Laguna race thread

[JohnnyKnockdown]

Unlike you guys, I was pretty sure that Bostrom was either going to bin it or bring it in early. Nothing could be worse for him than interfering in the championship race as a backmarker (something that happens in the AMA quite frequently). If you watched the race on SPEED, I believe he said that he brought it in b/c he was having problems with the shifter, and after losing 10-15 seconds in the gravel trap, he wasn't willing to be lap traffic for the remainder of the race.



He was being smart, imo. Don't bin it, and don't interfere with the championship. Gotta be within 2 seconds to avoid being lapped, Ben never made it.

Really. Do u think that his acceptance call with the LCR boss had those caveats in it. Do u think they would have green lighted his wildcard if they knew he would quit after 10 laps because he was too busy uncontending for an AMA race. LCR didnt hire him so he could use his judgement on when to quit. They hired him as a racer to run 32 laps. They didnt run a crew 7000 miles so he could ride less laps than Mamola did all weekend

 

[JohnnyKnockdown]

This is a redundant ..... but Speed came back fm commercial and panned to the crowd and to Bostrom in the pits for at least a minute before going back to the race and on the last lap as the Ducs entered the last turn they panned to the crowd rather than show Hayden and Rossi drag to the finish.

 

[michaelm]

Don't forget that he has a professional crew that found him what he needed in warm up to have confidence in the bike. They should get some credit as well, like other crews get for finding their guy a good set up and giving him what he needs.

Sure, a lot of credit to his crew. Someone, I think j4rno, said that this was one of ducati's problems this year, that stoner had taken most of ducati's previous best guys and their knowledge of the carbon fibre etc bike with him.



I haven't seen the post race interviews (race was on at 7.00am on a working day here) but stoner usually does credit his crew.

 

[stormypete]

Sure, a lot of credit to his crew. Someone, I think j4rno, said that this was one of ducati's problems this year, that stoner had taken most of ducati's previous best guys and their knowledge of the carbon fibre etc bike with him.



I haven't seen the post race interviews (race was on at 7.00am on a working day here) but stoner usually does credit his crew.

Very true ... to the extent where he reviews the race saying "we did this ... we did that", almost as if the crew were out there with him at the time.



Well done Casey .... awesome passes today !!!!

 

[hawkdriver]

Sure, a lot of credit to his crew. Someone, I think j4rno, said that this was one of ducati's problems this year, that stoner had taken most of ducati's previous best guys and their knowledge of the carbon fibre etc bike with him.



I haven't seen the post race interviews (race was on at 7.00am on a working day here) but stoner usually does credit his crew.

I think he always does give them credit, I meant it more for the fans who were a bit down yesterday for the qualie. His crew should start getting some of the types of recognition that JB gets when he finds Rossi a few magical tenths here and there. They gave him a great package and he had a great strategy for the race, great tire management and hope the issues with the tires are solved. I'd really like to see him and Jlo stay healthy and give us some more great racing, the best part is the bikes seem to be equal now so we'll see who the best rider is without any of the "this one was on that bike with those tires ........". Today Casey was the best rider.

 

[birdman]

if it wasn't for the rules Ducati could not compete in WSBK and their bikes don't exactly have a good reputation for reliability or fit and finish when compared to other brands.

Pretty bike? No street rider is gonna be able to get the most out of any bike so I'm sure people buy them for the nice looks and name. Look what happened to them when HRC decided to build a twin for WSBK.

Yep your right they do get favorable rules in superbike, 200cc more to name the most obvious. Still this year Checa can win on a duc thats slower on straights but has a handling advantage with a trellis frame and stressed engine. I know motogp is not the same but still it surprises me JB/Rossi saying the Ducati is fundamentally flawed in design. I bet its all too hard and Rossi wants a fast fix to get another crack at the championship. Cant blame him but the overall affect cant be good for ducatis reputation so I think thats one reason the team look 'glum as a scotsman' after the races.



You rarely see Stoner that happy, truly epic ride congrats to him. Without the injury Lorenzo may have pushed him till the end but I doubt he couldve beaten Stoner today.

 

[hawkdriver]

Yep your right they do get favorable rules in superbike, 200cc more to name the most obvious. Still this year Checa can win on a duc thats slower on straights but has a handling advantage with a trellis frame and stressed engine. I know motogp is not the same but still it surprises me JB/Rossi saying the Ducati is fundamentally flawed in design. I bet its all too hard and Rossi wants a fast fix to get another crack at the championship. Cant blame him but the overall affect cant be good for ducatis reputation so I think thats one reason the team look 'glum as a scotsman' after the races.



You rarely see Stoner that happy, truly epic ride congrats to him. Without the injury Lorenzo may have pushed him till the end but I doubt he couldve beaten Stoner today.

I think Casey was looking so happy because they have his tire problem figured out and his team was able to get the bike to his liking after qualie when it looked like he was going to be in tough situation for the race. He might also like the strategy he used and I hope he continues with it, stalking his prey then putting the hammer down has to be more fun and easier on the tires than going straight into rocket ship mode and dusting the entire field from start to finish.

I've read that JB is saying the Duc needs to be more like the Japanese bikes with the frame and I hope he carries enough weight with Ducati to make them abandon their unsuccessful design. They should have stuck with the trellis that they are familiar with instead of trying to innovate on an already limited budget and engineering ability. It's really time for someone from management to reign in their engineers who seem to be stuck in the way lots of engineers do with the theory>real world mindset. They've had plenty of test and races to see that they can't figure out how to make the design work in real life. It's time to turn the GP bike into something that more resembles the super bike and that they should have tons of data on.

 

[povol]

Unlike you guys, I was pretty sure that Bostrom was either going to bin it or bring it in early. Nothing could be worse for him than interfering in the championship race as a backmarker (something that happens in the AMA quite frequently). If you watched the race on SPEED, I believe he said that he brought it in b/c he was having problems with the shifter, and after losing 10-15 seconds in the gravel trap, he wasn't willing to be lap traffic for the remainder of the race.



He was being smart, imo. Don't bin it, and don't interfere with the championship. Gotta be within 2 seconds to avoid being lapped, Ben never made it.

Binning it is one thing, at least your trying. He quit. The shifter thing was not the reason he quit, he said that was just set wrong and was basically an annoyounce. He didnt want to get lapped, so he quit. Maybe its time for Ben to spend some time on a South American avacado farm. I cant think of to many riders who have gotten more out of racing that put so little into it. For the most part, both of them have become millionaires off their looks , their hippie communal upbringing story, and showing up every once in awhile motivated enough to compete. They keep getting rides because they can get sponsor money, pure and simple.

 

[alex29]

Talents is the issue. Noone since Gobert has squandered their talent so fabulously. At least Gobert had an excuse

Wasted Talent.



Pfft,

Boz at 37 had no place racing in motogp. Why not give it to a up & coming rider WSBK grid etc. Gets giving the opportunity than quits cause he had another race in the arvo?

 

[mylexicon]

Really. Do u think that his acceptance call with the LCR boss had those caveats in it. Do u think they would have green lighted his wildcard if they knew he would quit after 10 laps because he was too busy uncontending for an AMA race. LCR didnt hire him so he could use his judgement on when to quit. They hired him as a racer to run 32 laps. They didnt run a crew 7000 miles so he could ride less laps than Mamola did all weekend

I doubt his contract stipulated how hard he had to try or not try, but I would have bet big money that Bostrom would have brought it in b/c he was much too slow to avoid getting lapped. The Japanese test riders are about 50/50 whether or not they bring it in, and I had a feeling that Bostrom would do the same.



I don't think anyone was paying him big bucks to do anything. He was on the bike to generate a little media buzz and to get some camera time for Jordan Motorsports. I'm sure Dorna are dying to get Jordan into the sport b/c it opens doors to Nike, Gatorade, and a dozen other American companies he has sponsorship relationships with.



You guys expect too much. Last time they put an old AMA vet on the grid at Laguna, he did the same thing. Didn't even run wide though, Miguel just said he didn't like the bike or understand how to ride it.

 

[Mackie]

I think Casey was looking so happy because they have his tire problem figured out and his team was able to get the bike to his liking after qualie when it looked like he was going to be in tough situation for the race. He might also like the strategy he used and I hope he continues with it, stalking his prey then putting the hammer down has to be more fun and easier on the tires than going straight into rocket ship mode and dusting the entire field from start to finish.

I've read that JB is saying the Duc needs to be more like the Japanese bikes with the frame and I hope he carries enough weight with Ducati to make them abandon their unsuccessful design. They should have stuck with the trellis that they are familiar with instead of trying to innovate on an already limited budget and engineering ability. It's really time for someone from management to reign in their engineers who seem to be stuck in the way lots of engineers do with the theory>real world mindset. They've had plenty of test and races to see that they can't figure out how to make the design work in real life. It's time to turn the GP bike into something that more resembles the super bike and that they should have tons of data on.

+1



Spot on, on both counts. It was quite a good battle today, I'm a little disappointed that Jorge seemed to drop off so quick and not mount a challenge after Stoner went past.

It was shaping up for a tight finish otherwise. But a great race from Casey.



I just watch the interview with Nicky post race, he was saying that he and Rossi were pushing the Ducati to the limit, and nearly over it on many occasions.

Saying that he saw Rossi's foot slip off the peg many times whilst nearly losing the front. Clearly it takes a wealth of talent and experience just to keep the Ducati upright at anything

resembling race pace. Jeremy Burgess is right and everyone knows it.



Lots of talk about 2008 this weekend. Interestingly enough, Rossi's 2008 race time was 18 seconds faster than his race time today. Casey Stoner's 2008 race time despite the crash was still around 5 seconds quicker than Rossi's today.

Jorge's race time in 2010 was just quicker than his time from today.

 

[birdman]

I've read that JB is saying the Duc needs to be more like the Japanese bikes with the frame and I hope he carries enough weight with Ducati to make them abandon their unsuccessful design. They should have stuck with the trellis that they are familiar with instead of trying to innovate on an already limited budget and engineering ability. It's really time for someone from management to reign in their engineers who seem to be stuck in the way lots of engineers do with the theory>real world mindset. They've had plenty of test and races to see that they can't figure out how to make the design work in real life. It's time to turn the GP bike into something that more resembles the super bike and that they should have tons of data on.

Looks like they have massive problems then, reports are they already have the new 1198 superbike developed based on a CF chassis, in which case they have spent millions on a dud. It maybe too late to turn back. There must be a reason why they need to go to CF? Actually I think its an interesting move, the steel trellis has been there since ???? - long time.

What I dont get is that the bike is now a dud when Rossi had the thing on the podium, and was running right up with Dovi's Honda. It must have some potential. They were making real progress if they had of kept working at it? One bad weekend at Silverstone seems to have buggered his confidence so much that they gave up.

 

[mylexicon]

Looks like they have massive problems then, reports are they already have the new 1198 superbike developed based on a CF chassis, in which case they have spent millions on a dud. It maybe too late to turn back. There must be a reason why they need to go to CF? Actually I think its an interesting move, the steel trellis has been there since ???? - long time.

What I dont get is that the bike is now a dud when Rossi had the thing on the podium, and was running right up with Dovi's Honda. It must have some potential. They were making real progress if they had of kept working at it? One bad weekend at Silverstone seems to have buggered his confidence so much that they gave up.

The new bike is not CF. Ducati are allegedly using an alloy monocoque design. Ducati adopted CF b/c according to Suppo, decent aluminum alloy cannot be had in Italy, either that or Ducati are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to raw materials imports. CF is relatively easy to come by since Italy has a healthy automobile racing industry.

 

[hawkdriver]

The new bike is not CF. Ducati are allegedly using an alloy monocoque design. Ducati adopted CF b/c according to Suppo, decent aluminum alloy cannot be had in Italy, either that or Ducati are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to raw materials imports. CF is relatively easy to come by since Italy has a healthy automobile racing industry.

Something doesn't make sense here, both aluminum and CF are bought with money and CF is extremely more expensive and harder to get a hold of(true aero quality 60% or higher carbon content) with boeing and other aero companies getting first dibs because they buy in massive quantities and pretty much set the demand for it. Aluminum is easy to be had and can be made to whatever spec you need by alloy and hardness. Now if he said Italy/Ducati lacks the ability to do anything with that aluminum from a manufacturing standpoint I agree but they are going to find themselves in the same boat as Lamborghini trying to fool around with CF. It isn't cheap and Lamborghini were smart enough to team up with Boeing who are a true leader in manufacturing anything made of CF, instead Ducati have chosen to either tackle this problem on their own or they may be in with Ferrari who I seriously doubt have anything of use to offer.

 

[corinthian]

Just to weigh in on the Bostrom debate (and I'm a non-American who wasn't really aware of his credentials) I think in a sense his team can be very satisfied with his weekend. Independently of what he's done on other bikes, he's brought money and attention to the team and has improved steadily throughout the weekend. Here in Spain a lot's been made of the fact that Toni's sponsors have been unhappy, and the ultimatum issued earlier in the season was on their orders. The single most important piece of information for me was this: Bostrom's fastest race lap was a 1'24.091 on a bike he hardly had time to get to know and with a crew he hadn't met till Friday, and all this on those Bridgestone tyres that continue to give even the top riders headaches. By comparison Toni Elias was only capable of a 1'24.200 in the race. When we look back on Toni's time in MotoGP I think we'll see this race not as the beginning of the end (he's never settled in on the GP bikes since they stopped custom-building his rear tyres) but as the first nail in the coffin. Why? Because Elias insists that it's the bike that's a fault, but now we have a rider who (unlike Elias) has never really won anything but is able to step in and beat Toni (over a single lap, and passing him in the race) with almost no preparation.



I feel bad for Elias, and it's never pleasant to see a rider suffer because of equipment issues rather than talent issues (eg almost anyone on a Ducati, Michelin riders in the last season with two tyre manufacturers, etc.). Where can the lad go now?

 

[Tom]

I think this was an excellent race, and possibly a pivotal one. Stoner was incredible, played it smart and had the speed when he needed it. I think it was an important win for him because he's had to raise his game to stop Lorenzo getting too much momentum on him, and respond to Pedrosas hugely impressive comeback. Now he can eliminate any doubts he or anyone else has before the summer break.



Lorenzo rode brilliantly as usual but just didn't have enough left at the end and it seems he settled rather than risking it all. Just how well Lorenzo is doing can be seen by the sea of Honda's he is endlessly racing against while nobody else can get near. After the crash on Saturday Lorenzo did well to get what he did, but he refused to blame the bashes and bruises for his second place.



Pedrosa didn't have an especially exciting race, but another solid and strong performance, he's ridden better than ever this year and it is such a shame he got hurt.



Spies needs to up his game, he isn't as quick as the Aliens yet and he's too inconsistent both from race to race and within a race. The final step is the hardest to make but i feel like he is close, it'd be nice if he could be a front runner week in week out.



Hayden and Rossi were at it all race, and unfortunately for the home crowd Rossi came out on top (perhaps predictably). In the garage afterwards Nicky looked seriously unhappy, and not at all amused by Rossi attempts to goof around and play up to the camera. Tough times for Hayden at the moment, but at least he's pretty damn close to Rossi... Who has slipped to 5th overall and looks likely to go further back behind Spies if Ben can string some results together. Truly bad times for the Doctor.





Simoncelli - crashed again. He has stayed on for a few races to confirm his blistering practice pace doesn't transfer, and he still can't be consistent. HRC must really be thinking about dropping him since their other 3 riders are considerably better. Trouble with Marco is that if he does finally click he might be seriously quick, so it could bite Honda if they do let him go, i wouldn't bet on it though.



Bostrom - waste of space. Should have given the ride to someone hungry, somene who might actually find themselves in motogp in the futuer, and someone who might have been remotely fast. All the moto2 and wskb riders were available. Ben made all the right noises about being honoured to get a chance to ride a gp bike but there is very little honour in being slower than the embarassment of the field and then giving up. Shame really

 

[Torgo]

Very exciting race, and I'm happy to see Stoner on top of the podium again. What a victory for him and his team, they did some miracle work on the bike in the morning. Both the pass on Pedrosa and the one on Lorenzo were clean and, especially the last one, quite daring. No question about if Casey has the balls to pull such moves.



Amazing performance by Lorenzo considering his injuries. Fully understandable that he backed off after being passed, but sad we missed out on what could've been a nice fight to the finish line. His comments right after the race were very professional, didn't play the 'oooh I'm so injured' card or anything. I'm starting to like the guy, and I don't like that

Pedrosa did what he could, also being injured. Great performance, but I really hope both he and Lorenzo heal up soon so we get some close racing up to the finish line.





Haydens comment to Rossi should probably not be taken too seriously. I'm sure he was joking, they both know you don't get anything for free on the race track. Want my spot? I'll race you for it

 

[birdman]

Something doesn't make sense here, both aluminum and CF are bought with money and CF is extremely more expensive and harder to get a hold of(true aero quality 60% or higher carbon content) with boeing and other aero companies getting first dibs because they buy in massive quantities and pretty much set the demand for it. Aluminum is easy to be had and can be made to whatever spec you need by alloy and hardness. Now if he said Italy/Ducati lacks the ability to do anything with that aluminum from a manufacturing standpoint I agree but they are going to find themselves in the same boat as Lamborghini trying to fool around with CF. It isn't cheap and Lamborghini were smart enough to team up with Boeing who are a true leader in manufacturing anything made of CF, instead Ducati have chosen to either tackle this problem on their own or they may be in with Ferrari who I seriously doubt have anything of use to offer.

Heres some info on it from: http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2010/08/radical-overhaul-planned-for-2012-ducati-1198-successor/



"The traditional Ducati approach leads to a longer wheelbase than the multi-cylinder competition and a limit to how far forward the engine can be positioned in the frame (to avoid the front cylinder head contacting the wheel during braking). In turn for any given wheelbase, the Ducati will have a shorter swingarm length compromising traction on the one hand (shorter swingarm) and limiting agility on the other (longer overall wheelbase)."



"The solution would appear to be a radical make over as result of MotoGP competition and testing along with a design study in 2001 when Ducati seriously contemplated racing a twin in MotoGP (the concept was abandoned as it would not produce enough horsepower). The new solution is a monocoque chassis not dissimilar to that of the existing Ducati GP10 MotoGP machine but fabricated from aluminum rather than carbon fiber. The rationale is to be able to produce a Superbike racer with a shorter wheelbase and the provision for a longer swingarm length for improved handling. A shorter wheelbase allows for less lean angle for any given cornering radius, and a longer swingarm as we noted above aids in traction"



“Using a cast alloy chassis like this on a road bike has a long list of advantages for Ducati. It’s a win on all levels. Not only do you get around the old Ducati bugbear of airboxes that are too small and restrict power, but the fuel tanks can then be much bigger, answering another Ducati problem….AND you can make the whole bike smaller.”

 

[Mr Squiggle]

I think this was an excellent race, and possibly a pivotal one. Stoner was incredible, played it smart and had the speed when he needed it. I think it was an important win for him because he's had to raise his game to stop Lorenzo getting too much momentum on him, and respond to Pedrosas hugely impressive comeback. Now he can eliminate any doubts he or anyone else has before the summer break.



Lorenzo rode brilliantly as usual but just didn't have enough left at the end and it seems he settled rather than risking it all. Just how well Lorenzo is doing can be seen by the sea of Honda's he is endlessly racing against while nobody else can get near. After the crash on Saturday Lorenzo did well to get what he did, but he refused to blame the bashes and bruises for his second place.



Pedrosa didn't have an especially exciting race, but another solid and strong performance, he's ridden better than ever this year and it is such a shame he got hurt.



Spies needs to up his game, he isn't as quick as the Aliens yet and he's too inconsistent both from race to race and within a race. The final step is the hardest to make but i feel like he is close, it'd be nice if he could be a front runner week in week out.



Hayden and Rossi were at it all race, and unfortunately for the home crowd Rossi came out on top (perhaps predictably). In the garage afterwards Nicky looked seriously unhappy, and not at all amused by Rossi attempts to goof around and play up to the camera. Tough times for Hayden at the moment, but at least he's pretty damn close to Rossi... Who has slipped to 5th overall and looks likely to go further back behind Spies if Ben can string some results together. Truly bad times for the Doctor.





Simoncelli - crashed again. He has stayed on for a few races to confirm his blistering practice pace doesn't transfer, and he still can't be consistent. HRC must really be thinking about dropping him since their other 3 riders are considerably better. Trouble with Marco is that if he does finally click he might be seriously quick, so it could bite Honda if they do let him go, i wouldn't bet on it though.



Bostrom - waste of space. Should have given the ride to someone hungry, somene who might actually find themselves in motogp in the futuer, and someone who might have been remotely fast. All the moto2 and wskb riders were available. Ben made all the right noises about being honoured to get a chance to ride a gp bike but there is very little honour in being slower than the embarassment of the field and then giving up. Shame really

Honda have a much brighter prospect on the horizon in Marquez....they should drop both Sic and Aoyama next year. Stick Dovi on Sics bike and give Marquez Aoyamas ride...that way Dovi still has a factory Honda (deserved) and Marquez has a satellite ride for his rookie year and can be moved up to the Repsol team in the future if need be.

 

[Marijke]

Well first and foremost: het is dan ook kleine meisjes bedtijd.



You are right of course, the eternal replays of the start, shots of faces in the pits and views from the midfield are terrible. But that happens every single race. I commented on the exact same thing last race. Did you think that was a boring one too? I think some people at Dorna figured that these tricks are a good way to keep the tv crowd interested, and they have missed the fact that we actually have some really good racing going on lately.



Now off to bed with you!

grapjas

to be very honest I havent seen the last race

i heard it was a good one tho??

but if some here are saying laguna was the best Im not sure if I want to bother with rewatching sachsenring