now ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 20 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wtf are you going on about now ?

31 seconds ...... well done!

Interesting; on gpone if my interpretation of machine translated italian is vaguely correct livio suppio does not seem to be complaining about the new rules. He also seems to maintain that ducati do not use launch control so perhaps my interpretation is suspect .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 19 2009, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting; on gpone if my interpretation of machine translated italian is vaguely correct livio suppio does not seem to be complaining about the new rules. He also seems to maintain that ducati do not use launch control so perhaps my interpretation is suspect .
Be interesting to see what the rossi camp has to say. Rossi is not the best at getting the bike off the line it has to be said. Will this help or hinder, the latter being my guess

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 19 2009, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Be interesting to see what the rossi camp has to say. Rossi is not the best at getting the bike off the line it has to be said. Will this help or hinder, the latter being my guess

tiss true Rossi has always been .... at the line
stoner is a good startor..so is Colin...ummm...who else?....i member KR Jr was killer at launching a bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 18 2009, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The banning of electronic suspension control ..... is just ludicrous.

Its a great new area of innovation and should be explored.
It's more than that. It's something that you can get and put on a road bike. It's something already used in production-based racing. I guess I can see how implementation cost/complexity can grow for a GP-level system, but unlike carbon brakes it has plenty of usefulness off of the track.

Yeah I get that banning Esusp. seems a bit odd. SO I am kinda thinking maybe its just an easy giveaway to placate the "hordes" who seem to be crying out to have the bikes reduced to a level they were at many years ago.

Launch control will mean bugger all hell it operates for about 3 seonds in a race then its not useful anymore ) ..... so thats a giveaway.

Ceramic brakes ...... well I would suggest that their are other materials that are up to the spec. required ..... therefore another giveaway ....... it all seems to be a token giveaway to placate the ones whinging about Electronics.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>(BarryMachine @ Feb 18 2009, 11:48 PM)
The banning of electronic suspension control ..... is just ludicrous.

Its a great new area of innovation and should be explored.

under normal circumstances yes, but the point of this exercise is to cut costs so the sport doesn't die due to the cost of competing. While i too would like to see electronic suspension explored to it fullest it's just not practical in this age of recession and economic hardship.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 18 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think getting rid of launch control is a no-brainer; what is the real world application and why wouldn't you leave it to the rider to work out for himself?.

For the rest of it, unsurprisingly I don't see a well thought out overall plan and as previously I think the motogp rules not being in concert with the wsbk rules is a big problem for motogp. Wsbk could end up fairly rapidly with bikes that whilst theoretically production based are both faster and higher tech than the "premier class" prototype bikes; many would argue they are already more spectacular. The engine life rule in isolation would seem to me to be likely to increase expense as the teams will increase tech to achieve this. I don't know about electronic suspension; do they all have it? As frizzle says it has never been much discussed. In wsbk last year the factory yamahas had it and the ducatis didn't, but presumably the ducati has the advantage as far as torque curves etc in wsbk.

It is possible they are trying to strong-arm/blackmail ducati if banning electronic suspension will disadvantage them selectively, because one thing I am sure ezy does really want is an rpm limit with which apparently ducati thus far will not agree. I presume though that ducati would have input regarding any decision on electronic suspension also.

I agree that launch control isn't much of a loss, but it's obvious it was banned to encourage passing. Rossi has bogged many a start throughout his career (as have many others). I'm sure this rule was written to mix the field up a bit and encourage passing, but if riders can't ride multiple lines, a bad start is going to be a miserable beginning to a long race.

BTW, Domencali announced publicly that Ducati would support a rev limit.

another take on the new rules

MotoGP: Too Little, Too Late?
by dean adams
Wednesday, February 18, 2009

As one former multi-time world champion (not Colin Edwards) opined this week on the subject of MotoGP: "It's run by a bunch of guys who can't do math. Sponsors keep leaving and no new sponsors come in at the same level. Yet, no one will recognize the fact that the series is upside-down as a business model."

Today's release from the FIM, addressing rule changes rumored for the last few weeks, will limit practice, ban launch control and electronic suspension, and also limit parts-changing to daily maintenance. Additionally, riders can only use five engines for the last eight races.

Are these meaningful changes? Time will tell.

One surprise pro-active rule was announced Ceramic brake systems--the cutting edge of auto racing brakes--are not allowed. Carbon-carbon brakes remain legal in MotoGP and if you have to buy them they can cost teams upwards of $300,000 per season.

Of course, whether much of these new rules will be taken seriously by the powers that be in MotoGP will be interesting to watch.

Does anyone really expect launch control to go away, or will it just be masked in a different system? How long will it be until a team devises a way to use their already very advanced GPS-enhanced engine management system to thwart the launch control rule?

Parts swapping in MotoGP will now only be done for the sake of daily maintenance. Here, again, the devil is in the details. How, exactly, will this be monitored? And how long until "new and updated" parts are installed because the old replacement parts were obsolete?

The economy in Japan is in a recession the likes of which have not been seen in 35 years, Germany and much of Europe have not experienced economic downturn like this in 20 years and the US economy hasn't reported ugly economic numbers like these since the early 1980s.

Today the ruling body of MotoGP sounds much like the high-end construction companies that speculated on acres of McMansions eighteen months ago. Back then the builders were somewhat alarmed by the market flattening and foreclosure rates but they were so busy building that they never saw the real estate crisis coming. Today they, and their creditors, own title to neighborhoods of ghost towns.

link

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 19 2009, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>tiss true Rossi has always been .... at the line
stoner is a good startor..so is Colin...ummm...who else?....i member KR Jr was killer at launching a bike.
Norick

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 20 2009, 01:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>under normal circumstances yes, but the point of this exercise is to cut costs so the sport doesn't die due to the cost of competing. While i too would like to see electronic suspension explored to it fullest it's just not practical in this age of recession and economic hardship.


yeah I could believe that the cost cutting is a reason if they are developing them at the same time. But to outright ban them even suggests they can't even buy off the shelf stuff that even we have access to.

Also The ban doesn't stop them doing "mechanical" things to shocks. I assume development will still go ahead in this respect. Usually these days many electronics developments are carried out to cut costs over the equivalent mechanical fix. So I don't think its a cost thing.

Glad you brought that point up though, because its kinda just making me think more and more that its all just a "show" to placate the fans who are crying "kill the electronics".




Crikey Rog: Nice post/reply! ....... ..... I'm a bit stunned ..... but nonetheless I shall upgrade your ranking from "sicko" straight through "fruitcake" etc., and even getting toward "might go fishing with this guy" ( but would not lend you any of my rods at this stage yet )

But seriously I did enjoy the post ... you have a good point...... I actually had my "thought" provoked.

Rossi will be the biggest loser of this statement.

"Electronic and hydraulic launch control systems and electronic suspension systems have been banned."

Rossi is well known as the worst starter of all times . He usually losses 2-3 places at the start on the old days.

Ducati bikes have carbon fiber chassis, carbon fiber is far better than aluminum and steel in term of oscillation absorbing. . So the ban of electonic suspension system is an advantage of Ducati.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nghiemlong @ Feb 20 2009, 06:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi will be the biggest loser of this statement.

"Electronic and hydraulic launch control systems and electronic suspension systems have been banned."

Rossi is well known as the worst starter of all times . He usually losses 2-3 places at the start on the old days.

Ducati bikes have carbon fiber chassis, carbon fiber is far better than aluminum and steel in term of oscillation absorbing. . So the ban of electonic suspension system is an advantage of Ducati.
rossi is a master of compensating weaknesses...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nghiemlong @ Feb 20 2009, 06:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi will be the biggest loser of this statement.

"Electronic and hydraulic launch control systems and electronic suspension systems have been banned."

Rossi is well known as the worst starter of all times . He usually losses 2-3 places at the start on the old days.
He regulary lost 2-4 palces last year too, so I can't see how it affects thing at all. Btw, he did lot's of good starts in 2002 and 2003 so I'm sure he can fix that weakness.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Ducati bikes have carbon fiber chassis, carbon fiber is far better than aluminum and steel in term of oscillation absorbing. . So the ban of electonic suspension system is an advantage of Ducati.
Exactly what kind of oscillation are you talking about?
My impression was that the later CAD designes introduced the possibility to incorporate any nesessary flex into the chassi even with a ridgid material as CF and that has enabled Ducati to make a chassi that isn't too far away from their old trellis frame. But first of all it seem to me that it is Ducati that has oscillation problems both in the present and the past. If they can tune that out of the chassi then good for them, but as well as the Yamaha chassi works that hardly give them much of an advantage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 20 2009, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He regulary lost 2-4 palces last year too, so I can't see how it affects thing at all. Btw, he did lot's of good starts in 2002 and 2003 so I'm sure he can fix that weakness.


Could be this due to the Honda!!!!!

I think vale once mentioned in 2004 that Yamaha starts were worse than Honda

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (surendhar @ Feb 20 2009, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Could be this due to the Honda!!!!!

I think vale once mentioned in 2004 that Yamaha starts were worse than Honda

Sure it could be and probably is.
As pole postion and starts have become more important I expect Rossi's starts to improve, in fact I think we saw signs of this even last year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (surendhar @ Feb 20 2009, 04:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Could be this due to the Honda!!!!!

I think vale once mentioned in 2004 that Yamaha starts were worse than Honda

I don't see it.

Pedrosa is hugely reliant upon launch control. Remember Qatar 2008?

I seem to remember Honda relying quite heavily on using their launch control system to shoot Pedrosa into the lead by the time he reached turn 1.