Laguna race thread

[mylexicon]

Something doesn't make sense here, both aluminum and CF are bought with money and CF is extremely more expensive and harder to get a hold of(true aero quality 60% or higher carbon content) with boeing and other aero companies getting first dibs because they buy in massive quantities and pretty much set the demand for it. Aluminum is easy to be had and can be made to whatever spec you need by alloy and hardness. Now if he said Italy/Ducati lacks the ability to do anything with that aluminum from a manufacturing standpoint I agree but they are going to find themselves in the same boat as Lamborghini trying to fool around with CF. It isn't cheap and Lamborghini were smart enough to team up with Boeing who are a true leader in manufacturing anything made of CF, instead Ducati have chosen to either tackle this problem on their own or they may be in with Ferrari who I seriously doubt have anything of use to offer.

Just repeating what Suppo said. The Japanese were probably not happy to see Ducati introduce carbon fiber chassis components b/c titanium frames have been banned for a long time in the name of cost and safety. Perhaps Suppo was giving a bogus explanation so they MSMA would stop hassling Ducati.



I'm inclined to believe him though b/c CF is a lot easier to experiment with. Suppose Ducati want to make special aluminum alloys. They need an experimental foundry for Ducati Corse or a really good technical partner. If Ducati want to experiment with CF, they only need to buy an oven, buy the CF weaves, then hire someone who knows how to cut, assemble, and bake.

 

[Mr Squiggle]

Yea crash is the site I left when I found out about powerslide

never liked the bunch over there, too much childish arguments.



I'd love to see what Stoner could do on the Yamaha. I wouldn't want him to leave Honda for it, just let him have a day or two at a race track with the M1.

There'll be a year where the rookies from Moto2 have to ride in the satellite teams, but after that we'll have a few candidates for the rides

Yes Powerslide is a very good forum and I really enjoy the fact you can have an intelligent debate most of the time on here.....MCN is another shocker - check out this turkeys comments post Laguna...what a child

His moniker is RossiDickSucker46 or something like that.....



Sad times, shame for Lorenzo...



Lorenzo was really lucky to be able to race at all after qualifying nevermind win outright. He gave it 110% but as he was only physically at about 75% thats not much. Stoner was fully fit, on the Honda rocket and needed the points back. I wouldn't say the best man won I'd say he came second in this race. The races are sooo hyped up and the fans turn out by the thousands and basically the order is decided after the first lap. The 800cc's are .... on a good day nevermind when Moaner puts it on the top step. Oh well, at least the points advantage isn't huge and Lorenzo has some good races coming. HAD he been fully fit he'd have won easily.



I think the title should read "Stoner gifted victory by Lorenzo's injuries". He was hardly beatne fair and square. The guy was just about dead when he arrived in Parc Ferme. Stoner had the pace in the end but only really against two fading riders. There wasn't a big battle and the race in general was very uncompetitive. Looks like Championship will be decided buy how little luck Moaners competition get compared to him not on actually fighting for it.



Honda's bike had an unreal speed advantage down the start finish and you tell me now Pedrosa didn't just say "go on then, you win the Championship with my help", Team orders don't have to be an obvious public statement but when it came to it Pedrosa did his PR bit for Honda by not attempting a fight back.



As for Ducati and having Stoner back. I don't think he'd do any better. Maybe take a few more risks like he usually does when the Championship is finished but the GP11 is dog .... and we have to thank whoever gave the directions through 2010 or whenever it was designed. Rossi is simply a victim of the machinery available and he aint gonna risk the crashes Stoner had previously.



I actually think he honestly believes this .... too

 

[MdubSTYLIE]

RACE OF THE CENTURY!!



Stoner backing it into the corkscrew !!!

Adriana was white when Stoner overtook Lorenzo!

The crowd seemed to appreciate "the pass" of the century.

What a ride .... I've never seen better.

Thats why Stoner owns Laguna

Thats why Stoner won "the corkscrew incident" in 08!

Thats why Stoner is THE REAL GOAT!!!

The anti-jinx works Michael

Whats up barry? Couldn't find the, I just blew my load all over the computer screen emoticon?

 

[tikki50]

Yes Powerslide is a very good forum and I really enjoy the fact you can have an intelligent debate most of the time on here.....MCN is another shocker - check out this turkeys comments post Laguna...what a child

His moniker is RossiDickSucker46 or something like that.....



Sad times, shame for Lorenzo...



Lorenzo was really lucky to be able to race at all after qualifying nevermind win outright. He gave it 110% but as he was only physically at about 75% thats not much. Stoner was fully fit, on the Honda rocket and needed the points back. I wouldn't say the best man won I'd say he came second in this race. The races are sooo hyped up and the fans turn out by the thousands and basically the order is decided after the first lap. The 800cc's are .... on a good day nevermind when Moaner puts it on the top step. Oh well, at least the points advantage isn't huge and Lorenzo has some good races coming. HAD he been fully fit he'd have won easily.



I think the title should read "Stoner gifted victory by Lorenzo's injuries". He was hardly beatne fair and square. The guy was just about dead when he arrived in Parc Ferme. Stoner had the pace in the end but only really against two fading riders. There wasn't a big battle and the race in general was very uncompetitive. Looks like Championship will be decided buy how little luck Moaners competition get compared to him not on actually fighting for it.



Honda's bike had an unreal speed advantage down the start finish and you tell me now Pedrosa didn't just say "go on then, you win the Championship with my help", Team orders don't have to be an obvious public statement but when it came to it Pedrosa did his PR bit for Honda by not attempting a fight back.



As for Ducati and having Stoner back. I don't think he'd do any better. Maybe take a few more risks like he usually does when the Championship is finished but the GP11 is dog .... and we have to thank whoever gave the directions through 2010 or whenever it was designed. Rossi is simply a victim of the machinery available and he aint gonna risk the crashes Stoner had previously.



I actually think he honestly believes this .... too

seriously, this is racing, all those riders at some point have had to ride with injuries, JLo is no different. I honestly cant believe your stating JLO gifted the win to Stoner. Im not a fan of either rider but I dont say the winner shouldn't have won it. Man thats just sad, Stoner was the best rider yesterday, period. Every rider on the grid works very hard, they didnt get there by whining. You cant take that away from the guy, and dont be blaming the machine, Honda has the best package, so what. Yamaha has done well over the past few years, did you honestly think Honda would just sit there in second place, LOL, aint going to happen.

 

[spooky]

Good post race interview with Rossi



'good racing'



Very complimentary towards Jorge and Stoner i thought... He also thought the passes were top notch, good close racing is where it at!

 

[povol]

Yes Powerslide is a very good forum and I really enjoy the fact you can have an intelligent debate most of the time on here.....MCN is another shocker - check out this turkeys comments post Laguna...what a child

His moniker is RossiDickSucker46 or something like that.....



Sad times, shame for Lorenzo...



Lorenzo was really lucky to be able to race at all after qualifying nevermind win outright. He gave it 110% but as he was only physically at about 75% thats not much. Stoner was fully fit, on the Honda rocket and needed the points back. I wouldn't say the best man won I'd say he came second in this race. The races are sooo hyped up and the fans turn out by the thousands and basically the order is decided after the first lap. The 800cc's are .... on a good day nevermind when Moaner puts it on the top step. Oh well, at least the points advantage isn't huge and Lorenzo has some good races coming. HAD he been fully fit he'd have won easily.



I think the title should read "Stoner gifted victory by Lorenzo's injuries". He was hardly beatne fair and square. The guy was just about dead when he arrived in Parc Ferme. Stoner had the pace in the end but only really against two fading riders. There wasn't a big battle and the race in general was very uncompetitive. Looks like Championship will be decided buy how little luck Moaners competition get compared to him not on actually fighting for it.



Honda's bike had an unreal speed advantage down the start finish and you tell me now Pedrosa didn't just say "go on then, you win the Championship with my help", Team orders don't have to be an obvious public statement but when it came to it Pedrosa did his PR bit for Honda by not attempting a fight back.



As for Ducati and having Stoner back. I don't think he'd do any better. Maybe take a few more risks like he usually does when the Championship is finished but the GP11 is dog .... and we have to thank whoever gave the directions through 2010 or whenever it was designed. Rossi is simply a victim of the machinery available and he aint gonna risk the crashes Stoner had previously.



I actually think he honestly believes this .... too

How do i loath thee, let me count the ways



1 Stoner was probably as sore as Lorenzo was after his off at Germany.



2 The Ducati's had the 2 fastest trap speeds of the race, like that means something



3 I guess Lorenzo must be in on the conspiracy as well to gift Stoner the title, he didnt fight back either. Honda is so powerful, they have team orders for Yamaha.

4

 

[Goatboy]

1 Stoner was probably as sore as Lorenzo was after his off at Germany.

Weak

 

[Goatboy]

Yea crash is the site I left when I found out about powerslide

never liked the bunch over there, too much childish arguments.

You realise it's exactly the same people here right?

 

[Anders]

Ah that would explain why he must have said something to Rossi. I guess it one thing to hold up the opposition team members as Rossi does, but generally one would think if your team mate looked like he could outpace you one would be a bit more willing to let them pass. Then again there is a lot at stake these days when Hayden beats Rossi

Exactly my point.Bad for the Ducati -Rossi-Burgess publicity with the older beating the newer,but Hayden was faster just about all weekend.I'm not saying Rossi should have let him pass (you have to beat your teammate) but had Hayden been ahead of Rossi,he would have pulled away.

I saw Hayden say to Rossi after the race: - At Indy it's my turn. More as a joke ofcourse but He looked kind of serious.We'll see what gives.

Maybe they both are racing an aluminium chassi at Brno...

 

[Mackie]

Exactly my point.Bad for the Ducati -Rossi-Burgess publicity with the older beating the newer,but Hayden was faster just about all weekend.I'm not saying Rossi should have let him pass (you have to beat your teammate) but had Hayden been ahead of Rossi,he would have pulled away.

I saw Hayden say to Rossi after the race: - At Indy it's my turn. More as a joke ofcourse but He looked kind of serious.We'll see what gives.

Maybe they both are racing an aluminium chassi at Brno...

And Stoner would have pulled away from Rossi in 2008 at Laguna if Rossi let him past too. This is racing

 

[hawkdriver]

Just repeating what Suppo said. The Japanese were probably not happy to see Ducati introduce carbon fiber chassis components b/c titanium frames have been banned for a long time in the name of cost and safety. Perhaps Suppo was giving a bogus explanation so they MSMA would stop hassling Ducati.



I'm inclined to believe him though b/c CF is a lot easier to experiment with. Suppose Ducati want to make special aluminum alloys. They need an experimental foundry for Ducati Corse or a really good technical partner. If Ducati want to experiment with CF, they only need to buy an oven, buy the CF weaves, then hire someone who knows how to cut, assemble, and bake.

That's the problem and a large misconception about CF and other high end composites, they would need to buy preimpregnated CF, it's the most consistent and using anything else would be a waste of time and money because there is currently no other way to get the repeatable results that a machine can. (this is what lambo and boeing are mainly working on to reduce cost)It's extremely expensive and shipping it is also expensive because it has to stay below freezing to slow down the chemical reaction of the hardener and resin, but Ducati don't really need large amounts.

They would also need an autoclave capable of reaching 100+psi and about 40degrees F hotter than the highest temps the finished pieces will come in contact with , again for the most consistency because they're making a structural piece. They would really need at least one highly experienced engineer to determine what temperatures, pressure, and how to cycle those temps and pressures for the stiffness they want, this information is not shared in the industry and it's where the real magic happens. From the pictures I've seen they do appear to have a quality finished product so they seem to be lacking in design and with them taking a few years to come out with a step 2 frame I don't think they have access to the tooling and engineers they need to produce enough parts for meaningful testing and understanding of what they exactly need the frame to do. It's probably the same reason they're trying to fix the problem by putting more flex into everything around the front end, thinner forks, triple clamps, headstock...yada yada

 

[JohnnyKnockdown]

It seems I'm in a mexican standoff. Jumkie is attempting to worm his way out of our wager. He's claiming that the standings don't show that Bostrom was last so therefore he didn't lose the bet.

Bostrom was running last when his quitting ... quit and noone else quit after him.

I say he's last and Jums needs to start writing his essay. What's the verdict here?

 

[Kropotkin]

It seems I'm in a mexican standoff. Jumkie is attempting to worm his way out of our wager. He's claiming that the standings don't show that Bostrom was last so therefore he didn't lose the bet.

Bostrom was running last when his quitting ... quit and noone else quit after him.

I say he's last and Jums needs to start writing his essay. What's the verdict here?

Bautista crashed out after Bostrom quit. As much as I'd like to bust Jum's ..., I think he's right.

 

[hawkdriver]

It seems I'm in a mexican standoff. Jumkie is attempting to worm his way out of our wager. He's claiming that the standings don't show that Bostrom was last so therefore he didn't lose the bet.

Bostrom was running last when his quitting ... quit and noone else quit after him.

I say he's last and Jums needs to start writing his essay. What's the verdict here?

I would count the guy who quit as last, the others who crashed were at least trying. Maybe you can start a pole and we can vote

 

[JohnnyKnockdown]

Bautista crashed out after Bostrom quit. As much as I'd like to bust Jum's ..., I think he's right.

Thats my point. How is it fair to count a crash against a quit? Bautista chose to finish what he started while Bostrom didnt. Eliminate all the crashers and Bostrom was still running dead last when he quit. A quitter should finish behind a crasher because at least a quitter has a choice

 

[mylexicon]

That's the problem and a large misconception about CF and other high end composites, they would need to buy preimpregnated CF, it's the most consistent and using anything else would be a waste of time and money because there is currently no other way to get the repeatable results that a machine can. (this is what lambo and boeing are mainly working on to reduce cost)It's extremely expensive and shipping it is also expensive because it has to stay below freezing to slow down the chemical reaction of the hardener and resin, but Ducati don't really need large amounts.

They would also need an autoclave capable of reaching 100+psi and about 40degrees F hotter than the highest temps the finished pieces will come in contact with , again for the most consistency because they're making a structural piece. They would really need at least one highly experienced engineer to determine what temperatures, pressure, and how to cycle those temps and pressures for the stiffness they want, this information is not shared in the industry and it's where the real magic happens. From the pictures I've seen they do appear to have a quality finished product so they seem to be lacking in design and with them taking a few years to come out with a step 2 frame I don't think they have access to the tooling and engineers they need to produce enough parts for meaningful testing and understanding of what they exactly need the frame to do. It's probably the same reason they're trying to fix the problem by putting more flex into everything around the front end, thinner forks, triple clamps, headstock...yada yada

Then why don't they use aluminum?

 

[Tom]

It seems I'm in a mexican standoff. Jumkie is attempting to worm his way out of our wager. He's claiming that the standings don't show that Bostrom was last so therefore he didn't lose the bet.

Bostrom was running last when his quitting ... quit and noone else quit after him.

I say he's last and Jums needs to start writing his essay. What's the verdict here?

I don't know the actual wording of the bet but the intention of the bet is clear. It was a simple case of who will perform better. It is clear who performed better. Jumkie should honour the spirit of the bet and pay up, because Bostrom sucks

 

[lil red rocket pilot]

Thats my point. How is it fair to count a crash against a quit? Bautista chose to finish what he started while Bostrom didnt. Eliminate all the crashers and Bostrom was still running dead last when he quit. A quitter should finish behind a crasher because at least a quitter has a choice

+1

 

[lil red rocket pilot]

I don't know the actual wording of the bet but the intention of the bet is clear. It was a simple case of who will perform better. It is clear who performed better. Jumkie should honour the spirit of the bet and pay up, because Bostrom sucks

+2 I agree with this twice as much as JK's

 

[inam22]

Another good one after sachsenring race, impressive stuff from Stoner. Good to see top three guys battling it out for so many laps, shame it didn't lasted till the end. Very disappointing with Rossi and Ducati form, i hope he has get out clause in his contract