Laguna race thread

[Keshav]

Which is amazing considering his stamina issue.

Just think what he'd be capable of if his brain was getting sufficient nutrition. Trainers always

stress muscle strength, heart rate etc - but none of them know .... about what feeds the brain.

Robers and Lawson have said it a zillion times - the race isn't about balls, and the biggest forearms

- it's about mental acuity.



Simoncelli is the perfect example of this. He's fearless and physically strong. But mentally he's as

dull as a butter knife.

 

[povol]

Just think what he'd be capable of if his brain was getting sufficient nutrition. Trainers always

stress muscle strength, heart rate etc - but none of them know .... about what feeds the brain.

Robers and Lawson have said it a zillion times - the race isn't about balls, and the biggest forearms

- it's about mental acuity.



Simoncelli is the perfect example of this. He's fearless and physically strong. But mentally he's as

dull as a butter knife.

So do you think that if Sic ate plenty of steak it would make him a smarter racer?

 

[corinthian]

During the race weekend I got a bit fed up with the Spanish commentators replaying ad nauseam and talking about Rossi's move on Stoner in 2008. Now that this race is over and the comments are in, there is a more interesting connection between this year's Laguna Seca race and the 2008 race. And it comes from none other than Valentino Rossi.



Rossi in 2008, referring to his move on Stoner for 1st place: "This is racing".

Rossi in 2011, referring to Stoner's move on Lorenzo for 1st place: ""This is motorcycle racing".



The 2008 move seemed to define the season for Stoner, photos of the corkscrew became avatars and wallpapers and Rossi's phrase was repeated over and over in the forums. This year's repeatable phrase so far seems to be the ambition/talent one, and it was Casey who put the (far less spectacular) move of the day on. But this is racing, and I love it.



Links:

2008: Youtube vid: Stoner and Rossi post-Laguna Seca

2011: Soup: Post Race Debrief with Ducati's Valentino Rossi

 

[Keshav]

So do you think that if Sic ate plenty of steak it would make him a smarter racer?

He could eat a cow and still be as dumb as plank.





On the other hand - we have seen Spies races where he was at the front right from the start.

Just now - he's incapable of grasping the mechanics of making a good start and he's had

plenty of time to figure it out. How come???

 

[povol]

He could eat a cow and still be as dumb as plank.





On the other hand - we have seen Spies races where he was at the front right from the start.

Just now - he's incapable of grasping the mechanics of making a good start and he's had

plenty of time to figure it out. How come???

Uh, because he is not as good as Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa, and probably Rossi. There is no shame being the 4th -5th best rider in the world, and eating steak is not going to give him that little nudge that puts him up with the top 800cc GP riders. If the Yamaha 1000 is a good bike and not 100% electronic dependent, you may see Spies turn the corner to some better performances. It will be the beef of the bike, not beef he ingests that will make the difference.

 

[Jumkie]

I'm still trying to recover.



Good race, but the experience of watching and hanging out with this year's company is something I'm at a loss for words to describe. I invite you guys to visit the Laguna thread in the social boards. Kesh has already started posting a bit. It will be an excellent reason to read the forum during this race break.



I'll post more when I get a bit of sleep. Its been a whirlwind week, and its not over, Vegas coming up this weekend. So do yourself a favor, you can start HERE





(btw, all you armchair BBostrom haters, start sharpening your debate skills, cuz I'm coming for ya, homos).

 

[ScottP]

During the race weekend I got a bit fed up with the Spanish commentators replaying ad nauseam and talking about Rossi's move on Stoner in 2008. Now that this race is over and the comments are in, there is a more interesting connection between this year's Laguna Seca race and the 2008 race. And it comes from none other than Valentino Rossi.



Rossi in 2008, referring to his move on Stoner for 1st place: "This is racing".

Rossi in 2011, referring to Stoner's move on Lorenzo for 1st place: ""This is motorcycle racing".



The 2008 move seemed to define the season for Stoner, photos of the corkscrew became avatars and wallpapers and Rossi's phrase was repeated over and over in the forums. This year's repeatable phrase so far seems to be the ambition/talent one, and it was Casey who put the (far less spectacular) move of the day on. But this is racing, and I love it.



Links:

2008: Youtube vid: Stoner and Rossi post-Laguna Seca

2011: Soup: Post Race Debrief with Ducati's Valentino Rossi

‘corinthian’ I fully agree with you and the 2008 corkscrew overtake was sheer desperation and stupidity by VR and then we go to Jerez where the same thing happend and Stoner to his credit, responded in kind to VR…”You have something with your shoulder did you? Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent."



But coming back to Stoner and that he revealed after winning Sunday's US Grand Prix that he is fighting a nagging neck injury. He has been unable to maintain his strength-conditioning program in recent weeks because of an injury suffered in a high-speed crash in The Netherlands last month.



"I've had a scan and the doctors said it will be 2 1/2 months before my neck is right; it will take a long time to heal," he said.



But lets get back to the US GP and what an absolute corcker of a race! Congratulations to all 3 riders because this season will be a very good one if not the best!

 

[ScottP]

I agree entirely. Everyone favours the person they follow in sport to a degree...but you need to separate this bias or you risk looking foolish ala the RDB46 post. Delusional writing at its best and this guy aint no teenager. Just another bitter Rossi fanboy.



The fact Rossi is struggling this year is not a source of joy for me but the systematic dismantling of every myth perpetuated about Stoner's racecraft and skillset by the "haters" certainly is.



As we have heard ad infinitum over the recent past Stoner is only ever winning because of the Duke.....well that one has been soundly debunked....in fact he only ever won DESPITE the Ducati is the reality of the situation and puts his 2007 world championship in perspective considering his competition, points haul and age.



On top of this the following are now shown to be complete fallacies....



1. He cant overtake....hmm put on a clinic this weekend with some of the cleanest ballsiest moves I have ever seen. And in the past has also shown controlled aggression and amazing skills when passing other riders whilst at the same time maintaining a margin of safety for his competitors.



2. He can only win from the front....hmm how may holeshots has he had this year again????? He has made clinical passes in every race he has won this year to get to the front and once he does he usually stays there bar the previous 2 races before Laguna where he faded mid race.



3. He is only winning because of the Honda...well its a good bike but only roughly equal with the Yam I would say. And where exactly are the other factory pilots placed....they aint in front of CS are they!



4. He is the traction control king....debunked by multiple other riders, team managers and mechanics.



5. Cant setup a bike....well this one is a harder call but look to this weekend for evidence on the contrary. He has been on the bike for a shorter time than any other HRC rider yet manages to usually nail a good setup by raceday and often much quicker. He did so again this weekend unless of course he was "sandbagging"

6. Cant develop a bike....still unproven at this stage I would say and more data and time is needed to make a judgement call on this....but look at where the development genius of Rossi/JB has taken the Duc so far this year. I think many overestimate the influence of rider in this particular element of producing a good bike and engineers/designers are far more pivotal.



7. He has no racecraft....again the statements of the Duke needing to be over-ridden to maintain optimum tire temp saw him having to push the bike beyond its limit on occaision....a limit that probably required psychic ability to understand when the fickle front end of the bike was going to let go. This was the racecraft required to win on a Ducati unlike the Honda where he has other options.



8. He is a serial crasher....when CS has a front end he has confidence in he is super fast and usually very consistent without crashing - 2007 he had ZERO DNF's...this year he has had less than most. In 2006 he was on the worst bike on the grid and yet still managed a podium and a pole....which other rider has done the same on the LCR - answer NONE. He did crash a lot but only because he settles for nothing less than being the fastest and winning and it was his learning year...all the fast guys crash understanding the limits of the bike.



The other thing he rarely gets credit for is the respect he shows to his team. I also dont see him playing mind games with his competition preferring to let his riding do the talking. He has his personality flaws and at times has been a "...." but how many on here can say they are perfect examples of humanity?



I enjoy his brutal honesty and much prefer someone who wont sugar coat an answer to appease the masses....I think many people are incapable of warming to this type of personality and I often think of Jack Nicholson in the movie A Few Good Men when he said "you cant handle the truth" - in the age of spin doctoring media massaged PR he is a breath of fresh air.



Bottom line is when it comes to watching a guy thrash a bike around a motorcycle track at fearsome pace I cant think of a single other rider I would prefer to watch and after all isn't that the reason why we love this sport and go to the racetrack in the first place?

Great post 'Mr Squiggle' and I fully agree with all that you say and the LCR was the worst bike on the grid in 2006 and have a look at the results and the riders that have ridden the LCR since 2006 when Stoner was on it, what have they achieved??? Nothing!!!

 

[Keshav]

Uh, because he is not as good as Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa, and probably Rossi. There is no shame being the 4th -5th best rider in the world, and eating steak is not going to give him that little nudge that puts him up with the top 800cc GP riders. If the Yamaha 1000 is a good bike and not 100% electronic dependent, you may see Spies turn the corner to some better performances. It will be the beef of the bike, not beef he ingests that will make the difference.

Obtuse as ever Pov. It's not about beef or meat in particular. It's about possessing a level of body fat appropriate to

to one's physique. Much of the nutrients needed to power the brain are diverted to other purposes when the body

is in effect fasting. This is not a crack-pot theory. It's well known fact. I've been fasting regularly for years and

and have done the research. My wife is a former nutritionist and has done diet counceling for numerous atheletes.





Having a beefier bike won't solve Spies' problems. Everyone will have the same advantage in 2012.

 

[ScottP]

One other point 'Mr Squiggle' in ure 4[sup]th[/sup] point “He is the traction control king....debunked by multiple other riders, team managers and mechanics” in his interview earlier this year he has emphatically stated that he does not use TR, ABS etc as much as most riders and lets the bike give him the feel and control that he wants and needs to feel!

 

[povol]

I'm still trying to recover.



Good race, but the experience of watching and hanging out with this year's company is something I'm at a loss for words to describe. I invite you guys to visit the Laguna thread in the social boards. Kesh has already started posting a bit. It will be an excellent reason to read the forum during this race break.



I'll post more when I get a bit of sleep. Its been a whirlwind week, and its not over, Vegas coming up this weekend. So do yourself a favor, you can start HERE





(btw, all you armchair BBostrom haters, start sharpening your debate skills, cuz I'm coming for ya, homos).

Surely to god your not going to defend that debacle. If you do, its just proof that you like a good argument.

You sure your not Sicilian.

 

[povol]

Obtuse as ever Pov. It's not about beef or meat in particular. It's about possessing a level of body fat appropriate to

to one's physique. Much of the nutrients needed to power the brain are diverted to other purposes when the body

is in effect fasting. This is not a crack-pot theory. It's well known fact. I've been fasting regularly for years and

and have done the research. My wife is a former nutritionist and has done diet counceling for numerous atheletes.





Having a beefier bike won't solve Spies' problems. Everyone will have the same advantage in 2012.

And your as stubborn as ever.I proved you wrong, so you switched the conversation from muscle mass to mental well being.Then you went and got high all weekend and came back and talked about Spies being a come from behind rider, which totally contradicted your argument that Spies suffers from stamina problems, be it mental or physical. You might want to do a little fasting from the Indian hay for your own well being, if you know what i mean

 

[Bigguy]

Uh, because he is not as good as Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa, and probably Rossi. There is no shame being the 4th -5th best rider in the world, and eating steak is not going to give him that little nudge that puts him up with the top 800cc GP riders. If the Yamaha 1000 is a good bike and not 100% electronic dependent, you may see Spies turn the corner to some better performances. It will be the beef of the bike, not beef he ingests that will make the difference.

I don't think the 1000 will be Spies' savior, but outside of that I think you nailed it. Spies is simply not the rider that the top 3 or 4 are - hopefully we can ad 'yet', but time will tell.



No one in the US wants to hear it but one win does not an 'alien' make. It's being there every race. Spies needs to figure out starts and he still needs a couple of tenths to race with the big boys (er, little men?) every week - and he knows it.

 

[Keshav]

And your as stubborn as ever.I proved you wrong, so you switched the conversation from muscle mass to mental well being.Then you went and got high all weekend and came back and talked about Spies being a come from behind rider, which totally contradicted your argument that Spies suffers from stamina problems, be it mental or physical. You might want to do a little fasting from the Indian hay for your own well being, if you know what i mean

A. You haven't proved .....

B. Muscle is where much nutrient is stored - where's the contradiction?

C. If you're trying to brand me a party animal - you're really barking up the wrong tree. Moreover - you're a hypocrite as you yourself are a self-professed substance abuser. I on the other hand haven't touched hard drugs or hard liquor in over 22 years. Nothing wrong with me in that department.



D. If you think starving the body doesn't affect mental acuity - then your belief flies in the face of medical opinions held by every doctor in the world.

 

[povol]

I don't think the 1000 will be Spies' savior, but outside of that I think you nailed it. Spies is simply not the rider that the top 3 or 4 are - hopefully we can ad 'yet', but time will tell.



No one in the US wants to hear it but one win does not an 'alien' make. It's being there every race. Spies needs to figure out starts and he still needs a couple of tenths to race with the big boys (er, little men?) every week - and he knows it.

I am a huge Spies fan, as i am a huge Nicky fan, but i call em like i see em.

 

[mylexicon]

I don't think the 1000 will be Spies' savior, but outside of that I think you nailed it. Spies is simply not the rider that the top 3 or 4 are - hopefully we can ad 'yet', but time will tell.



No one in the US wants to hear it but one win does not an 'alien' make. It's being there every race. Spies needs to figure out starts and he still needs a couple of tenths to race with the big boys (er, little men?) every week - and he knows it.

Year 1 - development. Year 2 - wins. Year 3 - championship contender/victor



Where is Ben missing his marks? Only 5 people have won a dry race in the 800cc era. Four of them are aliens, one of them is trying to become an alien.



90% of motorcycle racing is between the ears, and in that regard, Spies is one of the best, if not the best, on the grid. The difference maker will not be the nature of the machine, but the fact that everything will be changing. Ground zero for everyone. New tires and new bikes for the entire grid.



There is nothing about Ben's circumstances that is objectionable from the standpoint of his fans. He's doing what he is supposed to do. I tend to think he is wasting his time b/c the 21L rule doesn't flatter his abilities which means he will always be fighting an uphill battle against the clowns in the MSMA, but it isn't my career. The legitimate concern about his performance is not alien or no alien, but that he tends to have bogey tracks like Estoril, Sachsenring, LeMans, and possibly a few more depending upon his performance during the last 8 rounds. He also has a tendency in the last 3 years, to score poor results in the early part of the season. Not a good trend, but why sweat it? Lorenzo had a problem crashing. Pedrosa still has a problem with injuries. One of the aliens rides outside of the top 5 while everyone blames his bike even though they've seen it win races. What reality are American fans uncomfortable discussing regarding Ben Spies?



Why would anyone worry about alien status anyway? The alien concept was reincarnated by tires and small capacity engines. For all we know, tires and small capacity engines could vanquish the concept again. In 2006, the only thing that mattered was finishing strong on spent tires. Trends are temporary.

 

[Austin]

(btw, all you armchair BBostrom haters, start sharpening your debate skills, cuz I'm coming for ya, homos).

I got this.

I almost forgot, and wish i could forget. Ben Bostrom was an embarassment today, to his country, his fans and his fellow American riders. HE ....... QUIT, and i hate a ....... quitter. I dont give a .... if he was challenging for a Superbike title, which he is not, he owed it to everyone to finish that race. He owed the LCR team who spent a ton of money to make this happen. He owed it to his fans, he owed it to his country. He thinks getting lapped is embarassing, wait till he see what is said about him in years to come

I'd be surprised if LCR spent much money additional at all. This was all about Rizoma. They opened up a new shop in Beverly Hills, I believe, somewhere in the LA area. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen them as title sponsor at all this season. Now, there have been rumblings of a wildcard ride at LCR for some time, but the question was always going to be "Who will foot the bill?". Rizoma has a new shop in LA, is there any more marketable rider in California than Ben Bostrom? Further, he's contracted to Michael Jordan, who's not afraid to put money into motorcycle racing. My understanding is he played some role in this deal. My guess is, and those more clever than I am can tell me if I'm wrong (by the way, Krop, you doing World Supers this weekend?), between Rizoma and Jordan, the costs of running Boz and a second crew were covered.

He wasnt an embarassment Povol, he is an embarassment. He always has been. Ive been saying it for years. Mladin said it 2 years ago and still nothing was made of it. He hasnt won or been competitive on anything for years despite being repeatedly given a top ride. Putting someone with his experience on a supersport bike against kids cutting their teeth 3 years ago was shamefull. He quit after he won his WSBK title. Hes been collecting a paycheck ever since. Did you ever really believe that he was better suited on that bike than Herrin or Eslick or Davies. The list goes on and on of guys with heart and talent that are stuck in support classes while he laughs his way to the bank.

The American scene in the GP world is slowly being phased out. The rest of the world looks on the AMA as a joke. A shining star like Benny Solis is getting overlooked for euro talent instead. Bennys 20 sec lead and 8second win is now overshadowed by the bigger story of how the last 2 AMA wildcards at Laguna moto gp quit.

I bet Jumkie that he would finish dead last. The stakes were that the loser would have to post an essay on why or why not Bostrom should be in racing.

What i saw today was of no surprise.

First of all, Mladin has long been a vocal detractor of the Bostroms. You can have your opinions on them, that's fine. But don't make Mladin out to be some objective judge of character. When EBoz was saying how down on power he was on the bored out ZX-7RR in 2003, Mladin said Boz should shut up and get his manufacturer to build a thou' like Suzuki did. Odd, I remember similar moans in 2002 from Mladin when the middle Hayden was kicking the .... out of him on a big, scary twin. Sad thing is, Suzuki made a twin. Apparently Mladin couldn't convince him to run it. But I digress.



Anyone who tells you Bostrom is still a championship contender in any of the major classes would be classified as delusional. However, few riders offer better bang for the buck in terms of sponsorship dollars and fan awareness. Team bosses don't do this for fun. Money has to be made. Bostrom makes teams money.



The American scene has been phased out for a number of years. How many guys are getting picked up in the past decade? Spies, Hayden, I'll give you Hopkins even though, technically, he was already in GP a decade ago. Ask any American rider, they'll tell you, the series has been overlooked since the early 90s. It's probably always been overlooked. Bostrom's performance will do nothing to that reputation. What hurts the reputation even more is the lack of information. You can't follow the AMA over here. You might get races a few weeks old, but it's tough to follow. Nobody knows what's going on. All they know is when World Supers showed up at Miller, Josh Hayes' time was only good enough for 19th. That's done to the spec, but people in Europe don't know that. I know for a fact that the state of the series is not held in high regard by at least one World Superbike team. And that was a solid six weeks before Ben did lap one on an RC212V.

So he never won a WSBK title? Are you ....... kidding me. I didnt watch racing back then and heard he actually won a reputable title. Wow. If thats true than its even worse. Hes spent a decade or so riding the wave of fortune by winning 5 frigging races. And here i believed he actually did something of worth in his career to garner so much respect.

Well, that explains everything. If you watched the 2001 World Superbike season, you would know why Ben Bostrom has fans all around the world. On his day, he made Troy Bayliss, Colin Edwards, Neil Hogdson, and Troy Corser look absolutely silly. He's a headcase, that's all. When his head's right, he's untouchable. The sad part about Ben is that his head's only been right on one fateful Sunday in 1999 and for a stretch of two months in 2001. He had offers to go MotoGP. He turned them down because he wanted to win the World Superbike championship. Say whatever you want about him, but the man has talent and it was on display for the world to see a decade ago. And the world took notice.

Unlike you guys, I was pretty sure that Bostrom was either going to bin it or bring it in early. Nothing could be worse for him than interfering in the championship race as a backmarker (something that happens in the AMA quite frequently). If you watched the race on SPEED, I believe he said that he brought it in b/c he was having problems with the shifter, and after losing 10-15 seconds in the gravel trap, he wasn't willing to be lap traffic for the remainder of the race.



He was being smart, imo. Don't bin it, and don't interfere with the championship. Gotta be within 2 seconds to avoid being lapped, Ben never made it.

As usual, Lex is the voice of reason. People always laugh when I say that. I'm serious.

Really. Do u think that his acceptance call with the LCR boss had those caveats in it. Do u think they would have green lighted his wildcard if they knew he would quit after 10 laps because he was too busy uncontending for an AMA race. LCR didnt hire him so he could use his judgement on when to quit. They hired him as a racer to run 32 laps. They didnt run a crew 7000 miles so he could ride less laps than Mamola did all weekend

Like I said before, LCR hired him because the guys who were footing the bill told them to.

They keep getting rides because they can get sponsor money, pure and simple.

I'm outraged! This has never, ever happened in the MotoGP paddock before. We should write Carmelo a letter...

Just to weigh in on the Bostrom debate (and I'm a non-American who wasn't really aware of his credentials) I think in a sense his team can be very satisfied with his weekend. Independently of what he's done on other bikes, he's brought money and attention to the team and has improved steadily throughout the weekend. Here in Spain a lot's been made of the fact that Toni's sponsors have been unhappy, and the ultimatum issued earlier in the season was on their orders. The single most important piece of information for me was this: Bostrom's fastest race lap was a 1'24.091 on a bike he hardly had time to get to know and with a crew he hadn't met till Friday, and all this on those Bridgestone tyres that continue to give even the top riders headaches. By comparison Toni Elias was only capable of a 1'24.200 in the race. When we look back on Toni's time in MotoGP I think we'll see this race not as the beginning of the end (he's never settled in on the GP bikes since they stopped custom-building his rear tyres) but as the first nail in the coffin. Why? Because Elias insists that it's the bike that's a fault, but now we have a rider who (unlike Elias) has never really won anything but is able to step in and beat Toni (over a single lap, and passing him in the race) with almost no preparation.



I feel bad for Elias, and it's never pleasant to see a rider suffer because of equipment issues rather than talent issues (eg almost anyone on a Ducati, Michelin riders in the last season with two tyre manufacturers, etc.). Where can the lad go now?

Very insightful. Thank you. And Pirellis were made for Elias. World Supers should be his next destination. Rumour is, and I'm probably stealing from Krop, that Aprilia could be setting up a satellite team that would house Biaggi's successor (potentially Haslam) and whoever can bring in money (Elias isn't bad at that). Someone will snatch him up.

 

[jazkat]

Over at crash.net, there are numerous Rossi fans who so wish that Rossi was back on the Yamaha. They are not saying they wish he was back on the Yamaha, but they are going to great lengths to convince everyone that Yamaha is "wasting" the bike that Spies rides and deserves a better rider, wink , wink. They dont come right out and say it, or who they think should be on it, but its obvious what they are thinking. One ..... even says Spies barely beat Dovi, who is riding a bike that handles like a camel. He obviously forgot that one of those camels had just won the race. They are a funny lot over there, some know a little about the sport, but in general, they are clueless bandwagon fans. Even though i partially agree that Spies position should be a little better, by years end, he will probably be about where most predicted he would be. In my day, being 4th best in the world on a given day at any activity was a good thing. What do you guys think, is Yamaha 'wasting' a factory bike on Spies. If so, who would you put on it. Dont say Rossi, he walked away from the bike, he could be riding it if he wanted to.

i wouldnt want him back on the yam to be honest.... he should hang around and tough it out, i wouldnt want to see him take an easy option and leave.

him and jb should hang around and provide feedback to prez and the engineers and help ducati bump out a good bike that is competative for all riders.



i just want more competators st the front.

 

[spooky]

‘corinthian’ I fully agree with you and the 2008 corkscrew overtake was sheer desperation and stupidity by VR and then we go to Jerez where the same thing happend and Stoner to his credit, responded in kind to VR…”You have something with your shoulder did you? Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent."



But coming back to Stoner and that he revealed after winning Sunday's US Grand Prix that he is fighting a nagging neck injury. He has been unable to maintain his strength-conditioning program in recent weeks because of an injury suffered in a high-speed crash in The Netherlands last month.



"I've had a scan and the doctors said it will be 2 1/2 months before my neck is right; it will take a long time to heal," he said.



But lets get back to the US GP and what an absolute corcker of a race! Congratulations to all 3 riders because this season will be a very good one if not the best!

Seriously getting sick of reading your extremely 1-sided pile of .... posts. That move Rossi made wasn't out of desperation, he'd made the move before on the first lap with no issues what so ever, when he went into the gravel he obviously got it slightly wrong, Stoner probably braked a little later than Rossi expected. Either way, on that day, Stoner got beaten. There were great moves by both riders. At Jerez, yup, Rossi got it wrong big time...he's human. Stoner was pissed but what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger and he's leading the championship even with that DNF.



Basically what i'm trying to say is pull your tongue out Caseys ... you sad, sad person.

 

[Anders]

Hayden talks about carbon chasis:

http://2wheeltuesday.com/2010/03/mo...-new-ducati-and-the-carbon-fiber-frame-video/

Rossi runs through his Yamaha bikes:

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/5552/after-the-hype-the-ducati-gp11-to-become-rossis-new-m1

Thanks for the links.I had already heard them but thanks for the effort.

On the carbonfibre vs aluminium swingarm,as they are both the same well proven mass or lenght to use,it's not so unique from the Japanese bikes.

But the frame Ducati is using,using the big engine in the middle of two CF parts (or trellis frame in steel) still using the engine as a frame is different.



If they made a carbon deltabox frame going round the sides of the engine for instance,they would get a longer area that can flex.And it can flex in the middle if wanted.That would be different to what they have and more like a Japanese bike.(Like the swingarm they are using)



There is tons posts on this though.