Laguna race thread

[BarryMachine]

Chops... who bet on STONER!

WWWWWWTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!

Has Rog. gone from being "the biggest Bopper" to the worst bopper in existence ?

I knew he had a bad trait, for a bopper, when we found out that within close proximity of Stoner Rog's knees go to gellyand he giggles like a schoolgirl ........ but to bet on Stoner!!!

 

[birdman]

Hayden talks about carbon chasis:

http://2wheeltuesday.com/2010/03/mo...-new-ducati-and-the-carbon-fiber-frame-video/

Rossi runs through his Yamaha bikes:

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/5552/after-the-hype-the-ducati-gp11-to-become-rossis-new-m1

 

[Tom]

I agree entirely. Everyone favours the person they follow in sport to a degree...but you need to separate this bias or you risk looking foolish ala the RDB46 post. Delusional writing at its best and this guy aint no teenager. Just another bitter Rossi fanboy.



The fact Rossi is struggling this year is not a source of joy for me but the systematic dismantling of every myth perpetuated about Stoner's racecraft and skillset by the "haters" certainly is.



As we have heard ad infinitum over the recent past Stoner is only ever winning because of the Duke.....well that one has been soundly debunked....in fact he only ever won DESPITE the Ducati is the reality of the situation and puts his 2007 world championship in perspective considering his competition, points haul and age.



On top of this the following are now shown to be complete fallacies....



1. He cant overtake....hmm put on a clinic this weekend with some of the cleanest ballsiest moves I have ever seen. And in the past has also shown controlled aggression and amazing skills when passing other riders whilst at the same time maintaining a margin of safety for his competitors.



2. He can only win from the front....hmm how may holeshots has he had this year again????? He has made clinical passes in every race he has won this year to get to the front and once he does he usually stays there bar the previous 2 races before Laguna where he faded mid race.



3. He is only winning because of the Honda...well its a good bike but only roughly equal with the Yam I would say. And where exactly are the other factory pilots placed....they aint in front of CS are they!



4. He is the traction control king....debunked by multiple other riders, team managers and mechanics.



5. Cant setup a bike....well this one is a harder call but look to this weekend for evidence on the contrary. He has been on the bike for a shorter time than any other HRC rider yet manages to usually nail a good setup by raceday and often much quicker. He did so again this weekend unless of course he was "sandbagging"

6. Cant develop a bike....still unproven at this stage I would say and more data and time is needed to make a judgement call on this....but look at where the development genius of Rossi/JB has taken the Duc so far this year. I think many overestimate the influence of rider in this particular element of producing a good bike and engineers/designers are far more pivotal.



7. He has no racecraft....again the statements of the Duke needing to be over-ridden to maintain optimum tire temp saw him having to push the bike beyond its limit on occaision....a limit that probably required psychic ability to understand when the fickle front end of the bike was going to let go. This was the racecraft required to win on a Ducati unlike the Honda where he has other options.



8. He is a serial crasher....when CS has a front end he has confidence in he is super fast and usually very consistent without crashing - 2007 he had ZERO DNF's...this year he has had less than most. In 2006 he was on the worst bike on the grid and yet still managed a podium and a pole....which other rider has done the same on the LCR - answer NONE. He did crash a lot but only because he settles for nothing less than being the fastest and winning and it was his learning year...all the fast guys crash understanding the limits of the bike.



The other thing he rarely gets credit for is the respect he shows to his team. I also dont see him playing mind games with his competition preferring to let his riding do the talking. He has his personality flaws and at times has been a "...." but how many on here can say they are perfect examples of humanity?



I enjoy his brutal honesty and much prefer someone who wont sugar coat an answer to appease the masses....I think many people are incapable of warming to this type of personality and I often think of Jack Nicholson in the movie A Few Good Men when he said "you cant handle the truth" - in the age of spin doctoring media massaged PR he is a breath of fresh air.



Bottom line is when it comes to watching a guy thrash a bike around a motorcycle track at fearsome pace I cant think of a single other rider I would prefer to watch and after all isn't that the reason why we love this sport and go to the racetrack in the first place?

Good post, i agree with most of this. Except that the LCR Honda was never the worst bike on the grid in 2006, far from it i think.

 

[Mr Squiggle]

Good post, i agree with most of this. Except that the LCR Honda was never the worst bike on the grid in 2006, far from it i think.

Yes fair point - I had forgotten about Ilmor....they were definitely inferior.



However LCR did have the following disadvantages....



1. They were a first year team having migrated from 250cc. (zero setup data, no experience with MGP bikes)



2. They were 2nd/3rd in line for choice of tires. (overnight specials weren't an option)



3. The LCR Honda used Ohlins suspension as opposed to Showa which is owned by HRC (less setup data and no comparison with other teams data)



Debatable if they were the worst overall package (other than Ilmor) is a more accurate description.....



I think the Factory Zooks were better overall packages.....and the Kwaks werent too bad either....

 

[akeizm]

Read a news report Casey is racing with an injured neck and is in doubt for Brno. Doubt he will miss that.

 

[lad]

From where we were watching - it was a great race! The crowds were really into it. Other than Roger, Bonnie, the kids, Willski, Arrib and his lovely charge threatening to storm off and go home after Crutchey crashed, the only negative moment I can recall was the collective moaning and sooking from all the sore losers when Stoner took the checkered flag.



Oh! Almost forgot. One other bloke was looking a bit chagrined at the end. Twas Arrib as he handed $10.00 American to Chops... who bet on STONER!

ahhhh the truth will out!

 

[Andy Roo]

What did JB say before the race? According to Daryl Beattie JB said they need to change the ducati (for Rossi) to be more like a Japanese bike. Holy .... isnt it a bit like saying get a yamaha and paint it red because the whole ducati philosophy is wrong. What a kick in the head for ducati they must be wondering why the hell they hired these guys. Doesnt Ducati have the most successfull superbike in history with a trellis frame and stressed V engine, beating inline fours with alloy frames? What do you say to all those who paid good money for a duc? Sorry Rossi said your bike sucks, sell it and buy a yamaha.

They need to work on the bike and honestly back off the rhetoric. If I was a Ducati shareholder by now I'd be saying "whoa boys, enough with the mouth trap".



My first post since the race and I read the whole thread. I've been busy at work and the girlfriend went back to Norway 1 week before Mr crazy God botherer with a gun validated everything I say about religion. She says the whole country is just very very sad and shocked.



The race.



This was a great race, Stoner pulled off two of the best passes I have ever seen him do. Watching him hunt down Pedro then Jorge was amazing



Jorge and Pedro seemed to burn out early (they did a Stoner) although Jorge was still steaming along until Stoner got him.



I like the description of the top riders (the three in this and most other races CS, JL, DP) on their first laps, they basically have a controlled crash until they get heat into the tyres.



Ben Spies has to learn the controlled crash and not give away too much early, he could have got a fading Pedro if he got away better.



Simo is a great rider but finishing is a prerequisite. Honda will probably ditch him and he'll end up on a Ducati or something, but has far too much talent for this to happen, He needs a Honda or Yamaha...even a Suzuki ride (but not at the expense of Bautista).



Bostrom sucked. He may be a great guy (but as I've said previously so is the kid who mows my lawn). He just showed us how big the gap is and how hard it is to ride these bikes as fast as they do.



I think Nicki is on team orders not to pass Rossi, I thought he had him then...nothing.



I loved it, it was the German race in reverse at the front and I seriously rate Jorge and Casey as being ultra alien at present, and they seem to have a genuine respect for each other, none of this wrestling theatrics .... that flows from some riders like a steady stream of diarrhea. This is a great season!

 

[Marijke]

alex briggs said this on twitter about what was said in the box (Im sure you all have read it on your own twitterpage already

)



A few asking if all was ok between NH & VR after race. No prob. Nicky said jokingly 2 VR "Hey Vale its my home race ya could have let me by"

 

[lil red rocket pilot]

From where we were watching - it was a great race! The crowds were really into it. Other than Roger, Bonnie, the kids, Willski, Arrib and his lovely charge threatening to storm off and go home after Crutchey crashed, the only negative moment I can recall was the collective moaning and sooking from all the sore losers when Stoner took the checkered flag.



Oh! Almost forgot. One other bloke was looking a bit chagrined at the end. Twas Arrib as he handed $10.00 American to Chops... who bet on STONER!

I'd say it was a very good race there was some good passes and a lead change but the action was few and far between unlike germany where there was non stop passing and battling all through the grid and from begining to end.

However if I'd been there on jumkies rock I'd also most probably be agreeing with you whole hearted. Even cold and wet silverstone was a great race just because I was there. Even though it wasn't really that great really.

I sulked when Crutchy went down too. No shame in that!

You get the sore losers at all races, it dont matter who wins theres always some jokers wanting to drag down the achievement they just paid to witness. Fools

 

[lil red rocket pilot]

Read a news report Casey is racing with an injured neck and is in doubt for Brno. Doubt he will miss that.

Do you have a link to this please?

 

[Tom]

Yes fair point - I had forgotten about Ilmor....they were definitely inferior.



However LCR did have the following disadvantages....



1. They were a first year team having migrated from 250cc. (zero setup data, no experience with MGP bikes)



2. They were 2nd/3rd in line for choice of tires. (overnight specials weren't an option)



3. The LCR Honda used Ohlins suspension as opposed to Showa which is owned by HRC (less setup data and no comparison with other teams data)



Debatable if they were the worst overall package (other than Ilmor) is a more accurate description.....



I think the Factory Zooks were better overall packages.....and the Kwaks werent too bad either....

I think back then the only bikes better to be on were either factory Honda, factory Ducati or Factory Yamaha. None of the others were as sorted as the Honda, even in satellite trim (in the last year of the 990's everyone except Nicky was on fundamentally the same thing). I'm not sure about the Ohlins thing, i am sure LCR moved to Ohlins just a year or two ago with RDP on the bike, but correct me if i'm wrong. Tyres was famously Casey's biggest issue but i'm not convinced they were enough to consider the package anywhere near bottom of the pile.

 

[Baffy]

Do you have a link to this please?

My link

 

[povol]

Weak

Aussie MotoGP championship leader Casey Stoner is fighting to overcome a neck injury before the season resumes after a three-week break.



Stoner won Sunday's US Grand Prix but rode with an injury he sustained during a recent crash in Holland.



Doctors have told the 2007 world champion he might not fully recover until the Australian race at Phillip Island in October.



"I can't do strength training because of my neck, just cycling," Stoner said.



"In the Assen crash I came down hard with all the G forces through my shoulder and it has trapped a muscle between my vertebrae and discs - the muscle is damaged pretty badly.



"I've had a scan and the doctors said it will be two-and-a-half months before my neck is right, it will take a long time to heal," he said.



"At Laguna Seca I could barely breathe after qualifying because my neck and also muscles on my ribs tightened up."

 

[Keshav]

thats what you get for watching a craftsman for a race or two.



race was not as stale as some others but i was holding out for a big battle but still epic finish by stoner the move on pedro was ace.... stoner used his noodle, hung in there ....waited quiet till lorenzo's tryes went off then pounced.



i think someone has turned the wick down on celli's bike and i think its done to keep him away from the other 2 honda's

I agree with Pov... it's all ......... Watch some races from the "Golden Age" when Doohan was dominating. He ran away

with it all the time. People bitched about it then and Mick would say, "You want me to slow down???"

 

[lil red rocket pilot]

My link

Thanks.



It didn't seem to bother him too much in the race thankfully

 

[somedamnwriter]

was super sleepy as the race was 430am my time...but the pass stoner made on lorenzo definitely woke me up. that was wicked, esp when replayed.



btw, re the bet...i think jumkie should write that essay.

 

[Keshav]

Hopper was the worlds 4th best rider in 2007 and nobody really cares. But Spies has won a race already and i think that will be more memorable, even though he'll likely finish the year in 5th. As for who else could be on that bike... there was and is no better choice.

Especially when you consider that Spies is regularly trashing Dovi and The Beast on the full-factory Hondas.

Lorenzo's first year on the factory Yamaha was more dramatic - but Spies is not injuring himself constantly

and is placing very consistently. He's a come from behind rider and will likely come into his own next year.

 

[povol]

Especially when you consider that Spies is regularly trashing Dovi and The Beast on the full-factory Hondas.

Lorenzo's first year on the factory Yamaha was more dramatic - but Spies is not injuring himself constantly

and is placing very consistently. He's a come from behind rider and will likely come into his own next year.

Which is amazing considering his stamina issue.

 

[BarryMachine]

btw, re the bet...i think jumkie should write that essay.

I'd agree. The only problem is that the loss is pretty moot isn't it??

I mean Jumkie would right an essay about clipping his toenails ....... just for fun

But then again if anyone here has seen the south park episode where the boys hired a Mexican guy to write their essay ........... perhaps Jumkies retort to all this should merely be .......



which "esse" do you want me to write?

 

[DRILL]

I agree with Pov... it's all ......... Watch some races from the "Golden Age" when Doohan was dominating. He ran away

with it all the time. People bitched about it then and Mick would say, "You want me to slow down???"

I can recall that,Kesh.