real shame about the situation in ducati..but i'd rather he stay with it and finish what he started.
Laguna race thread
- Thread starter MdubSTYLIE
- Start date
Whats the bet ????
Surely there has to be a double or nothing clause in there somewhere.
Ben Spies need to step up and lay down the hammer, instead of trying to play 'pretty'. It seems like he's purposely not giving 110% in it, just to have an excuse..... cuz he knows Lorenzo is just too fast for him. I'm tired of his 2-face personality trying to be politcaly correct in front of the cameras but we all know the dude is somewhat of an ... behind it. Time to stop being a wussy and man up. Lorenzo's making him his ......
I actually think he honestly believes this .... too
We all have our biases, but the really amusing thing is to see such people argue exactly the opposite about the same set of circumstances depending on the identity of the rider, and the lack of appreciation that such posts are a source of enjoyment for stoner fans as casey and circumstances prove that almost everything they have said about him, or his riding anyway, is wrong.
Even after suffering several lean years as a stoner fan, particularly one who participates in a fan forum, I am just about over the whole retribution is all thing, and even my amusement at how much stoner's current success is annoying the crashnet teenagers is not enough to make me wade through pages and pages of illogical and illiterate posts on that site.
One thing they do say that is true is that stoner hasn't won the championship yet, and I was beginning to have doubts after his apparent inability to ride out recent races, to which they seem to have found some sort of solution at laguna seca.
I have no clue and while I was lurking around on motomatters they had an article up on the new superbike that is going to have the gp inspired chassis but in aluminum, with them saying it was going to even be cheaper to mass produce than the trellis, and that it was tested long ago on the GP bike, so they can obviously get aluminum and they have something in place to cast it or machine it. I don't remember them ever testing that on the GP bike? Why use CF if you can already meet the minimum weight limit, it's like trying to solve a weight problem that doesn't exist? So it appears they are now moving in a direction that involves two materials they say they aren't familiar with, aluminum and CF. Being a smaller company they should make a massive investment in the technology behind one or the other, and have a clear direction for the future. I say aluminum, much less variables and faster turn around times than composites plus it's what's going to be on the road bikes. The Japanese will never let the rules move in a direction where we see the need for a CF frame anyway.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
I agree entirely. Everyone favours the person they follow in sport to a degree...but you need to separate this bias or you risk looking foolish ala the RDB46 post. Delusional writing at its best and this guy aint no teenager. Just another bitter Rossi fanboy.
The fact Rossi is struggling this year is not a source of joy for me but the systematic dismantling of every myth perpetuated about Stoner's racecraft and skillset by the "haters" certainly is.
As we have heard ad infinitum over the recent past Stoner is only ever winning because of the Duke.....well that one has been soundly debunked....in fact he only ever won DESPITE the Ducati is the reality of the situation and puts his 2007 world championship in perspective considering his competition, points haul and age.
On top of this the following are now shown to be complete fallacies....
1. He cant overtake....hmm put on a clinic this weekend with some of the cleanest ballsiest moves I have ever seen. And in the past has also shown controlled aggression and amazing skills when passing other riders whilst at the same time maintaining a margin of safety for his competitors.
2. He can only win from the front....hmm how may holeshots has he had this year again????? He has made clinical passes in every race he has won this year to get to the front and once he does he usually stays there bar the previous 2 races before Laguna where he faded mid race.
3. He is only winning because of the Honda...well its a good bike but only roughly equal with the Yam I would say. And where exactly are the other factory pilots placed....they aint in front of CS are they!
4. He is the traction control king....debunked by multiple other riders, team managers and mechanics.
5. Cant setup a bike....well this one is a harder call but look to this weekend for evidence on the contrary. He has been on the bike for a shorter time than any other HRC rider yet manages to usually nail a good setup by raceday and often much quicker. He did so again this weekend unless of course he was "sandbagging"
6. Cant develop a bike....still unproven at this stage I would say and more data and time is needed to make a judgement call on this....but look at where the development genius of Rossi/JB has taken the Duc so far this year. I think many overestimate the influence of rider in this particular element of producing a good bike and engineers/designers are far more pivotal.
7. He has no racecraft....again the statements of the Duke needing to be over-ridden to maintain optimum tire temp saw him having to push the bike beyond its limit on occaision....a limit that probably required psychic ability to understand when the fickle front end of the bike was going to let go. This was the racecraft required to win on a Ducati unlike the Honda where he has other options.
8. He is a serial crasher....when CS has a front end he has confidence in he is super fast and usually very consistent without crashing - 2007 he had ZERO DNF's...this year he has had less than most. In 2006 he was on the worst bike on the grid and yet still managed a podium and a pole....which other rider has done the same on the LCR - answer NONE. He did crash a lot but only because he settles for nothing less than being the fastest and winning and it was his learning year...all the fast guys crash understanding the limits of the bike.
The other thing he rarely gets credit for is the respect he shows to his team. I also dont see him playing mind games with his competition preferring to let his riding do the talking. He has his personality flaws and at times has been a "...." but how many on here can say they are perfect examples of humanity?
I enjoy his brutal honesty and much prefer someone who wont sugar coat an answer to appease the masses....I think many people are incapable of warming to this type of personality and I often think of Jack Nicholson in the movie A Few Good Men when he said "you cant handle the truth" - in the age of spin doctoring media massaged PR he is a breath of fresh air.
Bottom line is when it comes to watching a guy thrash a bike around a motorcycle track at fearsome pace I cant think of a single other rider I would prefer to watch and after all isn't that the reason why we love this sport and go to the racetrack in the first place?
Joined Apr 2011
636 Posts | 26+
Gold Coast
He does still have 31 dnfs to his name
I've just been having a quick look back at the stats of the ducati, and Loris Capirossi had a fair old crack at the duke aswell, I just sort of forgot about it.
If you guys remember, he nearly took the gp6 (trellis) to the WC, just being pipped by VR and NH, and the same year Troy Bayliss took the wildcard win at Valencia. 2007 wasnt so successful for him, having 4 dnfs, but he managed to get it on the podium a couple of times. How quick we forget huh?
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Thanks for the link Spooky...that was a good read
I thought his responses were quite frank, respectful and very complimentary. Maybe that dose of humble pie he is digesting has done him some good
I have a feeling he probably regrets some of the comments he has made about the other riders in the recent past and this was his way of extending the olive branch.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Looks like the Laguna Gang is getting their money's worth. Hope they aren't passed out in the RV, missing the action.
Not a chance Compa. We were all out on Jumkie's Rock where you can see the 90% of the track - taking an occasional sprint
over the hill to watch the action in the corkscrew. The running up and down the hills has left the crew with calf muscles
that Schwartzenegger would envy.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Jeez your easily pleased.
Germany was a much better race.
Were you watching the same as the rest of us?
From where we were watching - it was a great race! The crowds were really into it. Other than Roger, Bonnie, the kids, Willski, Arrib and his lovely charge threatening to storm off and go home after Crutchey crashed, the only negative moment I can recall was the collective moaning and sooking from all the sore losers when Stoner took the checkered flag.
Oh! Almost forgot. One other bloke was looking a bit chagrined at the end. Twas Arrib as he handed $10.00 American to Chops... who bet on STONER!
I think they built the 2009 bike in aluminium and cf, and decided to go with cf, so perhaps casey is due some blame for that; it was one day's testing or so though, and I am not convinced cf is the major problem. The 2009 bike as stoner consistently said was no bad thing when he was healthy, and did not have the random front-end instability problems of the gp 10 and its successors.
He does still have 31 dnfs to his name
He had zero race dnfs in 2007, (or 2009 for that matter, he famously put the bike down in the warmup once), and one race dnf thus far his year due to no error of his.
So I agree with squiggle if he has a good enough bike he does not crash much; it is hard to dispute that he will crash trying to win on bikes not really capable of doing so though. In the latter situation he can't win as he was also criticised not least by rossi for riding conservatively for 4ths and 5ths last year for a few races after his offs early in the season; 5th was his lowest actual finish btw.
What a great race by the top 3, edge of seat stuff when Stoner decided to drop the hammer.
What stood out to me was the podium celebrations. Never before have I seen the 3 place getters clink their champagne bottles with each other after the victory spray. I thought that showed real class & the respect these 3 have for each other at the moment. They have all been much maligned by supportors of one particular rider over the past few years & I think that they are enjoying there time in the sun without Rossi's gamesmanship impacting on what they are doing on the racetrack. They race hard & fair, don't try playing "mind games" with each other & if they don't win, they are first to offer genuine congratualtions to each other at the end of the race. Lorenzo used to be a big headed ...., but now I would rate him as one of my favourites. On the weekend he had a huge off, which would have been a good excuse for his inability to mount a counter attack against Stoner, but he flat out said "I wasn't quick enough, end of story". I would like it if Pedro could just crack a smile occasionally, but that might be asking too much.
What stood out to me was the podium celebrations. Never before have I seen the 3 place getters clink their champagne bottles with each other after the victory spray. I thought that showed real class & the respect these 3 have for each other at the moment. They have all been much maligned by supportors of one particular rider over the past few years & I think that they are enjoying there time in the sun without Rossi's gamesmanship impacting on what they are doing on the racetrack. They race hard & fair, don't try playing "mind games" with each other & if they don't win, they are first to offer genuine congratualtions to each other at the end of the race. Lorenzo used to be a big headed ...., but now I would rate him as one of my favourites. On the weekend he had a huge off, which would have been a good excuse for his inability to mount a counter attack against Stoner, but he flat out said "I wasn't quick enough, end of story". I would like it if Pedro could just crack a smile occasionally, but that might be asking too much.
The aluminum monocoque will be much cheaper than the steel trellis probably b/c of the number of welds.
The reason they don't use aluminum is straight forward, imo. It's the explanation Suppo gave years ago. AFAIK, though I've never been inside the Bologna factory, a majority of Ducati components are sourced from outside suppliers. It's not uncommon for cars or bikes, but if you open up a Ducati engine, you'd be surprised to find quite a few Japanese parts. The Japanese are world leaders in metal foundry technology and manufacturing so if Suppo said Ducati can't get MotoGP-grade aluminum the way they want it, who would be the first people to call BS? It would be like faking a back problem to get a few days leave from secretarial duties at the chiropractor's office. Pick a better excuse b/c it won't fly. I've never thought of the Italians as particularly clever liars, but they must be better than that?
Min weight isn't a problem, but placement of the weight is a big deal. Reducing the weight of the frame and swingarm allows Ducati to put mass where they want it. Furthermore, the L-engine layout is long from front to back so Ducati are keen to have an unconventional headstock/airbox design in order to move the engine as far forward as possible and lengthen the swingarm.
Imo, the situation is open and shut. Ducati have supply/manufacturing issues with MotoGP-caliber aluminum frame technologies. The problem that doesn't need to exist is the L-engine layout, and desmo has perhaps become a bit of a hindrance compared to modern F1 pneumatic systems. On these design attributes, Ducati will not compromise, hence they invent new problems to solve problems that need not exist. Whether or not these design elements actually constitute a problem is in limbo anyway. When Ducati were winning, steel trellis, L-engine, and desmo were all big benefits. In 2008, despite body-slamming the Japanese, Ducati suddenly changed course. I wonder what might have changed to bring Ducati into this current state?
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Now that we have entered the post-Rossi era, -- or at least are having an extended preview of it, -- we see that it is going to be Stoner and Lorenzo battling it out, closely followed by Pedrosa, and then Spies, Dovi, Sic as occasional spoilers.
Stoner and Lorenzo have matured and both have the potential for winning multiple titles in the next four-five years.
I think Casey is going to win more than Jorge.
Stoner and Lorenzo have matured and both have the potential for winning multiple titles in the next four-five years.
I think Casey is going to win more than Jorge.
Joined Apr 2011
1K Posts | 87+
Pangea
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Oh well thats all well and good!! but what if you put up with all the bopper .... for so long you are now stuck in "retribution mode"!
Dear Mikey,
I have a problem ......... I am stuck in a Bopper retribution cycle and can't seem to break the habit,
What should I do
Barrymachinonumous
Its a bit like that but to be honest, every time I make the effort to lay off them ......... some bopper comes out and just makes the most idiotic statement ...... and it just has to be retribrutalized!!!
